Goodbye MBWORLD
07-29-2008, 09:38 PM
#101
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4 wheels
I feel as if though some of the sites original owners of this site are a bunch of two face talkers. Say one thing yet act another way. Sound like politicians. Sorry about the rant, but it has to be said.
07-29-2008, 09:52 PM
#102
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
I hope Juicee63/Josh decides to stay, he's a true enthusiast and contributor to the site, if he starts posting elsewhere, I'll add that site to my bookmarks.
I've seen favoritism towards Administrator's customers mentioned. If this is true, it will certainly bring down the community. It's not about how many members are registered, it's about a select group of members that produce meaningful content that attract others to join and participate.
I hope the board doesn't deteriorate into an over-moderated and blatantly biased board like M5board.com!
I've seen favoritism towards Administrator's customers mentioned. If this is true, it will certainly bring down the community. It's not about how many members are registered, it's about a select group of members that produce meaningful content that attract others to join and participate.
I hope the board doesn't deteriorate into an over-moderated and blatantly biased board like M5board.com!
07-29-2008, 10:15 PM
#103
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2004 E55 AMG, 2002 Porsche 996 TT, 2004 BMW x5 4.8is, 2004 F360
07-29-2008, 10:16 PM
#104
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2004 E55 AMG, 2002 Porsche 996 TT, 2004 BMW x5 4.8is, 2004 F360
07-29-2008, 10:22 PM
#105
MBWorld Fanatic!
have never really seen this board overmoderated. it tends (at least, for me)
to be under moderated. the crying over how un/fair someone has been
disciplined has always been somewhat comical for me as they tend to be
over dramatic, e.g. i'm leaving, l'm pissed, i'm never coming back, you guys
hate me, etc. I've also had my share of disputes with moderators.
fortunately for me, MBWorld is just a pit stop and a forum which allows me
to swing by and learn how to save a few bucks in repairs or to share ideas
on how to enhance our rides. otherwise, it's just like any other watering
hole, tavern, etc in terms of personalities. I enjoy what I can and dispense
with everything else.
to be under moderated. the crying over how un/fair someone has been
disciplined has always been somewhat comical for me as they tend to be
over dramatic, e.g. i'm leaving, l'm pissed, i'm never coming back, you guys
hate me, etc. I've also had my share of disputes with moderators.
fortunately for me, MBWorld is just a pit stop and a forum which allows me
to swing by and learn how to save a few bucks in repairs or to share ideas
on how to enhance our rides. otherwise, it's just like any other watering
hole, tavern, etc in terms of personalities. I enjoy what I can and dispense
with everything else.
07-29-2008, 10:24 PM
#106
MBWorld Founder
I feel as if though some of the sites original owners of this site are a bunch of two face talkers. Say one thing yet act another way. Sound like politicians.
Sorry about the rant, but it has to be said.
Sorry about the rant, but it has to be said.
I appreciate you sharing your opinion. I obviously disagree with your accusations that we deliberately or intentionally say one thing and act another way. But if there are specific issues or examples we need to discuss, let's do that constructively. If there are things that "need to be said", at least say them and put some effort into helping make them better for the community. But perhaps JUST making blatant accusations makes you feel better. Again, in your hands...
We had a pretty big quake (5.8) here in SoCal today so I'm calling it a night and heading home to see my family. I hope nobody was badly effected by the quake. I also hope we can start fresh here tomorrow and continue to move forward...
.
07-29-2008, 11:28 PM
#108
MBWorld Fanatic!
07-30-2008, 12:32 AM
#110
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Thanks for the support from all the members and the Admin for keeping the thread going in an attempt to clear the air on some of the issues.
Sorry to the Simon and Brad for making this public but perhaps this will ultimately lead to making moderation easier.
Thanks for not banning everyone who questioned the policy, and I truly appreciate the reaching out in the PM.
Sorry to the Simon and Brad for making this public but perhaps this will ultimately lead to making moderation easier.
Thanks for not banning everyone who questioned the policy, and I truly appreciate the reaching out in the PM.
07-30-2008, 12:59 AM
#111
MBWorld Fanatic!
