80MM TB package for only $1000.00!
09-19-2008, 03:29 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
80MM TB package for only $1000.00!
Well really the so called 80mm Tb is only 78mm. Give or take a fraction of a MM. At least the latest model many of us use off the 2007 SL55. It would be an assumption but makes sense the other 3 80mm TB`s measure the same general ID. Some say measure the blade but it is angled and so that number is skewed. Some measure the TB lip but it is flared out and also not a fair number. So that leaves the plain old inside diameter or smallest area of flow.. 78mm + or-.. Stock is 74mm + or -.. So once I paid 860.00 to get one in my hand, I was like wow not to much difference in potential flow area gain for 2500 to 3000 installed. Forget posted dyno`s, butt meter and advertised gains. I then decided, after being disappointed in seeing only 4mm difference, to put math to this and decide how to proceed. (Please don’t shoot yet),, this is all just my thought process and how I came up with my value.
We all have only a few ways to make our buying decisions on HP and I decided to use basic math for this MOD. Reading other dyno`s on motors that are highly sensitive to heat just was not enough to pull the 3000.00 trigger. Especially, since I fully believe a true 90mm to 100mm kit will come out for our cars and then what happens to my 3 grand and only 4mm increase in TB size?
I personally have always liked to mess with the intake side of an engine and so finding any larger TB is and addiction for my mod process
Feel free to fine tune calculations but I am just posting big picture info here.
Basically the stock TB is 74 or Radius of 37mm and the 80mm TB is really 78mm or 39mm Radius. Final area is 4775 for the 78mm TB and 4299 for the 74mm TB. Basically only 10% of potential flow area more between the two.. Again, 3000 grand for 10% potential flow, well that closed my wallet on that calculation alone. Note: this is my own personal buying process that I used to add the larger TB.. I say potential flow, as I have only calculated open area and not dynamic flow numbers. Flow testing both TB`s would give the exact picture..
Ok, this post is way to long, so trying to speed it up but a lot to cover here before I get shot
Here is the another area of flow blockage,, the throttle body shaft.. It is roughly 10mm in diameter by either 74mm long (stock) or 78mm long for the (80mm tb). That area alone blocks about 15% of your open flow of the S/C inlet or potentially more than the gain of the larger TB?? Of course many people grind down or even half shaft their TB shafts just to gain this flow back.. I do not recommend this ,as if done wrong the shaft could break and ruin your S/C. That being said,, I still shaved mine 3mm to fee up another 5% of the potential flow area.
Hell if 10% is worth 3000 grand , then 5% is worth 1500? Yes, I grinded my **** off. 
My 1000.00 kit consist of a $860.00 80mm 2007 SL55 TB modified to fit my 2003 55. Then one 80mm Y pipe and tube kit for $140.00. I then made a 80mm TB adaptor plate from 4x4x 1/2 alum. Then 80mm gasket matched ported my stock S/C inlet. Very easy but takes time and creativity to keep shavings out of the S/C. I cut a suction cup to go in the S/C inlet and then sucked shavings out of the cup. Again, not advised to do, as you still will get some alum. in the intake.. Hard to keep 100% out but then again taking the S/C off usually can have it bad points too.
Other small parts I just used favors to get samples of and my own time. time was still much less than re/re SC for a kit install.
How does it feel now?? Great! Nice crisp throttle response and less traction (next problem to address). 25 to 30 rwhp gain? I say no but do your own math..
We all have only a few ways to make our buying decisions on HP and I decided to use basic math for this MOD. Reading other dyno`s on motors that are highly sensitive to heat just was not enough to pull the 3000.00 trigger. Especially, since I fully believe a true 90mm to 100mm kit will come out for our cars and then what happens to my 3 grand and only 4mm increase in TB size?
I personally have always liked to mess with the intake side of an engine and so finding any larger TB is and addiction for my mod process
Feel free to fine tune calculations but I am just posting big picture info here.
