Update: MHP ECU/TCU Tuning (Throttle Blipping, etc, DONE!)
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No, they can't open them up even close to as far as we can, as our results just proved. We're talking about a 350rwtq gain over the highest number we've seen to date.
The customer told us to make as much safe power as we could, so that's what we delivered without even tapping the TCU. Nothing lasts forever at 1000hp or tq, I think everyone realizes that. Will the trans go in his car at some point, sure, just like the trans would go in a stocker at some point.
The bottom line is that we can detune you and still smoke everyone else, which is exactly what these results prove.
The customer told us to make as much safe power as we could, so that's what we delivered without even tapping the TCU. Nothing lasts forever at 1000hp or tq, I think everyone realizes that. Will the trans go in his car at some point, sure, just like the trans would go in a stocker at some point.
The bottom line is that we can detune you and still smoke everyone else, which is exactly what these results prove.
So yes you have amazing figures but they all have had those figures too.
Happy times busting parts. Remember several tuners and lived and died by the sward. Blow one motor and get ready for everyone to raise hell. Its happened too many times and posting all these figures on over stressed cars is going to get you nowhere in the end.
Last edited by CynCarvin32; Sep 26, 2008 at 11:32 AM.
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'09 C63 AMG
Your statements again are absolutely wrong. How do you know what tuners have set as dyno figures on tunes they never offered for sale? You say things that you have no basis to say. Everyone knows the V12 TT makes insane power and torque and everyone says they limited it just because of reliability for the motor and drive line. Quit making blanket statement lies.
So yes you have amazing figures but they all have had those figures too.
Happy times busting parts. Remember several tuners and lived and died by the sward. Blow one motor and get ready for everyone to raise hell. Its happened too many times and posting all these figures on over stressed cars is going to get you nowhere in the end.
So yes you have amazing figures but they all have had those figures too.
Happy times busting parts. Remember several tuners and lived and died by the sward. Blow one motor and get ready for everyone to raise hell. Its happened too many times and posting all these figures on over stressed cars is going to get you nowhere in the end.
You are possibly the most annoying and ignorant person on the internet. Congratulations, you just made my ignore list.
If I'm posting lies find another dyno graph where any tuner makes over 900rw with an otherwise (aside from ECU tuning) stock 65.
Thanks
Andy
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2011 Black C63 Eurocharged V5
WOW!!
I knew I shoud've bought a CL65!!!!! I hate you andy...just so u know...
ChiroMikey---I wouldnt put much faith in Marko posting accurate 1/4mile times and if he does---theyll be "sandbaged" by at least a 1 sec and 10mph
......You don't think Marko pays for his mods with his own money do you?
ANDY,
the HUGE question----one that will define you....
Can E55 owners also expect 350lbs/ft more torque than any other tuner dyno???
Ill take 200lbs/ft higher....
I knew I shoud've bought a CL65!!!!! I hate you andy...just so u know...
ChiroMikey---I wouldnt put much faith in Marko posting accurate 1/4mile times and if he does---theyll be "sandbaged" by at least a 1 sec and 10mph
......You don't think Marko pays for his mods with his own money do you?ANDY,
the HUGE question----one that will define you....
Can E55 owners also expect 350lbs/ft more torque than any other tuner dyno???
Ill take 200lbs/ft higher....
Last edited by HYEPWR; Sep 26, 2008 at 12:58 PM.
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I can see why the natives are getting restless. We have gone thru the tuning wars before and its not always pretty. Post your graphs so you can silence your critics but until then I can understand the skepticism.
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'09 C63 AMG
Andy if they used a normal tach pick-up for the 65 the torque numbers will be skewed. The only accurate way on a dynojet to do a 65 is with an optical pick-up. As far as doing the 09's, the shop were I dyno has done an 09 with a carlsson tune and one with a Renntech tune. They did not make anywhere near 690 rwhp .
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'09 C63 AMG
Will all due respect Andy, we need your dynograph too. Where is it? With today's technology I cant see why someone can't take a pic of the dyno with a cell phone and email it to you.
I can see why the natives are getting restless. We have gone thru the tuning wars before and its not always pretty. Post your graphs so you can silence your critics but until then I can understand the skepticism.
