Taking the right path........
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,513
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From: In a box
W211 E55
The OEM is crap, no matter how you slice it. The newest version lasted a whopping 3 months in my car.
The CM30 is a proven, reliable upgrade. If you don't think the flow is sufficiently improved over stock, you should unplug the bleed valve and see the stuff shoot across the garage.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 404
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From: Lower NY Area
2003 E55 Blk/Blk
Stock is like 15-20 liters a minute flow, meaning the johnson cm30 pump is barely an upgrade in flow efficiency but merely an upgrade in reliability.
The davies pump is like 80 lpm...its a no brainer...ps its goona shoot across the garage regardless
The davies pump is like 80 lpm...its a no brainer...ps its goona shoot across the garage regardless
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Terrible info.
The OEM is crap, no matter how you slice it. The newest version lasted a whopping 3 months in my car.
The CM30 is a proven, reliable upgrade. If you don't think the flow is sufficiently improved over stock, you should unplug the bleed valve and see the stuff shoot across the garage.
The OEM is crap, no matter how you slice it. The newest version lasted a whopping 3 months in my car.
The CM30 is a proven, reliable upgrade. If you don't think the flow is sufficiently improved over stock, you should unplug the bleed valve and see the stuff shoot across the garage.
As far as flow, sure the CM30 is about 25% better than the OEM one. You consider that sufficient, I don't.
But that again, isn't the point is it? Let's review the facts:
The Davies pump is designed for this exact application with a hermetically sealed, brushless, and compact system. The ports are larger than even the CM90 and itis rated at 80L/min vs the 25L/min that the CM30 is. To top it all off, it costs $200.
So please go back to claiming misinformation, but get rid of those pumps ASAP!!
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,513
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From: In a box
W211 E55
My car is also under warranty - but I refused the option of going through the same routine and took the path of least resistance for my application. Free isn't always better. Unless you like driving the C-classes given out as loaners...
I guess with all of your experience with upgraded cooling on these cars, you would have found out what a pain the larger orifices are to work with, and would have seen that the CM30 is sufficient to run an 11.41.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
The wiring is completely stock, right down to the connectors. Swing and a miss.
Hmmm, I'm out of ideas. Why do you think yours lasted so much less time than typical?
My car is also under warranty - but I refused the option of going through the same routine and took the path of least resistance for my application. Free isn't always better. Unless you like driving the C-classes given out as loaners...
You got me there. I never had my OEM Bosch go out on me but I still wanted to upgrade so off it came.
I guess with all of your experience with upgraded cooling on these cars, you would have found out what a pain the larger orifices are to work with, and would have seen that the CM30 is sufficient to run an 11.41.
Hmmm, I'm out of ideas. Why do you think yours lasted so much less time than typical?
My car is also under warranty - but I refused the option of going through the same routine and took the path of least resistance for my application. Free isn't always better. Unless you like driving the C-classes given out as loaners...
You got me there. I never had my OEM Bosch go out on me but I still wanted to upgrade so off it came.
I guess with all of your experience with upgraded cooling on these cars, you would have found out what a pain the larger orifices are to work with, and would have seen that the CM30 is sufficient to run an 11.41.
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GMC - Miata - Trek - P-Car
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 404
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From: Lower NY Area
2003 E55 Blk/Blk
thats still tiny numbers. Yea the percentage sounds high but what does that really equate to and extra 7.5 lpm thats nothing. Sufficient isnt the same to everyone on here. The Cm30 is sufficient to run low 11 pass but what does that tell me about how hot the car is and how the next pass will be? You can run that stock after icing the charger...but only once...
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Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,513
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From: In a box
W211 E55
I would opine that in severe duty (Chi-town potholes) apps, the vibrations cause damage to the brushes/magnets that leads to failure.
Every Bosch pump I've dissected had what looked like copy toner all over the windings and inside the housing.
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 0
From: In a box
W211 E55
thats still tiny numbers. Yea the percentage sounds high but what does that really equate to and extra 7.5 lpm thats nothing. Sufficient isnt the same to everyone on here. The Cm30 is sufficient to run low 11 pass but what does that tell me about how hot the car is and how the next pass will be? You can run that stock after icing the charger...but only once...