Basically the stock TB is 74 or Radius of 37mm and the 80mm TB is really 78mm or 39mm Radius. Final area is 4775 for the 78mm TB and 4299 for the 74mm TB. Basically only 10% of potential flow area more between the two.. Again, 3000 grand for 10% potential flow, well that closed my wallet on that calculation alone. Note: this is my own personal buying process that I used to add the larger TB.. I say potential flow, as I have only calculated open area and not dynamic flow numbers. Flow testing both TB`s would give the exact picture..
Ok, this post is way to long, so trying to speed it up but a lot to cover here before I get shot
Here is the another area of flow blockage,, the throttle body shaft.. It is roughly 10mm in diameter by either 74mm long (stock) or 78mm long for the (80mm tb). That area alone blocks about 15% of your open flow of the S/C inlet or potentially more than the gain of the larger TB?? Of course many people grind down or even half shaft their TB shafts just to gain this flow back.. I do not recommend this ,as if done wrong the shaft could break and ruin your S/C. That being said,, I still shaved mine 3mm to fee up another 5% of the potential flow area.
Hell if 10% is worth 3000 grand , then 5% is worth 1500? Yes, I grinded my **** off. My 1000.00 kit consist of a $860.00 80mm 2007 SL55 TB modified to fit my 2003 55. Then one 80mm Y pipe and tube kit for $140.00. I then made a 80mm TB adaptor plate from 4x4x 1/2 alum. Then 80mm gasket matched ported my stock S/C inlet. Very easy but takes time and creativity to keep shavings out of the S/C. I cut a suction cup to go in the S/C inlet and then sucked shavings out of the cup. Again, not advised to do, as you still will get some alum. in the intake.. Hard to keep 100% out but then again taking the S/C off usually can have it bad points too.
Other small parts I just used favors to get samples of and my own time. time was still much less than re/re SC for a kit install.
How does it feel now?? Great! Nice crisp throttle response and less traction (next problem to address).
25 to 30 rwhp gain? I say no but do your own math..
__________________
E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
Last edited by Exotic-metal55; 09-19-2008 at 07:40 PM.
09-19-2008, 03:40 PM
#2
Good work...you have been on a serious mission with your TB mod.
I too can get parts for around 1k and install should be around $350-400.
The cat is out of the bag.
It was inevitable that this mod would be uncovered.
I too can get parts for around 1k and install should be around $350-400.
The cat is out of the bag.
It was inevitable that this mod would be uncovered.
09-19-2008, 05:09 PM
#3
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great job!
You do have tuning already if I recall....
I figure the more air you are getting to the engine.. the more the bypass valve would stay open?
I'm still puzzled why we just can't "mechanically" reduce how much the bypass valve opens.
You do have tuning already if I recall....
I figure the more air you are getting to the engine.. the more the bypass valve would stay open?
I'm still puzzled why we just can't "mechanically" reduce how much the bypass valve opens.
09-19-2008, 05:18 PM
#4
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2003 E55 AMG
Well really the so called 80mm Tb is only 78mm. Give or take a fraction of a MM. At least the latest model many of us use off the 2007 SL55. It would be an assumption but makes sense the other 3 80mm TB`s measure the same general ID. Some say measure the blade but it is angled and so that number is skewed. Some measure the TB lip but it is flared out and also not a fair number. So that leaves the plain old inside diameter or smallest area of flow.. 78mm + or-.. Stock is 74mm + or -.. So once I paid 860.00 to get one in my hand, I was like wow not to much difference in potential flow area gain for 2500 to 3000 installed. Forget posted dyno`s, butt meter and advertised gains. So, I then decided after being disappointed in seeing only 4mm difference to put math to this and decide how to proceed. (Please don’t shoot yet),, this all just my thought process and how I came up with my value.
We all have only a few ways to make our buying decisions on HP and I decided to use basic math for this MOD. Reading other dyno`s on motors that are highly sensitive to heat just was not enough to pull the 3000.00 trigger. Especially, since I fully believe a true 90mm to 100mm kit will come out for our cars and then what happens to my 3 grand and only 4mm increase in TB size?
Have their been discussions on a 90-100mm throttle body kit?