I can see why the natives are getting restless. We have gone thru the tuning wars before and its not always pretty. Post your graphs so you can silence your critics but until then I can understand the skepticism.
Like I've mentioned multiple times already. It was dyno'd at an independant 3rd party shop (so no one could claim we skewed the #s) which is why it's been such a PITA (the shop in question has no motivation/incentive to get us the graph asap) to get it. I don't like it, but what am I going to do.
They may not be punctual but they will get it to us and I will post it.
Thanks
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'09 C63 AMG
WOW!!
I knew I shoud've bought a CL65!!!!! I hate you andy...just so u know...
ChiroMikey---I wouldnt put much faith in Marko posting accurate 1/4mile times and if he does---theyll be "sandbaged" by at least a 1 sec and 10mph ......You don't think Marko pays for his mods with his own money do you?
ANDY,
the HUGE question----one that will define you....
Can E55 owners also expect 350lbs/ft more torque than any other tuner dyno???
Ill take 200lbs/ft higher....
I knew I shoud've bought a CL65!!!!! I hate you andy...just so u know...
ChiroMikey---I wouldnt put much faith in Marko posting accurate 1/4mile times and if he does---theyll be "sandbaged" by at least a 1 sec and 10mph
......You don't think Marko pays for his mods with his own money do you?ANDY,
the HUGE question----one that will define you....
Can E55 owners also expect 350lbs/ft more torque than any other tuner dyno???
Ill take 200lbs/ft higher....
I'm not one to make guesses on power output but I can tell you that both our stock and modified E55 "testers" will **** their pants after installing our ECU/TCU.
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2008 CLK 63 Cabrio 2006 SC Range Rover Sport H-D Road Glide
Andy, It sounds like you guys are making some insane numbers out of that 65. I do have some concerns as do some of the other posters on this thread about the following.
Reliabilty; I am fully aware that even the smallest of mods can affect relabilty.
My other question/concern is this. I can understand you make some huge gains on the 63's, it is a relatively new powerplant, and has not been around long enough for tuners to really tap it's potential. That being said the 65 and 55's have been around for many years, what makes your tunes so much more efficiant and powerful? Have or can other tuners achieve these kinds of number but have dialed them back due to reliabilty? I wish soem other credible tuners could chime in on this issue. I am very close to going with MHP on a tune for my 63, but I need to know I am going to have some level of at least decent reliabilty.
Reliabilty; I am fully aware that even the smallest of mods can affect relabilty.
My other question/concern is this. I can understand you make some huge gains on the 63's, it is a relatively new powerplant, and has not been around long enough for tuners to really tap it's potential. That being said the 65 and 55's have been around for many years, what makes your tunes so much more efficiant and powerful? Have or can other tuners achieve these kinds of number but have dialed them back due to reliabilty? I wish soem other credible tuners could chime in on this issue. I am very close to going with MHP on a tune for my 63, but I need to know I am going to have some level of at least decent reliabilty.
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'09 C63 AMG
Could you imagine what that 65 could do with some intake mods, headers and exhaust? 
One more question, again, I'm no expert on anything, but I have owned a few turbo cars in my day, but never an M-B, what exactly are you manipulating to get these hp and torque gains? I would assume huge amounts of boost and keep the waste gate closed longer? With my experiences with turbos the heat they genrate is eventually what ends up killing the performance, is the stock inter cooler going to be able to handle the heat generated by it and the boost? Have you guys even though about that yet?
One more question, again, I'm no expert on anything, but I have owned a few turbo cars in my day, but never an M-B, what exactly are you manipulating to get these hp and torque gains? I would assume huge amounts of boost and keep the waste gate closed longer? With my experiences with turbos the heat they genrate is eventually what ends up killing the performance, is the stock inter cooler going to be able to handle the heat generated by it and the boost? Have you guys even though about that yet?
We were upfront with him regarding the diff/halfshafts/driveshaft and he was fine with the fact that we couldn't guarantee anything at that power level.
Again the car is a daily driver and probably won't see WOT as many times in a week as my car does in an hour with me behind the wheel so we're not overly worried about the cooling system. If he does report any sort of issue we'll change things around for him.
