ChicagoX

Jangy, I was concerned with following the proper channels. I wanted everyone involved to be able to do "the right thing" here.

It was the delay in any reply, followed by the broken promises, that dragged out the schedule. CPT and LET stayed late (after 11pm) on the two nights leading up to the event, wrenching on and tuning my car for the new pulley. We simply ran out of time.

LET offered to have a one-off pulley made for me, but I declined. Their near-heroic efforts in tuning my car was enough for me. After Erick informed me that ASP had one, I bought it.

VRP failed to supply original torque specs for the outer ring bolts, and it took two days for a reply on that. Add three weeks of stonewalling after the issue was disclosed, and you get me missing my event. Somewhere towards the end of that, I got fed up and ordered the ASP.

To besmirch my honesty and character with your above post shows me that you're no better than the other nut-swingers. What compensation did YOU receive for the merciless thrashing of your car by VRP? Free parts? Money?

I've been nothing but honest in my characterization of the situation.

Rather than blind faith, I have 30+ crank pulley installs as evidence of 'skillz'
For those who can count, that's more installs than VRP pulleys EXIST.

Good luck with your TT project, Jangy.

jangy

Didn't know I was getting a TT, but whatever floats your boat. Funny how I am the biased one here, given the passion I see from your end. Like I said in the thread where the rift started with me, I have never been in any way sponsored or associated with VRP. I bought the Airbox and pulley in the group buys and paid exactly what everyone else did. I gave them my car because I trusted Vadim, not VRP. I wanted to prove to everyone that the right way to tune is NOT to revert back to an old file but to figure out the codes and improve on them. I know all the East coasters think that was already dealt with by Kleeman, but it just wasn't a proper fix in my mind (using an old flash). My ECU tune took a great deal more time than Powerchip / VRP assumed and they went back on an offer to not charge me for the tune and I paid $800. Then, I was already doing my own TB from the '07 SL55 for $1200 so VRP matched it to keep me all VRP components. That is the only discount i got. Since then, the car has been back for a bunch of times to get the HEMs made and tested and is going back next week for the final prep and tune (I think). I think all the parts will be on and it will get dyno'd, etc. As far as me even keeping the HEM, I have NOT YET PAID and told Victor that I MAY NOT BUY IT.
So, just to be clear....No money from VRP, barely a discount, and no other special treatment. So, why did I allow my car to go through that? OK, here is the deal. As I said, I trully trust Vadim with tuning. He knows me well and knows what I expect out of my car and from my tuner. Because he has always gone the extra mile for me, I am willing to let him "use" my car.

Sorry for the OT here. I never meant to divert your progress so i will not post in this thread unless it relates directly to the topic. We all have our loyalties and allegiances and honestly, I like the fact that you guys have a strong relationship with your tuner and expect no less than for you to stand up for them. Just don't be surprised when someone else does it for theirs.

SLK55R

Seriously anyone else find this as hilarious as I do???

ScottCLS55

When will someone would design an upper pulley, then there would be no more drama.

SLK55R

I thought MKB was upper pulley. Of course they are God awful expensive.

crazeazn

this thread reeks.

bfnnrgn

I looked over all the accessory pulleys, they're fine. I stopped by Oreilly auto parts and they had a supercharger belt K080525 if memory serves me right. I put that on and it's as quiet as a mouse now. The old belt only had about 3k miles on it before it started squealing, it was the one that came with the kit.

I wonder if the wobble is wearing the supercharger belt as it would be more pronounced there due to the larger diameter as well as being the furthest away from the mounting.

Having it checked by Sunil isn't a good option as Houston is a 3 1/2 hour drive one way just to have it looked at.

bfnnrgn

Please don't take what I said out of context and use it to point fingers.

dc63er

hey chicago

i feel your pain BELIEVE ME. but what does the outer ring bolts specs have to do with the keyway damage?

but if your crank is fine and there is no damage to the keyway on the crank YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT...

vic didnt send you a new pulley which you say you didnt want anyway so again your good. BUT THEY GAVE YOUR MONEY BACK. or most of it like you said. im sure youll get the rest if that is the case.

so if all this is the case you are back to square 1 like it never happened while only being inconvienced which is the risk we all take when we mod our cars...

i can hear the frustration through your posts bro.

