Does anyone have information on this type of modification? Seems the cryo fuel bar chills the gasoline providing a colder fuel charge. Wondering if this will help in chilling my gas and getting me a few extra ponnies. Any input is appreciated.

http://www.1tail.com/sa/p/CryO2_Cryo...ished_-6AN.htm

This tuner also seems to have it...Vath, they are a german tuner ad include it in their power package.

http://www.vaeth.com/kraftstoffkuehl...le.php?lang=EN

 

I was looking into it for the engine bay and especially the SC cooler.

 

Unless you are running a CO2 tank, which this probably runs on, your are going to expend more energy pumping the chiller than gaining in HP. It's basically like saying the AC system is used to cool fuel instead of the cabin. There is no net gain here.

 

I disagree.

A fuel cooler is the same principle as an intercooler, it just cools the other half of the combustion charge, which is the fuel itself. If you were right, then nobody would ever use an intercooler either, since there would be no net gain there either. This clearly isn't the case.

It's well known that cold gas contains a pretty significant (up to 5% or 6%) increase in BTUs, so if you can figure out a way to inject fuel at, say, 50 or 60 degrees, instead of 100 degrees like normal, then it stands to reason that you'd get a noticeable increase in power.

The cooling apparatus may suck up a couple hp, just as an a/c would, but that's about it it. If you get a 5% gain on a 500hp engine, you've just picked up 25hp. Minus the 5hp to run the chiller, you still have a net gain of 20hp. And I think those are conservative numbers.

You gotta remember that a lot of things that would make no sense on most cars start to make a lot of sense when you have a motor that turns 500hp. If you can eke out even a 2%-5% gain, then it translates into something noticeable on that type of application.

 

+1...I think if you could cool the fuel, there are definitely gains

 

Someone already experimented with the cryo bar setup. Net gain was 0. The liquid moves too fast through the lines for it to have any effect.

 

I think that had more to do with the shortcomings of whatever particular system he designed, vs. the theory behind chilled fuel generally.

Top fuel draggers have sworn by chilled gas for 10 years. Granted, they can't have the weight of an active chiller system onboard, so they have a cryo tank that gets plugged into a gas bottle when the car's parked, but the principle is still the same.

I really think there are definitely gains to be had with chilled fuel.

 

Thanks Bro!, I will definitely give this a try. I will buy a cryo fuel bar and add to fuel lines to see if any gains.

 

call frank

 

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/carnot.html

The gasoline only plays the part of adding the heat to the system. The intercooler and supercharger play a direct role on "P" and "T".

The only benefit I can see to chilling the gas is that you get more fuel to burn in a given volume so your fuel delivery system can put more fuel through the injectors.

But the difference is small. For every five-degree (Celsius) change in temperature, figure about a 0.5-percent change in density.

In a dragster pumping gas as fast as they do, it probably makes much more difference. In our cars it ptobably makes little difference.

 

I have been calling frank and texting him since thursday...no answer, he is MIA...lol!

 

this is assuming that you are going to have something like an A/C compressor to cool the fuel.

One of my best friends has a c5 Zo6 Vette, he's replace the stock braided line with a coiled copper line in it's place and that is sealed in a insulated 3/4 gallon resorvior with a drain and a 2'' cap opening at the top.

grated with the setup he has, it's most useful at the strip. or on a dyno where you can put new water and ice in it between runs.

on the dyno he's picked up 16rwhp. with the chilled fuel.

just fuel for thought.

 

That sounds perfect!!, trust me those lines will freeze once the cryo hits it!!, lol!!

 

I recently asked for info about fuelcooler. Vaeth only say:

" the fuelcooler with out ECU is not working because of the seriel datas.

