jtc55

well, can't wait for a couple years from now because it seems both european powerhouses will be turbocharging their cars.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=236226

i will definately take a hard look into the M series when they come out b/c i'm looking for a change when i unload my E63. i love the handling of the M cars but can't get past the low torque.

with the new M cars having over 500 lb/ft w/ the new turbocharged engines and great handling, would any of u guys consider going to the "other" side?

jcroproductions

Well I always loved the high revving aspect of the M series cars. But the added torque might just bring some of us over to our local BMW dealer...

Fantasm

its possible. for me it'll depend on which one looks better and has the most techy goodies

chiromikey

if they can get rid of the transmission that likes to poop all over the floor, i'd easily consider an m car with more tq!

MHP

Agreed. One of the major factors (aside from an emissions standpoint since it's harder to make "acceptable" N/A power these days) in going to a lower revving turbo motor was the current E60 SMGs inability to reliably hold 8100rpm. The motors will easily take 8400-8600rpm but the trannys really don't like to be pushed beyond 8400.

MHP

After reading through the article I must say that if AMG combines DI with a turbo/TT 6.2 there will be no more potent engine available for us to tinker with. Literally with just a tune you'll be able to put out more power than you could ever use.
Lately I've been hearing that MB was going to TT/DI the current 5.4/5.5L 4v V8 which would make more sense from an emissions standpoint. Even if that's the case you won't find tires that can hold the power once tuned.

c32used

If I chose now AMG hands down but who knows what they are like when they appear....either route would be better then current right?

TopGun32

both types of engines will be able to run extreme amounts of HP.

but it will come down to the transmission..

M having the advantage since they had tested SMG and Dual Clutch technology on production cars..

AMG is a bit late to the party...

MHP

Keep in mind that the E60 SMGs tend to fail, a lot. Granted there are far fewer AMG MCTs on the road in SL63s but I haven't heard any horror stories yet--even with a far torquier motor (6.2/4v v 5.0L/4v).

Ol'School

even though my whole life I've been a loyal AMG fan, and a major BMW hater, I gotta admit the new M3 kind of softened the grounds between me and BMW ... if it wasn't for the transmission issue and the lack of power that is ... so if those two issues get addressed... yea, maybe me and BMW can finally make a treaty

Murtaza

Inability to reliably hold 8100rpm??? I've never heard of that.

The problems plagued the 06's (first year), I've never heard of the red cog of death on 07's and 08's.

Zod

but my friend they were all singing that tune aound 2005 that it was a n issue only early production models got. Then they said 06 was fine and the best. But they got hit with cars blowing smg tranies at 2k klm or 3k miles in a new car!

but so far the latter models seem to be doing better, but i have not been follwoing the stories so not sure. Al i know is that there was a recall and i think that sorted most of their issues

Murtaza

There are no MY 05 M5's, 06's were the first year and they did have a lot of SMG related problems.

Zod

I just recall reading that people were saying the 06 would nto have any problems in arguments on m5board...maybe some of them considered late 05 production as 06.

Any way is the mater resovled, or are people sill getting cog of death?

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I'm over the 65,000 mile mark on my '06 M5 that I daily drive 100 miles round trip. I've NEVER had a problem with the car, EVER. Yes I've heard the horror stories, and definitely consider myself lucky, but I'll be first in line for a turbo M-Car after the reliability and quality of service I've gotten with this car. Absolutely top notch across the board.

MHP

You'll notice that any revision including and over #25 flashes the TCU of the SMG to increase torque management (pulling timing) at or near shift points which has shown dyno losses of 15-20rw. This flash was implemented to ensure lower trans related warranty claims.
We're currently testing both an older and newer software TCU in the same car to discern the exact differences post ECU/TCU tuning.

Thanks

The Law

I had two Bimmers before my E55 and I would be in an M5 right now if it weren't for the styling. I think the E is a much better looking car. Now, I am thrilled I made the switch because my BEAST is now my favorite car that I've owned thus far and I've owned many a car already. That being said, if the styling improves I would be willing to switch back and get an M5 just for fun. I don't hold cars very long anyway.

Murtaza

I have heard of that, version 27 software or something? I picked mine up a month ago so shouldn't I have that neutered software? I've raced several AMG with no bogging near red line, hopefully they canceled this software revision

MHP

Honestly if you never had the previous/older and more potent version you probably wouldn't know the difference. We'll get some objective track/dyno results for the sake of comparison this week.

Thanks

Murtaza

I don't think I'd keep up with a stage 5 E55 with -20hp @ redline Car runs strong.

Zod

I would be interested in seeing this data, good luck on the research

cls55

murtaza,early 05 is when m5 came out in europe just like cls55,06 in us.zod was talking about 05 european version.its a great car nontheless.

MHP

You won't have to wait long. The older software version should also incorporate Euro launch control and we eliminate the initial 1200 mile (break-in) period where you can't switch out of the softest shifting mode as well.

Mario should have the upgraded/older TCU by weeks end.

Thanks
Andy

MHP

Not to take anything away from your car, I'm sure it's a beast but I ran with a Stage 4 E55 with just v1 ECU/TCU tuning/filters from a 70-140+ roll several times. Then again maybe you got lucky.

Murtaza

I did 4 runs with my friend and what I said was the result we ended up with, not a single lucky run.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...odded-e55.html


Just a few months ago I chose an SL55 over the M6...then a few months later I had the opportunity to get an M6. I loved my SL but the M6 is much much more of a drivers car. Don't get me wrong, I miss my SL's interior and torque but the funny thing is, with all the torque I don't lose any footing off the line against an SL55 and then start to pull when in 2nd gear.

All that said I think AMG is turning things around with the SL63, I've heard it handles much more like a BMW and the tranny is sick so I might be back to AMG in a couple years with the SL R231 or whatever