The real need is heat rejection, aka a larger Heat Exchanger. The E55s pull timing in three stages for both water temps and IAT. If you hit one half-degree over the threshold, you can say sayonara to up to 9.5 degrees of ignition timing and the power that goes with it.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Per Vadim, “Johnson is smaller physically, but delivers 50% more flow (22.5 L/min vs 15L/min)” from his thread.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
With higher flow, you will be pumping hot coolant back into the charge cooler potentially before you even complete the 1/4 mile. Dwell is a good thing for heat transfer. Also, the hotter the delta, the more efficiently the system works. Pumping warmer coolant faster won't necessarily make it perform better.
But, for me and many members, a single run means nothing. We are after more consistency overall, not just during a small window in time. Again, your point of keeping the cycled fluid out until after the run makes loads of sense and I could see where a higher capacity pump would do nothing (or even harm) your setup.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 404
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From: Lower NY Area
2003 E55 Blk/Blk
I agree with Chicago X that the idea is to get a larger heat exchanger but no Im not into drag racing Im into the realm of longevity. But Im more in Jangys boat of consistency. Jangy your sig doesnt help your point lol jk man. A pump with higher lpm mated to a larger heat exchanger that can cool faster is pure sex
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 171
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From: Upstate NY
W211 E55
A perfect example is when my car went 11.60 this month while it was on FULL BOIL. Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7SbHcg_rGY.
Yes, did the heat rob me of some trap speed. Of course. Find me a car where that doesn't happen. But, to say you CANNOT run back to back performance runs with similar times and traps with the CM30 is pure ignorance (no offense).
BTW, when I ran that 11.60, it was my fastest EVER run at the time. It was also potentially my hottest. Then again, I remember running higginsbeach at NED in May, back to back to back to back. And, yes the car ran 11.7X EVERY TIME. He is one of the later runs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sh3Sluj_ko Notice how the commentator says, "he's doing better and better each time...". Keep in mind that was a stranger.
On that run (which I think was my 3rd or 4th in a period of about 10 minutes), my car ran an 11.75 at 117 and could not have been much hotter FWIW.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Yes, did the heat rob me of some trap speed. Of course. Find me a car where that doesn't happen. But, to say you CANNOT run back to back performance runs with similar times and traps with the CM30 is pure ignorance (no offense).
Huh? Who said that? I ran almost 50 runs in 100 degree weather with consistent drop off. So what? My last runs were my fastest, too. So what?
my car ran an 11.75 at 117 and could not have been much hotter FWIW.
Huh? Who said that? I ran almost 50 runs in 100 degree weather with consistent drop off. So what? My last runs were my fastest, too. So what?
my car ran an 11.75 at 117 and could not have been much hotter FWIW.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 171
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From: Upstate NY
W211 E55
You lost me....I thought that was the point of the last few posts (see your and haha's quotes in my last post above). Point is simple. CM30 pump is THE perfect alternative for these cars - RIGHT NOW. It is tried and tested. It is affordable. It flows MORE than enough, and in combination with a good HE, you can drive this car hard / drag race it through the desert (exaggeration) without any problems. Might there be another alternative. Sure. Might there be a better alternative in the future. You bet. But for now, I think the Johnson pump wins hands down. If I am not mistaken, it was you who took the bold position NOT to buy a "marine" pump for these cars, and that is just NOT good advice. Nor are your statements accurate for the vast majority of E55 users, IMO. Appreciate the banter and brainstorming though.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: Upstate NY
W211 E55
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: Upstate NY
W211 E55
Many "hardcore" owners of the 55k are using the Johnson 30 series with fairly heavy handed applications on their cars....with no issues. In fact, I can think of a few who are chasing the "all motor" 55k record with that pump and are doing just fine.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: Lower NY Area
2003 E55 Blk/Blk
I never said that the CM30 was not efficient but over time and a few runs the cm90 will out perform it. But only if the heat exchanger is capable too... lol Im not attacking the CM30 but Im one to go with new products that are meant to out perform the old ones with new innovation...Also the Cm30 isnt much cheaper than the davies $200 pump what like $25 cheaper?
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
I never said that the CM30 was not efficient but over time and a few runs the cm90 will out perform it. But only if the heat exchanger is capable too... lol Im not attacking the CM30 but Im one to go with new products that are meant to out perform the old ones with new innovation...Also the Cm30 isnt much cheaper than the davies $200 pump what like $25 cheaper?