The Smallest Kit is:
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
ECU - Fuelcooler - Headder - cams
45 - 55 HP
55 - 65 Nm


The secount Kit is:
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
ECU - Fuelcooler - Headder - cams and pulley kit
85 - 100 HP
90 - 110 Nm
"

indeed, I can't understand why they say that fuelcooler needs the ecu remap !


this picture partially shows it installed
maybe that reservoir is connected to the A/C line ?

btw... we should use that same isolating material (maybe something made of PU+Alu normally used in A/C lines) for wrapping our air box

 

anyone looked at water-methanol for cooling and octane boost? for example-
http://www.snowperformance.net/index.php

 

I had the same kit back when I had an E55, the performance gains were minimal, It was also comfusing at times. If you get a good set up, I am sure it wil definitely help in summer time.

 

Fuel coolers are a good addition to many high performance cars.. I've run them on my Corvettes and on my Porsches.

Depending on the fuel cooler method used, when you lower the temperature of the fuel you are changing its density, and therefore will change the A/F curve. This is the reason why you need a remap to take advantage of a fuel cooler..

 

so,.. no auto-adapt !

 

I am planning on using this on my CL. Will this change my A/F ratio? Doesn't MB make these AMG's super rich of the factory? Also will the ECU adapt to the changes or not?

 

Hey guys... 1st post here, was searching for data that might back up my claim that a fuel cooler will provide a noticeable bump in power depending on the car & power to weight ratio and ran across this thread... I thought I'd add to it...

I personally have installed 4 cooler setups, 2 in bmw's, 1 dodge ram truck and most recently my 1.8t jetta (commute car) Every time I've installed one I have noticed a benefit, the 2 bmw's were 3 series with 1 being an m3. On the 325 my goal was to be able to run a 93 octane program (chip) on 91 fuel since that's all I have in CA. did a flex-a-lite cooler and insulated the fuel rails with insulating tape. worked awesome each time i did it. on the m3 I notice a good bump in low/mid power, hard to tell with the butt dyno if there was any improvement on the upper end.

Most recently I did the Jetta with a 4 pass trans cooler but did not wrap the rails until yesterday, worked great w/o the rails wrapped. I could get off the freeway, pop the hood and grab the rail and it would be nice and cold. Once I wrapped it the performance intown is better off the line at lights. with it being a turbo the 1st gulp of air is really hot and power sucked (pre-cooler). now with the cooler & rails wrapped it is noticeably improved. and FWIW, I live in the Sacramento area and summertime temps can get into the upper 90's, low 100's often.

anyways, just thought I'd share the experience.

 

I don't have any raw data, but I do know that colder fuel makes power. This setup has been around for quite some time and used by muscle cars. Here is a pic of the one I had purchased before. pop a brick of dry ice in this baby and hit the track!




I had this setup and never got around to installing it. I had a friend who swore by it. Hope this helps!

 

having the 4 pass trans cooler to cool the fuel works great on a day to day basis. I was sold when I took the bmw 325 fully loaded across the desert in 108 deg temps and had no pinging. Put it under a nice load too...

 

anecdotal evidence is cute enough for most (even around here) but you're not going to sell the idea to the hardcore guys without real proof.

 

Porsche used fuel cooling on the 928's running the fuel thru the air conditioning system. Novitec is using it in the 430's due to the high engine temps. Fighter jet use fuel temp transducers. Drag racers have used it with the cool can's.

The problem is finding a sustainable source that can be measured without using more energy than it consumes. In FI cars, cooler fuel can sustantially quell high inlet temps, that may not mean more power but better reliability.

I've been looking for a system that can produce 33 deg fuel for my trubo porche to offset the high inlet temps. Noting short of a military application can deal with a 30 minute road race session. I'm willing to bet that the cooling that the inline will drop the temps but not enough to make enough of a difference to warrant spending $. If it can drop fuel temps 50 degrees for thirty minutes, I'm a buyer.

Jimmy

 

I 've heard somebody using the refrigerator device of the portable accessory unit used for travel purpose (.. sorry, really don't know how to translate it)
.. so you avoid drawing power from the engine driven A/C

somebody else tried with Peltier cells and "Waterblocks" used for computer overclocking ... but seems too much Watts are required