I personally have always liked to mess with the intake side of an engine and so finding any larger TB is and addiction for my mod process
Feel free to fine tune calculations but I am just posting big picture info here.
Basically the stock TB is 74 or Radius of 37mm and the 80mm TB is really 78mm or 39mm Radius. Final area is 4775 for the 78mm TB and 4299 for the 74mm TB. Basically only 10% of potential flow area more between the two.. Again, 3000 grand for 10% potential flow, well that closed my wallet on that calculation alone. Note: this is my own personal buying process that I used to add the larger TB.. I say potential flow, as I have only calculated open area and not dynamic flow numbers. Flow testing both TB`s would give the exact picture..
What percentage of potential flow were you looking for?
Ok, this post is way to long, so trying to speed it up but a lot to cover here before I get shot
Here is the other area of flow blockage,, the throttle body shaft.. It is roughly 9mm in diameter by either 74mm long (stock) or 78mm long for the (80mm tb). That area alone blocks about 15% of your open flow of the S/C inlet or potentially more than the gain of the larger TB?? Of course many people grind down or even half shaft their TB shafts just to gain this flow back.. I do not recommend this ,as if done wrong the shaft could break and ruin your S/C. That being said,, I still shaved mine 3mm to fee up another 5% of the potential flow area. Hell if 10% is worth 3000 grand , then 5% is worth 1500? Yes, I grinded my **** off.
My 1000.00 kit consist of a $860.00 80mm 2007 SL55 TB modified to fit my 2003 55. Then one 80mm Y pipe and tube kit for $140.00. I then made a 80mm TB adaptor plate from 4x4x 1/2 alum. and then 80mm gasket ported my stock S/C inlet. Very easy but takes time and creativity to keep shavings out of the S/C. I cut a suction cup to go in the S/C inlet and then sucked shavings out of the cup. Again, not advised to do, as you still will get some alum. in the intake.. Hard to keep 100% out but then again taking the S/C off usually can have it bad points too.
Other small parts I just used favors to get samples and my own time. time was still much less than re/re SC for a kit install.
How does it feel now?? Great! Nice crisp throttle response and less traction (next problem to address). 25 to 30 rwhp gain? I say no but do your own math..
We all have only a few ways to make our buying decisions on HP and I decided to use basic math for this MOD. Reading other dyno`s on motors that are highly sensitive to heat just was not enough to pull the 3000.00 trigger. Especially, since I fully believe a true 90mm to 100mm kit will come out for our cars and then what happens to my 3 grand and only 4mm increase in TB size?
Have their been discussions on a 90-100mm throttle body kit?
I personally have always liked to mess with the intake side of an engine and so finding any larger TB is and addiction for my mod process
Feel free to fine tune calculations but I am just posting big picture info here.
Basically the stock TB is 74 or Radius of 37mm and the 80mm TB is really 78mm or 39mm Radius. Final area is 4775 for the 78mm TB and 4299 for the 74mm TB. Basically only 10% of potential flow area more between the two.. Again, 3000 grand for 10% potential flow, well that closed my wallet on that calculation alone. Note: this is my own personal buying process that I used to add the larger TB.. I say potential flow, as I have only calculated open area and not dynamic flow numbers. Flow testing both TB`s would give the exact picture..
What percentage of potential flow were you looking for?
Ok, this post is way to long, so trying to speed it up but a lot to cover here before I get shot
Here is the other area of flow blockage,, the throttle body shaft.. It is roughly 9mm in diameter by either 74mm long (stock) or 78mm long for the (80mm tb). That area alone blocks about 15% of your open flow of the S/C inlet or potentially more than the gain of the larger TB?? Of course many people grind down or even half shaft their TB shafts just to gain this flow back.. I do not recommend this ,as if done wrong the shaft could break and ruin your S/C. That being said,, I still shaved mine 3mm to fee up another 5% of the potential flow area.
