EastCoastAMG

Starting a new (similar) thread as 9 pages of what is starting to look like alot of non-sense is just too much to go through. Here are the facts as confirmed by me personally and just confirmed by MB of Boston:

ALL stock C63's are programmed to shift from 1st to 2nd gear at 7,000 RPM's! THESE ARE NOT LIKE OUR E63's which shift at 6,200.

I took a C63 with 83 miles on it for a 8 mile test drive. I REPEATEDLY (atleast 6 times, maybe 10) tested this. EVERYTIME it shifted at exactly the same spot - 7,000rpm's.

You mentioned that yours shifts were at all different points when stock- 6,200 - 6,800. Think about it. Does that make sense? Do you really think that AMG didn't program it to shift at the same point everytime under WOT? Even though my E63 sucks because it shifts at 6,200, it does it EVERYTIME consistently.

The MB dealer just confirmed that the 7,000rpm limit is correct on the C63 as AMG intentionally allows it do the 57HP <less> difference (interestingly, they were more concerned about the HP then TQ?).

For those of you who don't believe this its easy, set aside 1 hour this weekend and go to the MB dealer. Anyone rolling in with an 55, 600, 63 etc will have no problem getting the dealer to let you out in one (and yes they are around, this dealer had 2 on hand).

Lastly, that car is running 12.4 - 12.5 stock. Just by using drag radials, going to a lighter battery, lighter wheels and the air filter change you will be exactly where you were - 12.1.

Please, prove me wrong, show me a video of an E63 shifting from 1st to 2nd at 7,000 - 7,100!!! Otherwise, that was alot of wasted time...

MHP

LOL, unbelievable...

Post this in the 204 Forum.

I should've taken vids of the car shifting when it was stock, but again as others that own the car (not just test drive for fifteen minutes LOL) will confirm the 1-2 shift and even 2-3 is VERY inconsistant.
Before running your mouth about where a car should be running at the strip, try it yourself and also explain to me why we haven't seen any Kleeman, Renntech, Brabus, etc C63s running at the strip even though they've been doing this for 20+ years?

As for the 1-2 shift inconsistancy not making any sense to you, it does to me. All 63s have the inconsistancy and I'm sure everyone that actually owns the car can verify this.

Thanks

MB_Forever

EastCoastAMG, I will not disagree (or agree) with you on the stock C63 shift points because I haven't driven one yet, but I do disagree with you on the stock E63 shifting consistency. My E63 (which is bone stock) will sometime shift at 6200 rpm, other times it'll shift at 6400 rpm, other times it'll shift at 6600 rpm, and very rare times, it'll shift at 6900 rpm. I've seen this on 2 E63s and on 2 CLS63 (Juicee's car and Samsonz). The 1st to 2nd shift is inconsistent.

Additionally, I posted these results on the AMG private lounge, asking why the inconsistency of the shift from 1st to 2nd while every other shift is consistent at 7200 rpm. They replied saying that because the shift from 1st to 2nd involves so many factors, they let the computers pick the most optimum time to ****. This is an admission from AMG themselves and not some article on a website. The thread still exists and it's still available for all members to read.

tuningtechnician

Andy-
Don't even waste your time with this clown. I bet he is a friend if jangy's!
Remember our conversation last week, these clowns are below you and Dave and the realm of what you are accomplishing. It makes no sense to be even replying to their posts since they aren't listening or understanding what you are saying.
Now get back to work and finish putting the touches on some of the really paramount developments that you guys have been working on!
MIR will be the "seeing is believing" truth for what these people are so desperately wishing for(and for you to fail).
Dyno numbers are the biggest sham in the tuning business. You know that and I know that but it seems like most of these forum "experts" don't have a clue.
I think there is going to be the largest plate of crow in the history of EATING CROW when these people remove their heads from their a$$es and give you props!

MHP

Thanks Bruce, in the meantime he can chew on this:

Just got back from the dyno. The runs posted below are 5th gear (1:1) SAE corrected, hood down, using the same dynojet I always use. I made one pull in 4th gear after and made 433rwhp/383rwtq (+6rwhp and -10rwtq over 5th gear).

427rwhp/394rwtq SAE (Using 17.5% DT loss that's 518hp/478tq @ the flywheel, using 20% DT loss 534hp/493tq):



Compared to stock (sorry no TQ #s for stock since we had to splice into the coil pack wiring today to get the wire isolated, there will be TQ #s from here on out):



As far as I know our V1 tuning just beat every other C63 ECU reflash on the market, and the best part is A/F actually dipped into the 11s at 5800rpm meaning there's an easy 15-18rwhp (a tad more timing in v2 as well) left in the car in a SAFE revision.