Fast55

I have to agree with this. Essentially, there are 2 possibilities:

1. The pulley is defective.
2. The installation was incorrectly performed.

The third possibility is not being considered, and that is, the design is flawed. The fact that many of these are in service and working correctly precludes the third possibility. I think that if the dimensions of the pulley are correct in all respects (obviously excluding the damaged area), the only other causal factory for a defective pulley is that the material used is not of the correct strength/hardness.

Vadim/Victor, do you intend to make a thorough dimensional AND material analysis of the pulley? If it passes these tests, I think there is nothing else to assume except that the installation is at fault. Would anyone disagree with that?

I ask these questions to determine what exactly happened, not blame anyone involved. My reasoning is that like others have stated, I don't believe that there are zero "wobblers" out there, even on stock pulleys. I'm running the Kleemann pulley that was installed by Evo, and guess what, it wobbles. It's not very noticeable, but it's there, and the K pulley is based on a stock MB center with a larger out ring ala ASP, but pinned rather than welded. It's been on the car for 7K+ miles and I've never heard a squeel or replaced the belt, but not having seen the stock pulley running on the car, I wonder if it did or did not wobble?? Is it possible that the tolerances of the original pulley are not as exact as they should be? If the stock dimensions of the pulley bore and keyway aren't "perfect", does this mean that fully aftermarket designs that use these dimensions are also then flawed and possibility #3 is the root cause of this?? I have a headache now.

SLK55R

From Vadim's message above (regarding aluminum pullies) It doesn't seem like he agrees that hardness of the material is at fault. I'm watching this very carefully since the Crank Pulley I just got is also made of aluminum



I think the real question here is not if a stock pulley wobbles at all or if your Kleemann Pulley wobbles at all but if either the stock pulley or the kleemann pulley have been damaged. Since they wobble does that mean that they have similar damage as the VRP ones seen in the photo above?


BTW just because someone has done an install 30 times does not mean no mistakes can be make. I'd be really curious if the installer did both pulleys around the same time or if he had done any pulleys inbetween?

ChicagoX

I agree with that statement as well. I personally witnessed two more pulley installs while I was tuning my car - one ASP on an E55, and a LET on a C32.

I'm glad someone else is thinking about "option 3" as well.


dc63er: During the install of the VRP pulley, it must be disassembled to be installed with the provided tool. The outer ring bolts on with secondary hardware, and the torque specs weren't provided initially. It took another two days of sitting in the bay before a response was received. Both LET and CPT were subsequently called out for potentially not torquing the bolts down, even though LET had nothing to do with the install. The litany of finger-pointing that followed is what truly let me down as a customer.

I am frustrated, yes. I also don't want anyone else to enjoy the same issues.

JAYCL600

Wayne,

I saw you mentioned earlier you have not been made whole with regard to your refund. Has this been taken care of?
Jay

LazyE55

I think the real question here is not if a stock pulley wobbles at all or if your Kleemann Pulley wobbles at all but if either the stock pulley or the kleemann pulley have been damaged. Since they wobble does that mean that they have similar damage as the VRP ones seen in the photo above?


BTW just because someone has done an install 30 times does not mean no mistakes can be make. I'd be really curious if the installer did both pulleys around the same time or if he had done any pulleys inbetween?[/QUOTE]


Awhile back ago i had found out that my Kleeman pulley was wobbling and it got me worried..so we removed the pulley and found the exact same notch where the key is supposed to slide in..it looked like a mis-install but what was surprising was that my stock pulley had the same notch my car has approximately 78,xxxx miles and i have no belt shreading, noise, no leaks or unusual noises coming from the bottom of the block or anything for the past 50,xxx plus miles. So im guessing that some of these cars come with the wobble from factory...maybe a few

ChicagoX

No.