1.85 posts per day. yeah, normally, i hang out a little gurl chat rooms but all
the effort Chris Hanson has put into his show is messing things up for me.
07-30-2008, 01:06 AM
#112
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks for the support from all the members and the Admin for keeping the thread going in an attempt to clear the air on some of the issues.
Sorry to the Simon and Brad for making this public but perhaps this will ultimately lead to making moderation easier.
Thanks for not banning everyone who questioned the policy, and I truly appreciate the reaching out in the PM.
Sorry to the Simon and Brad for making this public but perhaps this will ultimately lead to making moderation easier.
Thanks for not banning everyone who questioned the policy, and I truly appreciate the reaching out in the PM.
07-30-2008, 03:17 AM
#113
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a car that gets very poor gas mileage.
I can't even remember the number of times I've come across "FTW", or "FTMFW", or any of its variants in numerous posts. To be fair, I guess those are no longer acceptable too.
When I read Josh's first post I was like,
that's !!!
When I read Josh's first post I was like,
that's !!!
07-30-2008, 04:45 AM
#114
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Yep definately inconsistancy in the interpretation of the TOU.
I also found Brad's own posts where he spells out a prophane word with intentional mis-spelling using the #1 for an I. This line of questioning is not intended to disrespect the rules simple clarity is all I seek
Last edited by juicee63; 07-30-2008 at 11:10 AM.
07-30-2008, 06:20 AM
#115
MBWorld Fanatic!
Jason- I really do appreciate you being around here since 2001. When I started MBWorld (even before it was called MBWorld) at home at 2 in the morning one night many years ago, my motivation was to create a place to bring people together and share information. Fast forward to several years and 90k members later. Things are not as simple anymore. Nothing to do with the fact that the site was sold. Things get complicated as sites like this grow. Having to manage 10's of thousands of members; everyone has their gripes and issues- be it big or small; trying to make as many of the masses happy as possible. Do you realize the amount of emails and inquiries we receive each day? Certainly doesn't make things any easier. Everyone has their own perception of reality. Unless you're in the trenches, you can only paint your own picture. So I will tell you that just because you've been a citizen for many years doesn't mean you know how the government "works". Moderators do what they can to keep things in order, but it's the members who can dictate which direction the site takes. And it frustrates and saddens me when I see threads like this. People complain that the site has taken a turn; I say the members have a BIG role in which direction that goes. Just look at this thread. Everyone has an agenda.
I have to take offense to the comments you made above that were uncalled for. One, because there is no truth or basis to them. Like many others, you make a lot of assumptions and you come up with your own conclusions- so state them as so rather than making blatant comments. The comments regarding "evosport" are a total cop out. I'm personally tired of hearing them. People love using that as a scapegoat. Second, the site was sold yes. We're not sitting on some island, sipping champagne and collecting royalties. We're still here. And of course we care. Some of us have been doing this for 8 years! We don't single people out unless there's a good reason for it. It's simple: someone was given a warning for not following the terms of use. That's it. Leave it at that. Don't make it any more complicated than it needs to be. That user can make a decision in which direction they wish to go. People ask to moderate evenly yet they want to be the exception. We have rules. We HAVE to have rules. Unfortunately, we don't have 90,000 mature adults on this site. In this world, laws are meant for those who couldn't otherwise maintain order which we know is not everyone...yet they must apply to everyone.
But some people have nothing better to do than perpetuate the issues the wrong way. The attitudes and sarcastic responses alone speak volumes. If people want to look at the big picture, I suggest they post something meaningful and positive. And I welcome people to make comments, suggestions and discuss issues like this. I'm in no way saying shut up and deal with it. But do so in a constructive manner. If you want to achieve your objective for the good of the community, the way to do it is in your hands. And that will make all the difference.
.