Thanks
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'09 C63 AMG
I'm heading out in a half hour to run a stock C63 and Gallardo (on vid) and will get that up by tonight for sure. The cars are owned by another mbworld forum member who will also post his feelings on my car vs his stocker.
Thanks
Andy
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'09 C63 AMG
Andy, It sounds like you guys are making some insane numbers out of that 65. I do have some concerns as do some of the other posters on this thread about the following.
Reliabilty; I am fully aware that even the smallest of mods can affect relabilty.
My other question/concern is this. I can understand you make some huge gains on the 63's, it is a relatively new powerplant, and has not been around long enough for tuners to really tap it's potential. That being said the 65 and 55's have been around for many years, what makes your tunes so much more efficiant and powerful? Have or can other tuners achieve these kinds of number but have dialed them back due to reliabilty? I wish soem other credible tuners could chime in on this issue. I am very close to going with MHP on a tune for my 63, but I need to know I am going to have some level of at least decent reliabilty.
Reliabilty; I am fully aware that even the smallest of mods can affect relabilty.
My other question/concern is this. I can understand you make some huge gains on the 63's, it is a relatively new powerplant, and has not been around long enough for tuners to really tap it's potential. That being said the 65 and 55's have been around for many years, what makes your tunes so much more efficiant and powerful? Have or can other tuners achieve these kinds of number but have dialed them back due to reliabilty? I wish soem other credible tuners could chime in on this issue. I am very close to going with MHP on a tune for my 63, but I need to know I am going to have some level of at least decent reliabilty.
I really can't comment further on other tuners tuning ability (software, knowledge, etc.) but I can say we know what we're doing. There's over 35 years of tuning experience of all makes/models between Dave and I.
The 6.2s are N/A motors making them almost impossible to hurt, you'd have to do something seriously wrong in order to blow one up. That's the type of mistake we never make.
Thanks
Andy
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'09 C63 AMG
To further that I'm not worried a bit about the 6.2s even with H/C on a stock bottom end spinning to 7500rpm or higher--the trans will be the limiting factor as far as rpm goes.
Amongst the collection of stock 6.2 parts I've purchased are a connecting rod and a piston (because a shortblock is around $40k lol). They are both high enough quality pieces that will undoubtedly survive that kind of rpm. We're replacing the valvetrain to accomodate larger cams (more lift and duration) so no worries there either, though the stock stuff looks to be good to 7500rpm anyway.
Thanks
Amongst the collection of stock 6.2 parts I've purchased are a connecting rod and a piston (because a shortblock is around $40k lol). They are both high enough quality pieces that will undoubtedly survive that kind of rpm. We're replacing the valvetrain to accomodate larger cams (more lift and duration) so no worries there either, though the stock stuff looks to be good to 7500rpm anyway.
Thanks
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
I keep reading this stuff and I can't help but wonder why the question still hasn't been asked. So your $h*t unlocks the potential of the 63's, makes ungodly power and torque from 65's, and now you're going to work your magic for us 55K guys. What are you going to do for the first customer that loses a motor/trans and has his car tagged with a "status 8" by MB? I guess they're SOL because you claim to still be in the "safe" rage of RPM, torque limit, and A/F? No offense, but there's no doubt in my mind that at least a few other tuners can access the same parameters you are adjusting, but choose not to make such aggressive changes? The Kompressor motors in particular will vomit their internals pretty rapidly with only a small F-up. You may know what you're doing, but you also acknowledge that anything that increases power brings the entire drivetrain closer to its limits. For that reason, you're obviously pushing those limits more than "the other guys". Do you have a warranty? Do you intend to offer one? If you can cover a customers car that breaks a major mechanical component (engine/trans/diff, not just the cheap stuff like halfshafts), you'll be a freakin' hero.
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To further that I'm not worried a bit about the 6.2s even with H/C on a stock bottom end spinning to 7500rpm or higher--the trans will be the limiting factor as far as rpm goes.
Amongst the collection of stock 6.2 parts I've purchased are a connecting rod and a piston (because a shortblock is around $40k lol). They are both high enough quality pieces that will undoubtedly survive that kind of rpm. We're replacing the valvetrain to accomodate larger cams (more lift and duration) so no worries there either, though the stock stuff looks to be good to 7500rpm anyway.