A week later, LET (not me) was informed that the holdback was due to the install tool not being returned. Since it's at the shop, I told them to send it back with the other failed pulley. Now, I hear that they don't want the pulley back, so I'm in limbo. I guess I need to drive to Melrose Park, Illinois from Michigan, get the $15 tool, ship it back to VRP at my expense, then patiently wait for the rest of the funds.

Whatever. My time is worth a bit more than the remainder of the refund - it just is further evidence of how this deal was handled.

bfnnrgn

Hmmm, I don't understand why they would have taken the pulley apart to install it. I watched Sunil install mine and he did not have to take the bolts out to put it in. Why did they say they needed to dismantle it to install it?

Also when I first noticed the belt squeal I emailed Victor directly and the first thing he suggested was to check the outer bolts. He replied with the torque specs within about 30 min of my initial email. That was over a month ago. No problem with the bolts were found though.

Fast55

[/B][/B]Awhile back ago i had found out that my Kleeman pulley was wobbling and it got me worried..so we removed the pulley and found the exact same notch where the key is supposed to slide in..it looked like a mis-install but what was surprising was that my stock pulley had the same notch my car has approximately 78,xxxx miles and i have no belt shreading, noise, no leaks or unusual noises coming from the bottom of the block or anything for the past 50,xxx plus miles. So im guessing that some of these cars come with the wobble from factory...maybe a few[/QUOTE]

I looked, and there is zero damage to the stock pulley. The keyway and bore look perfect, but again, I never saw it running on the car. I did look at the Kleemann pulley again, and it's only a slight wobble and I don't know how it could be possible, but if anything it's maybe slightly less noticeable than it was immediately after the install. I wonder if anyone has ever actually put a micrometer to the crank snout and/or keyway to see how that compares to the measurements of the factory pulley????

ChicagoX

There are 2 ways to install the pulley. You can jam a breaker bar into the flexplate (and risk damage to flexplate and bellhousing), or you can (correctly) use the factory-style tool that holds the pulley. This tool, shipped with the kit, requires dismantling of the pulley to utilize it.

If they didn't want the pulley dismantled, they shouldn't have shipped a tool that requires dismantling of the pulley for use.

al@cpt

The pulley must be held to torque the crank bolt.

SLK55R

So did you get a new pulley or just throw back on the damaged one?

LazyE55

I contacted Kleeman but since it was over the 1 year warranty they said there's nothing they can do for me. The pulley was not damaged as i thought it was. I put on another stock pulley(not mine) and it was wobbling. So i just put back the Kleeman pulley back on with the new crank bolt. Still wobbles....but not worried

vrus

Wayne,

I want to add a few more facts here because I see that alot of misinformation is being posted now.

When the problem was reported, Erick from LET called Vadim. He told Vadim about the problem. Vadim right away asked for 1) Pictures 2) The original Crank Bolt. NO ONE sent anything.. no pics, no bolt, nothing. When Vadim told Erick this he basically waited until the information came back to take action.

What did you guys expect him or me, or us to do? We got nothing but a verbal on the phone saying the pulley was bad and that the "Customer wants his money back"..

Dont you think its fair that we get the information we asked for so we can review it and determine what happened?

So, the delay of 2 weeks or whatever it was before you actually called and spoke to me directly was not our fault. As far as Vadim knew, he was waiting on you guys to send the info back.. I didnt have the details of what was going on because Erick was dealing with Vadim directly.

Once you called me directly and we spoke, I took action immediately, sending out the refund still without seeing a picture or getting the pulley back or having the original bolt.

Now that I have the pulley back, its my belief that it was damaged during install. There is nothing wrong with the way the pulley is manufactured.

Chris @ C2 Designs installed these, Vadim installed them , Sunil @ Motorwerks installed them, Satish @ Motorwerks in Detroit installed them and there are a bunch of other people (MB Techs and dealers) that have installed these pullies without fail.. NO ONE has had this problem.