I have to take offense to the comments you made above that were uncalled for. One, because there is no truth or basis to them. Like many others, you make a lot of assumptions and you come up with your own conclusions- so state them as so rather than making blatant comments. The comments regarding "evosport" are a total cop out. I'm personally tired of hearing them. People love using that as a scapegoat. Second, the site was sold yes. We're not sitting on some island, sipping champagne and collecting royalties. We're still here. And of course we care. Some of us have been doing this for 8 years! We don't single people out unless there's a good reason for it. It's simple: someone was given a warning for not following the terms of use. That's it. Leave it at that. Don't make it any more complicated than it needs to be. That user can make a decision in which direction they wish to go. People ask to moderate evenly yet they want to be the exception. We have rules. We HAVE to have rules. Unfortunately, we don't have 90,000 mature adults on this site. In this world, laws are meant for those who couldn't otherwise maintain order which we know is not everyone...yet they must apply to everyone.
But some people have nothing better to do than perpetuate the issues the wrong way. The attitudes and sarcastic responses alone speak volumes. If people want to look at the big picture, I suggest they post something meaningful and positive. And I welcome people to make comments, suggestions and discuss issues like this. I'm in no way saying shut up and deal with it. But do so in a constructive manner. If you want to achieve your objective for the good of the community, the way to do it is in your hands. And that will make all the difference.
.
You can take offense to my statements, probably because most are true and it pisses you off and no one has been able to say it as direct as me. I wont adress every statement above, but you guys want to talk about egos and assumptions, your complete tirade above is a direct reflection of just that. Asuuming Ive never been in the trenches and dont understand how it works, well I own a forum, im in the trenches daily. Ive said all i had to say, and this place has changed and you know it, or you wouldnt have the many big time posters complaining that it has. Ive done so much to support this site, more then you will ever know, but that will be just chocked up to I have a big ego in your and Brads eyes. Im taking a step back from this site for a bit, as its completely infected with Evosport ego and attitude at the moment. Good luck.....
Jason
07-30-2008, 07:17 AM
#116
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STS,FGT,12C,P85D,M4
yea, doesn't make much sense, you can't bleep your own expletives, as they do everywhere, network TV, etc...... but you can use them graphically as these do?
07-30-2008, 09:49 AM
#117
MBWorld Fanatic!
It was kind of hard not posting the past day. However, it wasn't for the reasons that you might think. Reading the absolute hypocrisy and spin doctors at play made me a little angry that I imposed such constraints on myself.
Maybe my problem is that when I see injustice it makes me angry? Maybe my value system is all screwed up? Maybe I expect too much from an online community? Maybe I expect it to somewhat mirror our (US) system of government where we have such principles of due process.... equal protection under the law... and a certain ethical code (ok maybe a bit idealistic on part).
I am a Certified Public Accountant in three states. I have to live by a professional code of ethics to keep my license. Part that code requires me to be independent of a client in circumstances where a financial statement is being produced. If I have any direct or indirect financial interest in a client, I can not be a part of that engagement. In the legal profession, a judge can not ethically ajudicate in a case that he/she has any indirect or direct financial/personal relationship to the parties. Obviously, mbworld is not preparing a Financial statement nor is it a courtroom. However, ethics and independence should play a part in how the site is operated. It is unethical that someone should play judge, jury, and executioner when someone criticizes them directly. That scenario is perceived as a fascist dictatorship. I think the membership who are up in arms at this time want there to be more due process....more independence. If Evosport is criticized....wrongfully or in such a way that violates the TOU...then a moderator with no connection to Evosport should handle it....not Brad or Simon...if they do...it looks like and smells like payback. Independence has two components independence in fact and indepenence in appearance. The mere appearance that someone is not independent (even if in fact they are not) can impair independence. Perception is everything....
Tom
Maybe my problem is that when I see injustice it makes me angry? Maybe my value system is all screwed up? Maybe I expect too much from an online community? Maybe I expect it to somewhat mirror our (US) system of government where we have such principles of due process.... equal protection under the law... and a certain ethical code (ok maybe a bit idealistic on part).
I am a Certified Public Accountant in three states. I have to live by a professional code of ethics to keep my license. Part that code requires me to be independent of a client in circumstances where a financial statement is being produced. If I have any direct or indirect financial interest in a client, I can not be a part of that engagement. In the legal profession, a judge can not ethically ajudicate in a case that he/she has any indirect or direct financial/personal relationship to the parties. Obviously, mbworld is not preparing a Financial statement nor is it a courtroom. However, ethics and independence should play a part in how the site is operated. It is unethical that someone should play judge, jury, and executioner when someone criticizes them directly. That scenario is perceived as a fascist dictatorship. I think the membership who are up in arms at this time want there to be more due process....more independence. If Evosport is criticized....wrongfully or in such a way that violates the TOU...then a moderator with no connection to Evosport should handle it....not Brad or Simon...if they do...it looks like and smells like payback. Independence has two components independence in fact and indepenence in appearance. The mere appearance that someone is not independent (even if in fact they are not) can impair independence. Perception is everything....
