jangy

Obviously, the "best" setup will have us rebuilding the engine with proper internals. But, that isn't the reality of what can and is going on.

Will the drivetrain handle the added boost? No way to know, but sure anyone trying it needs to keep that in mind. Can we learn nothing from Jim's CLK-BS? Is NOS not adding the same type of strain? I don't know jack about NOS, but is there a way to compare boost in psi? The shots mean nothing to me. Point being, if you are willing to tear down the motor and rebuild it with aftermarket parts, then why not do some testing up front? You lose nothing and you gain the momentum of the project. As long as nobody does anything, we will all be waiting for the best system to be developed and nobody will be working on a realistic (to the end user) setup. What few tuners do some work, they will sell it as a one off for $$, so that leaves us to play and learn.

Now back to the 63. First, you MUST have someone who can tune it. Not just the ECU in the car but a brand spanking new one from the dealership. To date, I have seen ONE person who can do this and he isn't related to this forum. If other tuners can get it done, then they need to demonstrate it. Simple as that. The project will go NOWHERE without a cooperative tuner. Just to be clear, you don't need to wait for the SC to be on the car to prove that you can code a new ECU.

Next comes the hardware. Luckily, the CLS and E body were designed by the older EU standards and so we have lots of room under the hood. A Kenny Bell sits in there perfectly with no need to modify the hood. Add a gasket to lower compression as much as reasonable.

Boost:
Add about 4psi. that takes the car up to 15ish to 1. Maybe MB motors are different but I know of MANY high compression cars that have done the exact same thing with good results.

Too bad rarfinancial went back to the dark side, not that I blame him. We need another 63 to step up and be the guinea pig.

LZH

Jangy - I've spoken to a few tuners about this. We spent quite a bit of time discussing this topic and the superchager route just didn't make sense when compared to twin turbos. Everyone I spoke to said the same thing about the stock 63 compression...it's too high in stock form to effectively and safely run boost and using a head gasket to lower compression for added boost was only asking for trouble. Changing out pistons was the only right answer for longevity and safety. This was not only MY opinion, but also the opinion of the tuners I spoke to...and you can guess who that would have been.
Our discussions included pulling the motor and tearing it down...inspection of all stock parts for any defects whatsoever, pressure testing the block and making sure it would have no prob with the additional boost, then reassembly with upgraded parts, rotating assembly, lower comp pistons, etc. After all was said and done, to do it RIGHT, it would have been between $40 and $50k. I decided I'd rather repower my boat - the Black Series is fast enough in stock form for a street car.
Then, when you compare what Evosport has done to Jrcarts car with a tune and simple bolt on's.....100 extra hp over stock...the FI debate for the 63 motor becomes moot. It's just not worth the cost and risk. Sure it would be bad ***, but even Jrcart can't put the power to the ground as you well know.

jangy

I am not attacking you in any way, but so what if a tuner said no? I do know who and we don't need to get into how well their 63 tuning has gone. I would still say and do the same things even if a reputable tuner didn't want to touch it.

Agreed that adding the gasket is a band aid, but looking for trouble? Worst case, you blow it if it is too big. Honestly, I wasn't thinking of a big gasket, more of a phenolic spacer.

Why is the stock 63 not able to take boost? Again, I am talking about 4psi. Would these same experts say not to try NOS on the car?

I do not see an advantage in TTs, from a fun perspective. Once rolling, the 63 is a monster. It is missing the GRUNT and that is all I want the SC for.

Anyhow, thanks for the post and please continue to give feedback. I never meant to get personal with you. I wrongfully attacked the owners of the cars instead of just the source of my concerns and that was wrong of me.

LZH

I've let bygones be bygones, glad to see you have too. Unfortunate others here haven't.
Don't get me wrong....one tuner in particular was very interested in doing this. I simply was not willing to throw my warranty away and pay that kind of $$ for it. As I said, I think the Black Series is very near perfect in stock form and see only the need for very small changes (intake, exhaust and a tune).
Phenolic spacers would get blown to shreds under any sort of boost. I'm not saying FI for the 63 motor couldn't be done. I'm just saying the cost and risk associated with the potential gains did not make sense to me for a street car.

E55Pilot

BWAHAHAHAH

I think you need to get an E63 and give that a try Jangy............

blackbenzz

Kleemann has been running 7PSI of boost on 11:1 c/r 55's for quite some time now on pump gas...

LZH

The stock 55k is 9.0:1. Clearly, whatever car you are talking about has way more mods. Just another blanket statement, Ahmad. Give it a rest.

blackbenzz

Go look up a stock C55, SLK55, etc etc compression ratio. Kleemann blowers on these cars run 7PSI with 11:1 compression ratio. What dooes the amount of mods have to do with anything? The topic at hand is whether a 11:1 c/r car can safely run forced induction. I advise you do some more research instead of throwing out random statements and opinions so that you can at least come across as somewhat knowledgeable.

LZH

This is the W211 forum right ?? I thought we were discussing the 63 motor compared to the below E55 motor. You can bring up whatever else you like to substantiate your point, Ahmad. It's clear you have an agenda here and it isn't to add anything productive to this thread. I've done my research and spent lots of time talking to many others WAY more informed than you about FI for the 63. You wanna make this about apples and oranges....go right ahead but I'm not gonna stoop to your level and engage you any further. Not worth my time. The fact that you would even consider lowering compression with a head gasket to add boost speaks volumes about you, your knowledge, and that ricer hooptie you drive.