Again, more misinformation... Who is telling you this stuff?

I refunded LET 100% of THEIR PURCHASE PRICE OF THE PULLEY. The pulley is what was sent back and that is what I refunded. In fact the Dealer price of the pulley included the installation tool, which i never received, but they were still refunded for it.

They bought 5 pullies at the same time. On their original invoice they were charged SHIPPPING. When Jerry looked at the bottom line figure on the invoice he took the whole thing and divided by 5 to get a single unit price which is not accurate because that took into account the shipping and waterpump. MAKE SENSE NOW?

Bottom line is, they were not refunded $50 worth because I thought you KEPT the Waterpump pulley.

On top of all this, LET is the original vendor who sold you the pulley, so if you were so upset about it, and you, LET and CPT were so sure it was a bad pulley, why didnt you just get your refund directly from LET and let them deal with me on their own time??

LET was NOT WILLING TO give you anything back unless I first gave them a refund for their purchase so the only reason you got back what you did was because I forwarded them their refund before I even received anything from you guys.

And for that I get these bitter posts and misinformation being spread.

How many vendors have you dealt with that refund money on product sight unseen with just a verbal word that the product is bad? Especially on something like a crank pulley where most of the time its an installation issue.

vrus

Marcus,

You've always been considered a friend in my eyes also, and I am sorry you had to go through this.

I think you know my personality pretty good now from dealing and talking to me over these years.

You know that if I truly believed the pulley was bad or there was an issue, I would admit it, put the tail between my legs and apologize for the problems and inconvenience...

I truly feel there was a mistake made during install.

I truly feel that something happened and someone tried to cover up the damage with a black paint/substance.

Everyone can have a bad day.. If a shop has installed 30, 40, 50 or 100 pullies, it doesnt mean someone can't make a mistake. We are all human.

The shop being CPT is even more delicate for me because I've never heard a bad thing about them. I know you guys have all had great things to say about CPT and I agree that they are a good shop, but, it doesnt mean the tech doing the install couldn't have made a mistake, got scared and didnt want to admit to everyone that he screwed up.

You really can honestly look at those pictures and say that the hardened steel snout on the back of the pulley was damaged during the torque procedure?? I just dont see that happening.

There would be a concave structure formed on the frontside or backside of the pulley if it was warped during torque. There is ZERO damage to the face or rear of the pulley.

The only way the keyway could get chewed up like that is if the key is not fully inserted and the bolt was torqued down.

I Like Soup

I just went outside and took a picture of my stock pulley, which was removed 5/22/08 and replaced with a red VRP pulley. My stock pulley also has the same notch that Fast55 mentioned and the damage apparently on the pulley being discussed in this thread. I also took a short video of my pulley wobble, which is ever so slightly there. This was installed at VRP at Vadim's shop in Costa Mesa and the car has been pulling like a freight train (and after a good wash and waxing, I now ingest 911 Turbos, M6s, etc... ). Since belt squeal was mentioned,...the belt squeal I have asked about a couple of times and Jangy gave me a heads up about, is subsiding with time...go figure. I have both to email if anyone is interested. I hope this information continues to confuse everyone.

Also, I would like to point out, if you buy a product at Walmart and are unhappy with it, you take it back and get refunded from the place you bought it from, not hunt down the actual manufacturer (hell, which would probably be in China from my example...LOL!). While I think the question about the pulley integrity/install is still being debated, I would like to say LET's customer service should be questioned as they didn't pony up a refund immediately and simply deal with VRP. Or maybe, we are all just so in touch with each other that the lines get blurred.

bfnnrgn

When Sunil did mine he removed a plate on what I believed was the transmission(don't hold me to that). By screwing in a bolt or something he was able to prevent the crank from spinning and installed the pulley with ease. Nothing was attached to the pulley and no dismantling necessary. I watched the whole thing.