Tom
Last edited by TMC M5; 07-30-2008 at 10:12 AM.
07-30-2008, 10:14 AM
#118
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2012 W212 E350 Bluetec
Why not dump the BS smiley then? We all know it means Bull ****, but that is still allowed? yet **** is not? (btw I typed the astericks). I feel as if though some of the sites original owners of this site are a bunch of two face talkers. Say one thing yet act another way. Sound like politicians.
Sorry about the rant, but it has to be said.
I feel as if though some of the sites original owners of this site are a bunch of two face talkers. Say one thing yet act another way. Sound like politicians. Sorry about the rant, but it has to be said.
07-30-2008, 11:16 AM
#120
Senior Member
Not sure if this is the place, but I actually have a question about hooking up an IPod to my Sat radio and having the TPMS beam a signal to the Sat radio which would pass it on to the IPod and tell me my tire pressure is OK.
j/k.
Ok, now everyone back to the reason we all are at this site - to give me information while I offer nothing! (Thank you for that, BTW).
j/k.
Ok, now everyone back to the reason we all are at this site - to give me information while I offer nothing! (Thank you for that, BTW).
07-30-2008, 12:44 PM
#121
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2003 E55 AMG
I have to say.. sometimes the drama on this site is just crazy. And there seems to be more and more of it as the months go on.
I can't remember how many times I've typed "!(**&!@(#&(!@*&#" into my posts to show frustration..
I really dont understand how typing 4 asterisks **** is a violation ??? What does that mean anyways? Someone reading it isnt going to take offence.. it's just a BLEEP for language that we dont want to type out.
I myself have gone back and forth a few times on whether or not I should post my content elsewhere. The purpose of a site like this is to share information and experiences.. Sometimes all the drama gets in the way and it really deters people from wanting to post.
One final comment with respect to the membership levels... My opinion is that it doesn't matter if you have 1,000 or 90,000 members.. it only matters how many of those members contribute MEANINGFUL content to the site. The only reason the membership levels get up that high is because of all the meaningful content. Once that stops, you will quickly see a decline in visits, posts and active members.
Note: These are just opinions and thoughts I had while I was reading through this thread.. I am not trying to poke at the mods, owners of the site or anyone else.
I can't remember how many times I've typed "!(**&!@(#&(!@*&#" into my posts to show frustration..
I really dont understand how typing 4 asterisks **** is a violation ??? What does that mean anyways? Someone reading it isnt going to take offence.. it's just a BLEEP for language that we dont want to type out.
I myself have gone back and forth a few times on whether or not I should post my content elsewhere. The purpose of a site like this is to share information and experiences.. Sometimes all the drama gets in the way and it really deters people from wanting to post.
One final comment with respect to the membership levels... My opinion is that it doesn't matter if you have 1,000 or 90,000 members.. it only matters how many of those members contribute MEANINGFUL content to the site. The only reason the membership levels get up that high is because of all the meaningful content. Once that stops, you will quickly see a decline in visits, posts and active members.
Note: These are just opinions and thoughts I had while I was reading through this thread.. I am not trying to poke at the mods, owners of the site or anyone else.
07-30-2008, 01:22 PM
#122
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E63
It was kind of hard not posting the past day. However, it wasn't for the reasons that you might think. Reading the absolute hypocrisy and spin doctors at play made me a little angry that I imposed such constraints on myself.
Maybe my problem is that when I see injustice it makes me angry? Maybe my value system is all screwed up? Maybe I expect too much from an online community? Maybe I expect it to somewhat mirror our (US) system of government where we have such principles of due process.... equal protection under the law... and a certain ethical code (ok maybe a bit idealistic on part).