For frame of reference look at Rentech's results in 4th gear (producing higher #s than 5th):



Using my 5th gear numbers we're making 33rwtq SAE (counting the 10rwtq I lost going from 4th v 5th gear dynos that's 23rwtq SAE actual) and 15rwhp SAE (counting the +6rwhp loss I saw going from 4th to 5th that's 21rwhp SAE actual), and again we have another 15-18rw coming in v2.
Using my 4th gear numbers (direct comparison) we're up 20rwhp/23rwtq SAE on them.


Finally, me running a 2700lb cam'd LS1/RX7 on the way home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilxsELYazbw


So again, I'm calling it right now. We'll be at ~440rw SAE in 5th gear on a DJ with v2, and we should also breach 400rwtq SAE as well with just filters/tuning on a 2400 mile C63.

Renntech, Kleeman, Brabus, whoever, I'll make the offer to run against a similarly modded car of yours ANY day.

Thanks
Andy

EastCoastAMG

Andy, all looks good thanks. I am in line waiting to place my order, really. I just want to see the E63 tach hit 7,000RPM's in first. My ECU/TCU will be on its way. Please post as soon as you can. Thanks

MHP

Good deal.

Trust me, I want more data to come in asap as much as you do!

LZH

I find it hard to believe that anyone can pinpoint exactly where their car is shifting. Sure, you can get close....but just looking at the regular analogue tach is very difficult when the car is shifting to say, "that was 6900, that was 6450, that was 6200, etc".
Please, to get EXACT measurments you need a digital data logger. Just looking at the tach when it shifts and guessing where it just shifted is VERY inaccurate.

gollard

how about using the ear to measure the RPM?

bobgodd

Wow dude, calm down. It's not that serious

tuningtechnician

Another voice from the peanut gallery.

Have you even been watching the other thread about this whole scenario? If not then you shouldn't be addressing something that you are not in tune with.

You should just stay on the sidelines and watch. It seems that's where you've been anyway.

dc63er

My biggest problem is the outrageous MB tax on this. Obviously charge what you can but if I want to turn my car back to stock I have nothing to sell right? If I spend 6k on hard items I can at elast recoup some of my investment.

So there is 1 guy who is the man at ecu/tcu programming. That's cool, great for that guy but does he really have hundreds and hundreds of hours into this program or are MB enthusiasts funding your or supporting your research into other areas. Ie if you sold 100 of these would this not be your most profitable product you offer? It's capitalism at its best but if "we" would hold the line somewhere maybe the mb tax would subside. Like VRP seems to have been able to do the best in my opinion.

MHP

Welcome to the aftermarket, you never get back what you put in unless you own a Supra. That being said, why on earth would you think that headers/CAIs, etc. (parts that won't gain you anywhere near the power, ET reductions or trap gains our tuning will) would earn you anything back on resale?
By the same token, if you can find someone willing to pay for headers/CAIs, whatever, what makes you think they won't pay more for tuning that kicks the **** out of all the other mods out there?

This is the last time I'm addressing this kind of comment.There is one company that's head and shoulders above the rest in the world of MB (and many others) tuning, and that's how it's going to stay for sometime. Again, and no offense but obviously you have no idea how long it takes to program a MB/AMG ECU or TCU to the level that we do--none at all. All calibrations are 100% custom and code is simply not copied from one table and pasted to another, that can't be done. So to answer your question, YES we EASILY have 100s of hours into these cal's to date, and that number will continually grow as time passes on. That's how it works. Hell, we have 48hrs into Marko's CL65 TCU alone, and again, we can't reuse or copy tables to anyone else's TCU from it.
Just like everyone else in the world, we expect to get paid for what we do, especially when the end result is better than you'll find anywhere else.
If you want the best, don't expect to pay the least. If you choose to sit on the sidelines so be it, but our pricing isn't going anywhere; we'll simply explore other higher end markets.


Thanks
Andy

tuningtechnician

Well said Andy!

Timeless

Pretty much like any other R&D...loads of time and capital up front in the hopes you can produce it later for much less labor and more profit.

Eventually you will have a set tune for different cars of different mod levels. That set tune will be the most you are comfortable with and still leave room for the car to be safe. At that time you will start to break even and hopefully make money.

Good luck and I am also looking forward to seeing some amazing results.