Thanks
Amongst the collection of stock 6.2 parts I've purchased are a connecting rod and a piston (because a shortblock is around $40k lol). They are both high enough quality pieces that will undoubtedly survive that kind of rpm. We're replacing the valvetrain to accomodate larger cams (more lift and duration) so no worries there either, though the stock stuff looks to be good to 7500rpm anyway.
Thanks
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2008 CLK 63 Cabrio 2006 SC Range Rover Sport H-D Road Glide
I keep reading this stuff and I can't help but wonder why the question still hasn't been asked. So your $h*t unlocks the potential of the 63's, makes ungodly power and torque from 65's, and now you're going to work your magic for us 55K guys. What are you going to do for the first customer that loses a motor/trans and has his car tagged with a "status 8" by MB? I guess they're SOL because you claim to still be in the "safe" rage of RPM, torque limit, and A/F? No offense, but there's no doubt in my mind that at least a few other tuners can access the same parameters you are adjusting, but choose not to make such aggressive changes? The Kompressor motors in particular will vomit their internals pretty rapidly with only a small F-up. You may know what you're doing, but you also acknowledge that anything that increases power brings the entire drivetrain closer to its limits. For that reason, you're obviously pushing those limits more than "the other guys". Do you have a warranty? Do you intend to offer one? If you can cover a customers car that breaks a major mechanical component (engine/trans/diff, not just the cheap stuff like halfshafts), you'll be a freakin' hero.
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'04 Porsche 996TT X-50, '95 M3 Built & Blown
FAST55 are you serious? Now you want Andy to warranty anything that might break or blow up as a result of his tuning? You must be nuts! Does Rentech cover warranty work once a car or VIN gets black balled for having their mods on it? NO! You are unreal! I would assume most of us that mod our cars, from mild to extreme know the costs involved, some of those cost include voided warranties and blown motors. It sounds to me like you should just keep your entire car and motor bone stock, make sure you follow the manufacturers engine break in to the word and be sure you change your synthetic oil every 3000. LOL! WHAT A JOKE!
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Andy if they used a normal tach pick-up for the 65 the torque numbers will be skewed. The only accurate way on a dynojet to do a 65 is with an optical pick-up. As far as doing the 09's, the shop were I dyno has done an 09 with a carlsson tune and one with a Renntech tune. They did not make anywhere near 690 rwhp .
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
FAST55 are you serious? Now you want Andy to warranty anything that might break or blow up as a result of his tuning? You must be nuts! Does Rentech cover warranty work once a car or VIN gets black balled for having their mods on it? NO! You are unreal! I would assume most of us that mod our cars, from mild to extreme know the costs involved, some of those cost include voided warranties and blown motors. It sounds to me like you should just keep your entire car and motor bone stock, make sure you follow the manufacturers engine break in to the word and be sure you change your synthetic oil every 3000. LOL! WHAT A JOKE!
you'd know that. It's a valid question and deserves an answer. Go back and re-read my post. No one should just assume that losing a $40K+ motor is the price you pay for modding (it shouldn't be, but it has happened), no matter how wild the mods are. What I'm asking is that if something goes wrong, will MHP put their money where their mouth is, or will it be another blame game like we've seen from so many other non-big name tuners. I don't give a rats a$$ if MHP can give me even 1% more power than Renntech or Kleemann if they tell me to pack sand when my motor blows. For the prices being charged, it's valid question. Anyone that thinks otherwise deserves a big F-you from MHP when you find a flat cylinder in your $40K motor. Yes, we take our chances when modding, and I don't intend to whine about a blown u-joint or anything that results from the extra power my car makes now. I do expect ALL tuners to take care of their customers when their work is at fault.