I am a Certified Public Accountant in three states. I have to live by a professional code of ethics to keep my license. Part that code requires me to be independent of a client in circumstances where a financial statement is being produced. If I have any direct or indirect financial interest in a client, I can not be a part of that engagement. In the legal profession, a judge can not ethically ajudicate in a case that he/she has any indirect or direct financial/personal relationship to the parties. Obviously, mbworld is not preparing a Financial statement nor is it a courtroom. However, ethics and independence should play a part in how the site is operated. It is unethical that someone should play judge, jury, and executioner when someone criticizes them directly. That scenario is perceived as a fascist dictatorship. I think the membership who are up in arms at this time want there to be more due process....more independence. If Evosport is criticized....wrongfully or in such a way that violates the TOU...then a moderator with no connection to Evosport should handle it....not Brad or Simon...if they do...it looks like and smells like payback. Independence has two components independence in fact and indepenence in appearance. The mere appearance that someone is not independent (even if in fact they are not) can impair independence. Perception is everything....
Tom
Maybe my problem is that when I see injustice it makes me angry? Maybe my value system is all screwed up? Maybe I expect too much from an online community? Maybe I expect it to somewhat mirror our (US) system of government where we have such principles of due process.... equal protection under the law... and a certain ethical code (ok maybe a bit idealistic on part).
I am a Certified Public Accountant in three states. I have to live by a professional code of ethics to keep my license. Part that code requires me to be independent of a client in circumstances where a financial statement is being produced. If I have any direct or indirect financial interest in a client, I can not be a part of that engagement. In the legal profession, a judge can not ethically ajudicate in a case that he/she has any indirect or direct financial/personal relationship to the parties. Obviously, mbworld is not preparing a Financial statement nor is it a courtroom. However, ethics and independence should play a part in how the site is operated. It is unethical that someone should play judge, jury, and executioner when someone criticizes them directly. That scenario is perceived as a fascist dictatorship. I think the membership who are up in arms at this time want there to be more due process....more independence. If Evosport is criticized....wrongfully or in such a way that violates the TOU...then a moderator with no connection to Evosport should handle it....not Brad or Simon...if they do...it looks like and smells like payback. Independence has two components independence in fact and indepenence in appearance. The mere appearance that someone is not independent (even if in fact they are not) can impair independence. Perception is everything....
Tom
All cleared up? 
07-30-2008, 01:36 PM
#123
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The double standard these former MBWorld owners (Mr. Vanos, Brad, etc...) have and uphold bothers me a great deal. Like I said before, they are like politicians, two face talkers. They should uphold to their own standards they have set. I see many mods/admins violate these rules and make obscene comments, yet they aren't penalized. However, when the average poster like you or me make such a comment, we get an email or PM from our two-face friend, Brad.
Seems unjust.
Seems unjust.
07-30-2008, 01:37 PM
#124
Super Moderator Alumni
From the TOU:
"Forums Acceptable Use Policy
You agree, through your use of the Discussion Forums, that you will not post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
You agree, through your use of the Discussion Forums, not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or MBWorld.org.
You agree, through your use of the Discussion Forums, that the posting of private communications (including, but not limited to e-mail, private messages, letters, faxes) without the consent of all parties to said communication is strictly prohibited."
Just let it go and get on with the intent of the forum, please. I'd hate to see more peeps banned.
07-30-2008, 01:44 PM
#125
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2005 E55
Yipes! You seem intent on digging that grave a little deeper.
You agree, through your use of the Discussion Forums, that the posting of private communications (including, but not limited to e-mail, private messages, letters, faxes) without the consent of all parties to said communication is strictly prohibited."
Just let it go and get on with the intent of the forum, please. I'd hate to see more peeps banned.
You agree, through your use of the Discussion Forums, that the posting of private communications (including, but not limited to e-mail, private messages, letters, faxes) without the consent of all parties to said communication is strictly prohibited."
Just let it go and get on with the intent of the forum, please. I'd hate to see more peeps banned.
eh.. the "don't let the public see how MODs treat you" clause.
so be it.
facts are facts.
besides... it's not really a personal communication, as much as a form letter saying i was EVIL for masking out "h3ll".
