hamann69

I currently have the CM30 and thinking about upgrading. Is it worth it?

jangy

three times the flow....

Vadim @ FD

22.5 vs. 90 Liters per Minute.

3/4'' outlet vs. 1.5'' outlet.

Almo

With a larger pump like the 90… possible for fluid to be cycled too quick and will not cool as the system is designed.

And or has this been covered already?

MB Fanatic

I highly doubt that the fluid would not be cooled. If anything, it will allow for more fluid to pass through the IC/HE at a much more reasonable rate than the stock pump or even the CM30 pump. I still had the supercharger shut down on my E55 with the CM30 pump whe it got really hot.

Almo

Exactly my point... more fluid through the HE might not be beneficial pending what/how the car is being used. Didn't mean it wouldn't cool but similar air to water systems on 03/04 Cobras have shown fluids cycled through quicker by a larger pump defeats the purpose. This due in part the fluid passing through the HE so quick while the vehicle is moving didn't allow airflow passing through the HE to help cool the fluid.

Wondering if anyone has tested the results of both pumps.

chiromikey

i agree with your thoughts and use the cm30 because of it. i live in az and i can promise it gets hotter than most places and i've never had a problem with s/c shutdown. unfortunately nobody has tested it so all you're going to get is opinionated debate.

jangy

I disagree. Assuming we are separating the system only. With slow flow, you have a reducing gradient as the liquid cools. The lower the gradient the slower the rate of heat exchange. With high flow, the heated liquid dissipates any exchanged heat loss more quickly, bringing a delta temperature all around and maintaining a higher delta at the HE. Dunno if that makes sense, but in a nut shell, you have a certain amount of liquid to air exchanging over a given time.How many gallons that happens over is irrelevent, unless the bigger pumps add heat (on their own).

BTW, datalogger trends IAt and coolant temps.

Almo

Can the air-to-water fluid (temp wise) be read by datalogging an E55? I kind of think the answer is no as this would make things too simple. LOL

Either way, I agree with you in saying they will indeed be cooler as fluids are pushed from the hotter portions within the block (I say block lightly) continuing the cycle and passing through the HE but... only half the battle is cycling, the other half is a touch of science which should create a question like... how long does the fluid need to cycle within an HE getting good airflow to cool fluids to their lowest temps possible.

An effective way in my opinion to tell the difference would be to install the 30, (car at normal operating temp) go hit the hwy for 5 minutes at 65 MPH then go through two cycles of WOT from a low chosen MPH. Do the same on the same day with the 90 (preferably on a 85 to 90 degree day)... all while datalogging of course and paying close attention to the IATs and timing... this might show some difference. I am surprised no one has done this yet.

Anyways, another easy way would simply be... tap the hose coming off the HE and run a digital temp gauge to show the actual fluid temps between each.

OzE55

That's true if the larger pump doesn't 'cavitate' the water column or cause abnormal flow patterns resulting in separation of fluid layers within the IC/circiut. I dont know if the bigger pump does these things but I dont think anyone knows that it doesn't.
It should be tested under normal driving conditions and 'high heat' applications. I suppose it could be done on a dyno with repeated WOT runs - measure the time to SC shutdown.

rflow306

keep in mind that on the cm90 the flow is being reduced by the size of the lines we use. The rated flow is with 1.5 inlet and outlet lines.

Vadim @ FD

Pumps are rated at 0 psi restriction. Ideally one wants to compare flow vs. psi graph to see what the pump will do under load.

I am working on a new cooling package for 55s/600s/65s that will use bigger pump with bigger lines. It will require upgrading in/out lines on factory IC.

I will post details later this week.

Oxygen

I got some spy shots...

V12Godspeed

I'd be very interesting to datalog and see the results of the IAT's...

chiromikey

this debate really is meaningless as we all should know by now that the real problem is the i/c and not pump size or even heat exchanger...and this i know for a fact after spending the money to create my system.

TopGun32

same here..

bigger pumps is not the complete solution. The bottle neck is at the Intercooler Core underneath the supercharger.

Bigger HE and better consistent pump will help keep the IAT's on check and will recover sooner.. but it will still spike when going WOT.. there is nothing we can do to prevent this on a 90 degree day. The key is to stay away from the 140f IAT spike and recover from it..

this will keep the the ECU from retarding timing..

You can add heat spacers, fan mod, open the hood vents, separate the lines and add another reservoir.. which will yield some cooler IATs.. but it won't be dramatic.

It comes down to the placement of the IC unit it self.. compare our unit to the ones from the CTS-V.. and they had the right concept.

I monitor my IAT's daily.. and I mess around with just about everything..

Water & Water Wetter, heat shield tapes,

I have used 2 different HE cores

rflow306

I think tuning of the iat vs timing map is a better solution once you have good set-up in place. Even a modded turbo car with a large air to air ic will see 140 to 160 iat's on a 90 deg day. Merc is very aggressive with regards to iat correction IMO.

Introducing larger cores ie SLR setup also has drawbacks when you are limited to the amount of boost you can run.

Almo

Make sense and this would be interesting... and I'll say this in defense to Jangy and my previous comments... if and when a person drives aggressive now and then and likes to stay up in rpms longer... one would want a larger pump simply due to the fact the fluid gets in and out quicker giving it more cooling than what a slower cycle would do from a smaller pump. If this was the case... bigger is always better.

chiromikey

btw, the flow on the cm30 is greater than the stock bosch pump. i don't recall the numbers but it was posted around here somewhere.

C32madness

I would think that the IC would benefit from the faster pump.

Because the delta between the IC and intake charge is greater than the delta of the HE and amibent air the IC portion of the circut would benefit the most. Next focus should be on increasing the volume of the fluid so that the IC would see virgin fluid for the duration of the boost run. Assume that 20-30 seconds is a resonable time for WOT duration and do that math. This approach would work for 90% of us. Those that expect to do on/off runs back to back would still experance heat soak.

With this approach it would be interesting to see if we still get that IAT spike. If so then addressing the IC core is in order. Using the factory location we could still try to use a more efficent IC core and use factory tanks and log the results.

I for one am not interested in going down this path. I chased the HP demons in many different marques. Last project was a 502whp/504wtq 993tt. At 3,200 lbs it was FUN!!! I love the E55 for all its graces. Not going to get caught up in the HP wars for this platform. I plan to upgrade the HE with the 5" Code3, make some custom headers and elimante the pre cats. While not the monster most of you guys have/want it will remain the perfect balance of luxury and performance in my mind.

Exotic-metal55

I recall the stock pump bering 15 LPM and CM30 @ 22.5 LPM. Nice increase in my book. Whithout larger lines, I can not see the CM90 helping very much.

I assume most of us are spinning our water pumps quicker on top of the stronger I/C pumps? This comes form the smaller water pump pulley included in most/all pulley kits? ANy help fromn that? I could not see any on my logging events but hard to test.

Vader55

Is this the right model for an 04 e55....we need the 12volt I beleive and 3/4 connection yes?

Johnson CM30P7-1 pump 10-24504-03


Highlights

• 20 mm hose connections (3/4")
• Pumps water up to 100° C (212° F)
• Magnetic drive means a sealed pump chamber
• Rated for continuous duty (motor life 5000 hours)
• Weight 0.60 kg (1.32 lbs)
• 1 year manufacturer's warranty
• 12 and 24 Volt

splinter

That’s the one. 12 volts for the MB.

Reasonably priced from this outfit…http://apeusa.com/

prodigymb

yup thats where i got mine from