Hell if 10% is worth 3000 grand , then 5% is worth 1500? Yes, I grinded my **** off. My 1000.00 kit consist of a $860.00 80mm 2007 SL55 TB modified to fit my 2003 55. Then one 80mm Y pipe and tube kit for $140.00. I then made a 80mm TB adaptor plate from 4x4x 1/2 alum. and then 80mm gasket ported my stock S/C inlet. Very easy but takes time and creativity to keep shavings out of the S/C. I cut a suction cup to go in the S/C inlet and then sucked shavings out of the cup. Again, not advised to do, as you still will get some alum. in the intake.. Hard to keep 100% out but then again taking the S/C off usually can have it bad points too.
Other small parts I just used favors to get samples and my own time. time was still much less than re/re SC for a kit install.
How does it feel now?? Great! Nice crisp throttle response and less traction (next problem to address).
25 to 30 rwhp gain? I say no but do your own math..
09-19-2008, 05:54 PM
#5
PLATINUM SPONSOR
Thread Starter
I do not have a tune and have not been able to get very much information what I would get. A tune is a very serious mod and you have to know/learn what you are getting. Until people want to share more info about tunes on this forum, I will not donate my brain to be operated on.. To me just paying for a tune (to say I have a tune) is like having a doctor operate on your brain and not ask any questions..
I am going to dyno soon and run more data logging ..All I can say,is the car runs great! Yes, it took a few miles to smooth out but the more WOT time the faster we go.. My ATAP is being re-flashed and should be back next week. I then can double check all the parameters. Right now,, the pulley and TB is a damn nice combo! Just need a little cooler weather and track times will be next..
Here is a picture of the Aluminum adaptor and 80mm TB. I used a small table drill press to do the work. I used a 3 1/8 th hole saw, few drill bits and die grinder to port and open gaskets up.. Of course when the 95-100mm TB comes out,, I will be paying to play then.. 4mm increase is just $1000 band-aid for now..
I am going to dyno soon and run more data logging ..All I can say,is the car runs great! Yes, it took a few miles to smooth out but the more WOT time the faster we go.. My ATAP is being re-flashed and should be back next week. I then can double check all the parameters. Right now,, the pulley and TB is a damn nice combo! Just need a little cooler weather and track times will be next..
Here is a picture of the Aluminum adaptor and 80mm TB. I used a small table drill press to do the work. I used a 3 1/8 th hole saw, few drill bits and die grinder to port and open gaskets up.. Of course when the 95-100mm TB comes out,, I will be paying to play then.. 4mm increase is just $1000 band-aid for now..
Last edited by Exotic-metal55; 09-19-2008 at 08:00 PM.
09-19-2008, 06:21 PM
#6
I do not have a tune and have not been able to get very much information what I would get. A tune is a very serious mod and you have to know/learn what you are getting. Until people want to share more info about tunes on this forum, I will not donate my brain to be operated on.. To me just paying for a tune (to say I have a tune) is like having a doctor operate on your brain and not ask any questions..
I am going to dyno soon and run more data logging ..All I can say,is the car runs great! Yes, it took a few miles to smooth out but the more WOT time the faster we go.. My ATAP is being re-flashed and should be back next week. I then can double check all the parameters. Right now,, the pulley and TB is a damn nice combo! Just need a little cooler weather and track times will be next..
Here is a picture of the Aluminum adaptor and 80mm TB. I used a small table drill press to do the work. I used a 3 1/8 th hole saw, few drill bits and die grinder to port and open gaskets up.. Of course when the 95-100mm TB comes out,, I will be paying to play then.. 4mm increase is just $1000 band-aid for now..
I am going to dyno soon and run more data logging ..All I can say,is the car runs great! Yes, it took a few miles to smooth out but the more WOT time the faster we go.. My ATAP is being re-flashed and should be back next week. I then can double check all the parameters. Right now,, the pulley and TB is a damn nice combo! Just need a little cooler weather and track times will be next..
