MHP

LOL, hence the reason we want to go head to head at the track. I'm sure someone will purchase a PC C63 tune by 11/15 and be there. If any tuner is confident in their abilities, they should have no problem showing up directly or indirectly. In fact, being that you're somewhat local, please buy their ECU tuning (as far as I know they don't do TCU) and we can run at MIR--if you can't make that event we can set something up before at another track/venue.

Otherwise, their car dyno'd as much stock as mine did with 93 octane and drop in K&Ns.

MRAMG1

My next event is at Beaverun on 10/11. Please feel free to come on out my friend and play. I always enjoy some freindly competion, and beers later win/loose/or draw

See yeah

PS: Not really a straight line type of guy, more fun is avaible in the corners, although with ALL of the hype going around I will do my best to make MIR. Should be VERY interesting for all I think.

TMC M5

The Kleemann #'s are probably low at the crank because the dyno appears to be done at Colorado Springs, CO...an elevation of 6,000+ft.

The attached calculator show the hp loss at elevation for N/A cars...

http://www.ovoonline.com/sitebuilder...s/4x4_math.xls

rows 105-111 in the spreadsheet.

Tom

MHP

Where is Beaverun? Do you have a stock or tuned C63?

I love corners too but drag racing is where it's at for comparing tuning.

Thanks
Andy

MRAMG1

Hey Andy:

Beaverun is in the extreme West of PA, about 10 miles from the Ohio border. I guess you missed my tag, but I drive a lowly little C32. And OH YEAH, your right about where the tuning/money is. Road racing is almost a dead sport in the states.
I just looked up MIR and its a six hour drive for me, give or take, WAY too far for a drag race I am afraid, IMHO.

Good luck to all at MIR.

See yeah

MHP

Gotcha, thanks for the reply. How far are you from Norwalk? There should be a few of us there this Friday.
I can't wait until next year; when I'll actually have time to hit Mid Ohio with the C63.

Thanks

MRAMG1

If you are going to come to Mid-Ohio, you REALLY owe it to yourself to stop at Beaverun. NO gaurdrails at ANY apex, and plenty of run off area. Okay, a few guardrails, but I can assure you from running on both tracks that Beaverun will aloow you to let it hang out ALOT more. Unless you have a dedicated tow vehicle

Check out http://www.beaverun.com

See yeah

I'll check on Norwalk tomorrow, have to run

MHP

Stage I (filters, thermal gaskets) + ECU v2/TCU v2 Tuning. Fifth gear, Dyno Jet, SAE correction:

MHP

Juicee what were your corrected (SAE hopefully?) numbers?

Do you know how much the wheels added?

Thanks
Andy

juicee63

Oddly the corrected numbers were very close like 438/396,

The wheels are very important and would be my first mod on any 63 then the tune , spacers and filters. I picked up 70% of my gains from the wheels.

MHP

DAMN! I guess it's time to go wheel shopping.

Thanks again bud.

richtor

is that just from less rotational mass(less weight from the wheels) the powertrain has to turn or is there another magic wheel formula out there?

Simon @ evosport

So to be clear, you made about 5whp more then our car.

Our car had:
- powerchip/evosport tune
- CA 91 octane

Your car has:
- MHP tune (v2)
- MHP TCU (v2)
- Filters
- Thermal gaskets
- 93 octane fuel

Humm - and how much cheaper is our tune?

With the same mods, we will make just as much or more power. Stay tuned!

Thanks
Simon

MB Fanatic

jrcart

Simon, Impressive numbers on your C63, I have been watching that thread. Was yours a 4th or a 5th gear pull, I think Andy's was a 5th gear pull. From what I have seen there can be considerable differences between the two.

MHP

LOL, what mods, filters and thermal gaskets? Seeing that the K&Ns add 3-4rwhp and the gaskets add zero, I don't see your point.

Are you going to get a C63 tuned and ready for MIR as you said in the C63/204 forum? https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w204/263313-evosport-powerchip-stage-1-c63-ecu-tune-development.html Post #49



In the end you can quote whatever numbers you want to on a dyno, but the track is where it's at. On that note, I'll put up $ that we'll walk your tuned C63 all day long at MIR and obliterate you on the same dyno in MD with v2 tuning. I will be running v3 tuning at MIR so I'll comp a v2 tune to a C63 member (for a fair comparison--because I know you can't raise shift points, etc.) if you follow through as promised.

Actually it doesn't even have to be a C63, any 63 variant will work.

If you're truly confident in your product you'll have no problem stepping up.

Also,
We do ECU only now as well, so we're now $250-500 more expensive--and our ECU only tune will still beat yours on the street/track any day.

Waiting for your response...

jrcart

Evosport is thinking about bringing a C63 to MIR? HELL YA! That would definetely settle this debate. Same track on the same day...no room for any excuses there, somebody will go home the clear winner. It would only leave one question, would I be Team MHP or Team Evosport ....I guess I would be Team Chi-Town/MHP/Evosport(sans Powerchip). I'm gonna have to start drinking some beers and eating McDonalds if I want to fit all of that on a t-shirt

MHP

Brad initially wanted to tune the same car, and while that sounds great on paper it wouldn't work in reality. A tune from anyone takes 200 miles or so to be fully learned by ECU/TCU. After 30 miles of hard driving you'll get most of the benefits, but not 100%. Obviously a testing scenario like that would favor whatever tune was in the vehicle to start, unless the owner decided to make passes/dyno then install a new ECU drive around for 200 miles and repeat the testing.

The best and most objective way to test would be to find 2 testers with the same cars, as close to the same odo reading as possible, and with the same mods. Both testers go to the dyno/track in as is condition, then after installing our and evo's tuning, repeat on the same dyno/track. Afterwards, both cars can race heads up at MIR for the ultimate in comparison testing.