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No, this is not a joke, and Renntech mods, while they technically void your warranty, are many times covered because there are a lot of MB dealers who are Renntech dealers/installers. Same for Kleemann (which is what's in my car). If you weren't a you'd know that. It's a valid question and deserves an answer. Go back and re-read my post. No one should just assume that losing a $40K+ motor is the price you pay for modding (it shouldn't be, but it has happened), no matter how wild the mods are. What I'm asking is that if something goes wrong, will MHP put their money where their mouth is, or will it be another blame game like we've seen from so many other non-big name tuners. I don't give a rats a$$ if MHP can give me even 1% more power than Renntech or Kleemann if they tell me to pack sand when my motor blows. For the prices being charged, it's valid question. Anyone that thinks otherwise deserves a big F-you from MHP when you find a flat cylinder in your $40K motor. Yes, we take our chances when modding, and I don't intend to whine about a blown u-joint or anything that results from the extra power my car makes now. I do expect ALL tuners to take care of their customers when their work is at fault.
you'd know that. It's a valid question and deserves an answer. Go back and re-read my post. No one should just assume that losing a $40K+ motor is the price you pay for modding (it shouldn't be, but it has happened), no matter how wild the mods are. What I'm asking is that if something goes wrong, will MHP put their money where their mouth is, or will it be another blame game like we've seen from so many other non-big name tuners. I don't give a rats a$$ if MHP can give me even 1% more power than Renntech or Kleemann if they tell me to pack sand when my motor blows. For the prices being charged, it's valid question. Anyone that thinks otherwise deserves a big F-you from MHP when you find a flat cylinder in your $40K motor. Yes, we take our chances when modding, and I don't intend to whine about a blown u-joint or anything that results from the extra power my car makes now. I do expect ALL tuners to take care of their customers when their work is at fault.
Benzgal's blew & nobody paid for it but her, there have been other Klee/renn failures as well. Where do you gather that any tuner will foot the bill after modying goes "Boom" unless possibly under the tuners care while said tuning/modding is performed
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'06 E55, '05 SLK55, a few others
First of all, the ones that have gone BOOM are almost non-existent for these tuners. Angela's car was done by Evo. It is now all Renntech. I know of one car for sure that was repaired by Kleemann at their cost. I'll bet my next paycheck against yours that if her car grenades, Hartmut will fix it unless it's clearly not their fault. That's all I'm saying. It's usually not too hard to tell what went wrong in a blown motor. Renntech was able to tell her what happened to her motor. Anyone else feel like eating the cost of a motor if it's obvious it cooked because of a lean tune, or lost a cylinder because it was overly rich and "washed out" the bore? We need to stop making excuses for the people that have claimed to be MB "tuners" but have cost their customers $$$. I have nothing against MHP and Andy seems like a stand up guy. I wish them and their customers the best of luck. It's just gotten a little bloated in the MB tuning market, and I think you'll agree, that just because someone has done a lot of other cars and can tune a MB, doesn't mean they should.
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'09 C63 AMG
I keep reading this stuff and I can't help but wonder why the question still hasn't been asked. So your $h*t unlocks the potential of the 63's, makes ungodly power and torque from 65's, and now you're going to work your magic for us 55K guys. What are you going to do for the first customer that loses a motor/trans and has his car tagged with a "status 8" by MB? I guess they're SOL because you claim to still be in the "safe" rage of RPM, torque limit, and A/F? No offense, but there's no doubt in my mind that at least a few other tuners can access the same parameters you are adjusting, but choose not to make such aggressive changes? The Kompressor motors in particular will vomit their internals pretty rapidly with only a small F-up. You may know what you're doing, but you also acknowledge that anything that increases power brings the entire drivetrain closer to its limits. For that reason, you're obviously pushing those limits more than "the other guys". Do you have a warranty? Do you intend to offer one? If you can cover a customers car that breaks a major mechanical component (engine/trans/diff, not just the cheap stuff like halfshafts), you'll be a freakin' hero.
Any forced induction motor will eat itself with the smallest tuning error, not just a MB. Again, we have over 35 years of combined experience tuning PD blowers (Roots, Twin Screws, TVSs), single and twin tubros (+nitrous), N/A, and pure nitrous apps.
As for a warranty on a 55/65 there's simply no way we can do that. Put yourself in our position, what happens if we give someone a 2/24 or 3/36 warranty on the driveline, and they go out and slap a 150 shot on said car just because of our warranty.
What happens if someone's wife throws 87 octane in the tank? etc etc. There are just far too many ways for us to get screwed by doing so. We're not here to blow up anyone's vehicle. Obviously as a tuner that's the easiest way to put yourself out of business, and I'm proud to say that we've NEVER lost a motor (build, tune, or both). Thanks