MERCEDES-BENZ E55 AMG
Vehicle type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger,
4-door sedan
ENGINE
Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .supercharged and intercooled V-8,
aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3.82 x 3.62 in, 97.0 x 92.0mm
Displacement . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .332 cu in, 5439cc
Compression ratio . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9.0:1
Engine-control system . . . . . . . . . . .Bosch Motronic ME2.8 with
port fuel injection
Emissions controls . . . . . . .3-way catalytic converter, feedback
air-fuel-ratio control, EGR,
auxiliary air pump
Supercharger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .IHI
Maximum boost pressure . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .13.1 psi
Valve gear . . . . . . .chain-driven single overhead cams, 3 valves
per cylinder, hydraulic lifters
Power (SAE net) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .469 bhp @ 6100 rpm
Torque (SAE net) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .516 lb-ft @ 2650 rpm

E55Pilot

The answer is yes 11:1 can safely run forced induction

blackbenzz

Since you are so smart, what is a big difference between the 11:1 c/r 55 engines and the W211 E55 engines? COMPRESSION RATIO! What are we discussing? COMPRESSION RATIO! Do you not see the correlation? I thought I made it rather obvious and tried to make it simple for your mind to grasp. Do you think your 63 engine defies the laws of physics? No, same rules apply to my hooptie as your Gods chariot CLK63 BS. FYI- I have not altered my compression ratio using a head gasket, I said it was an option. My car is running 10.5:1 c/r. I like my ricer hooptie, does it make you feel better insulting people because they point out your incorrect statements? This hooptie doesn't need to use nitrous to keep up
Exactly

LZH

LOL - Yeah I know Ahmad....You have your own goals and only race against yourself. LOL. Your sig looks like a bunch of bs baseball stats with a qualification for everything. If you wanted to be the fastest then you would run nitrous. Still the sore loser....
Yes, the same rules apply to both cars regarding comp ratio. But you fail to understand that the n/a 63 motor performs very differently than your 55 in terms of where and how it builds power. What is your redline ? Sure, the 63 would probably be able to handle the added boost with no other internal changes. It would however require a totally new ECU program. Sure, it'll do it, but it wouldn't be the ideal setup which would be changing pistons to run even higher boost. I mean if your gonna go to all the trouble of throwing a blower on there....why cheap out and limit the amount of boost you can run because you wanted to cut corners. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. I don't cut corners or take chances. I do things the right way the first time. Yes, it may be overkill and more expensive, but it's bulletproof and not band-aid'ing soemthing with a head gasket...But, I guess when you're used to dealing with hoopties where the mods are worth more than the car...that becomes your M.O.

c32AMG-DTM

LZH - FWIW, I typically enjoy your posts... but IMHO these last couple were pretty out-of-line. 11.0x ET's are nothing to sneeze at, and Blackbenzz's ability to get there by starting with the N/A M113 is pretty remarkable. I believe he has the Kleemann S/C kit, which AFAIK is designed, engineered, and R&D'd for the exact engine he has (in it's N/A form, without altering any internals).

Oh, and since when is a modded MB even remotely "ricer"? It's not like his car has a ridiculous wing and VTEC stickers all over it...

Agree that "cutting corners" isn't a preferred way to mod - but sometimes one man's "cutting corners" is another's "best bang for the buck." Keep in mind, not every MB enthusiast has the budget to start with a $$$,$$$ car and put $$,$$$ worth of mods into it...

jangy

There's my tail.....Good to have you back!

E55Pilot

Unlike you Jangy, I never "Left". You seem to know plenty about tails since you're always hanging on them...

Now I encourage you to try your Phenolic headgasket.

Tech-Tune

Very well put.
Deserved to be quoted!

ProjectC55

+1+1+1 I also guess LZH measures his ***** size based on the MB he drives!

LZH

And here come all the hacks....yeah.
I've never said anything about Ahmads times...they are quite good, all things considered. But, I really don't care for drag racing that much....espscially AMG's drag racing. I'm sure that statement will ruffle a few feathers, but I really don't care. If you wanna go fast at the drags, there are plenty of other sub 11 sec cars out there that can do it easily and cheaper than an AMG - hence my comments about Ahmads car.

jangy

No, you didn't leave. Too bad. I didn't get the tail joke, but keep up the good work.

JYOO

+2
I dont know either of you, Im just trying to educate myself before I make my change, but LZH is making it harder for me. OK OK u have an expensive car u da man, everyone should spend like you or theyre ricers, get da fucc outta here freakin *ag.

LZH

Mmmmkay, gangsta

JYOO

Youre right Im sorry, I have to work on dat. Uncalled for, just habit.

URnext

Coming from someone that took their car to Fontana to drag race

LZH

LOL - I figured someone would take that bait...of course you....hook line and sinker, Sally. I'm flattered you remember
Or, would you prefer I say I don't like something having never tried it ?? LOL At least I can say, I speak from experience...

URnext

Speak from experience, LOL! The same way you speak from experience on the X-pipes

BTW, If I ran as horrible as you did down that 1320, I would have given up on drag racing too So why do keep going to Willow Springs? Is there anything your good at?