Here is a picture of the Aluminum adaptor and 80mm TB. I used a small table drill press to do the work. I used a 3 1/8 th hole saw, few drill bits and die grinder to port and open gaskets up.. Of course when the 95-100mm TB comes out,, I will be paying to play then.. 4mm increase is just $1000 band-aid for now..
awesome work there!!!! very impressive! would love to see more pics of the ground down throttlebody, also do you happen to have a larger size image of the one posted-bmp you attached is tiny
09-20-2008, 11:45 AM
#7
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2006 E55
I have a local machine shop that bores out throttle bodies on porsche DBW cars. They have several throttle plates available up to 100mm IIRC. If you want to send them your TB and see what they can do let me know.
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09-20-2008, 05:56 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
The 80mm TB has very, very little meat to port out.. These fly by wire TB`s are tricky to port too. I had a stock 74mm TB ported and could not get it to idle right..
The port work would be nice, as you could probably still add another 10% of AREA gains over a 74 mm TB going to a ported 80mm (20-30%) over stock... Especially with a thinner brass butterfly flap, 3mm off the shaft and port out to a true 80-81mm max (no more room)..
Gollard, I will pull my TB back off in a few weeks and take more pictures.. Just need to data log and dyno some first.. I do not know how to post those full page pictures..
Below are some pictures of a ported TB shaft . This is extreme porting of the shaft, also known as half shafting.. I would not go to this extreme but many do.. I took 1mm off the screw head side of the sahft and 2mm of the bottom..Instead of grinding 50% (half shafting) ,, I went about 30%.. I still want more AIR!!
http://www.phantomss.com/camaro/portedtb/index.shtml
The port work would be nice, as you could probably still add another 10% of AREA gains over a 74 mm TB going to a ported 80mm (20-30%) over stock... Especially with a thinner brass butterfly flap, 3mm off the shaft and port out to a true 80-81mm max (no more room)..
Gollard, I will pull my TB back off in a few weeks and take more pictures.. Just need to data log and dyno some first.. I do not know how to post those full page pictures..
Below are some pictures of a ported TB shaft . This is extreme porting of the shaft, also known as half shafting.. I would not go to this extreme but many do.. I took 1mm off the screw head side of the sahft and 2mm of the bottom..Instead of grinding 50% (half shafting) ,, I went about 30%.. I still want more AIR!!
http://www.phantomss.com/camaro/portedtb/index.shtml
Last edited by Exotic-metal55; 09-20-2008 at 06:16 PM.
09-22-2008, 02:35 AM
#10
The 80mm TB has very, very little meat to port out.. These fly by wire TB`s are tricky to port too. I had a stock 74mm TB ported and could not get it to idle right..
The port work would be nice, as you could probably still add another 10% of AREA gains over a 74 mm TB going to a ported 80mm (20-30%) over stock... Especially with a thinner brass butterfly flap, 3mm off the shaft and port out to a true 80-81mm max (no more room)..
Gollard, I will pull my TB back off in a few weeks and take more pictures.. Just need to data log and dyno some first.. I do not know how to post those full page pictures..
Below are some pictures of a ported TB shaft . This is extreme porting of the shaft, also known as half shafting.. I would not go to this extreme but many do.. I took 1mm off the screw head side of the sahft and 2mm of the bottom..Instead of grinding 50% (half shafting) ,, I went about 30%.. I still want more AIR!!
http://www.phantomss.com/camaro/portedtb/index.shtml
The port work would be nice, as you could probably still add another 10% of AREA gains over a 74 mm TB going to a ported 80mm (20-30%) over stock... Especially with a thinner brass butterfly flap, 3mm off the shaft and port out to a true 80-81mm max (no more room)..
Gollard, I will pull my TB back off in a few weeks and take more pictures.. Just need to data log and dyno some first.. I do not know how to post those full page pictures..
Below are some pictures of a ported TB shaft . This is extreme porting of the shaft, also known as half shafting.. I would not go to this extreme but many do.. I took 1mm off the screw head side of the sahft and 2mm of the bottom..Instead of grinding 50% (half shafting) ,, I went about 30%.. I still want more AIR!!
http://www.phantomss.com/camaro/portedtb/index.shtml
Thanks so much for your feedback. This is very educating and makes really want to find a 78mm TB and start grinding...can't wait to find out more about your results. Keep up the great work and thanks again for sharing!