I've been down to do this for months. So far evo's the only one that's stepped up but it's been a while since we've heard back from them on this. We're ready to do this asap, just waiting on a response.

Thanks
Andy

Simon @ evosport

Thanks Jim. I was comparing 5th gear to 5th gear. We did our runs in both so we would be able to compare apples to apples.

Andy, this is NOT the forum for your aggressiveness or back and forth bickering. Yes, I did reply to your post, but we should leave it with your reply. This thread is about a place for all 63 runs to be posted. You have threads all over the forums hyping your #'s, but now that we beat your V1 and essentially matched your V2 and TCU with just software, I thought it would be helpful to show users what the comparison is.

If you are saying that filters are 3-4 hp, and 93 octane is at least another 3-4 compared to CA 91, so that means that the tunes are essentially the same. Again, clarifying for the users.

Personally I think it is great for people to have options, but I have a big problem with the marketing hype getting in the way of people actually knowing what they are getting.

Now, please show me where I or we PROMISED to have a car at MIR. Certainly you will not be able to find it, and I know that Brad has specifically stated that we would not be attending due to it being on the other side of the country (not to mention that we are racing that weekend out here and the proximity to SEMA).

If you want to compare, then you are welcome to come out here anytime, there are a TON of users from the forums that would be able to see a shout-out first hand in CA! I know it would be a blast for all, regardless of the results.

I do find it sad and disappointing that you seem to attack anyone else that had good product. I think that our reputation speaks volumes, especially on 63 tuning. There is no other tuner in the world that has made the power we have on the CLK63 Black series. We are not a "software" tuner we are a vehicle tuner. I also know that nobody from evosport has ever said anything negative publicly about you or MHP, but you seem eager to attack still? We did not start these forums for this type of communication, there certainly should be room for civil discussion and friendly competition, no?

Thanks
Simon

jrcart

I have been trying to get a race with the Renntech modified Black Series for 2 months now...they are avoiding me like the plague, I guess they are affraid of reality and affraid of what would happen to there business if an EvoSport modded Black Series handed it to their Renntech modded Black Series, especialy considering the Evosport work cost about 30% less than what Renntech charges. I even offered to ship my car to Florida for the match up.

Andy, I will be going to LA in mid January, having my car(s) shipped out there for some track events. Why don't you consider shipping your car along with mine so you can run their C63. We could tear up LA for a week and then top it off with a weekend in Vegas before heading home.

MHP

Simon, there is no aggression in my post, just confidence backed with real data not just dyno #s which everyone knows can be easily manipulated, not to mention dyno to dyno variation--your stock car on CA 91 made as much or more power than mine with filters on 93. Let's be clear, you did not beat our v1 numbers, if you really want to make such a claim let's throw both tunes on the same dyno, I'll put our v1 tuning up against your best NP. Please don't turn this into a personal issue, we're discussing a comparable product. If I wanted to lay into you, you'd know it.

Actually the difference is more like 10-12rwhp between 91-93 octane. So you should have no problem beating our numbers on the same dyno with 93 in the tank. So what's stopping you?

Me too (hate marketing hype, especially when unproven) which is why I want to do a heads up test so badly. It's the ultimate answer and the final word.

I linked the thread above, post #49:

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=263313

You do not have to bring a car out from CA, I don't think anyone ever expected that. The obvious answer is to tune a car local to MIR, as I've been saying for mos.

Surely you have sold a tune for a C63 in the vicinity?

We've already been over this. We can test anywhere, not just CA, and MIR is the best opportunity for a ton of mbworld.org members to see first hand what the real deal is.

You know what I find sad. The lack of response from so called credible tuners to having a public shootout to compare their goods. I've also never attacked Evosport as you claim. I've spoken with Brad a few times on the phone and he seems like a great guy, no question.
As for your claims on the CLK 63 BS, no other customer in the world gave you 6 mos to tune and modify their car, nor has anyone else tuned for 100 octane, ran no cats, had a full exhaust with CAIs, etc. As per Jim himself the lightweight wheels were worth 30rw alone and your dynos were in 4th gear. Factor that in and the numbers are what they are. I'm not knocking you or your tuning ability in any way, but we won't have a problem bettering those numbers by a fair or larger margin. The track/dyno data from Jim post MHP tuning will tell the entire tale.
I'm a competetive person, whether you happen to like it or not. I'm all for friendly competition. That being said, friendly competition, is still competition.

Kick back, relax, and let me know what you want to do about MIR. It's a golden opportunity for both of us to shine.

Thanks
Andy

MHP

Jim,
I don't have a problem with that, but at the same time, we're making the drive out to MIR and have offered to comp a free 63 tune to get the comparison over and done with asap. I know I don't want to wait as long as Jan for results, and I'm sure most potential customers don't either.
Evo doesn't need to have their own car there, as it won't be competing directly with my car, just another stock C63 with our tuning.
If Evo steps up and gets a tuned car to MIR then I have no problem repaying the favor and heading out West with you in Jan.

Thanks
Andy

jrcart

Let me get this straight, you are offering a comp (free or greatly discounted) C63 ECU tune to someone living in SOCAL for a neatural territory dyno shootout against a Powerchip ECU tuned C63? Sounds like you are stepping up to the plate with a no bull **** offer like that. Come on people, we could have results by the end of next week if somebody mans up quick.

MHP

Jim,
Close, a free tune to someone that will be attending MIR, regardless of location. I'd need a commitment for before/after dyno/track numbers and results and for the car to race at MIR, then the tune will be free.

Thanks
Andy

Code3 Performance

Excellent thread!~ It's good to see the numbers/charts side by side.

-Aaron