E55 and E63 long tube headers
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
E55 and E63 long tube headers
What vendors offer long tube headers for our cars? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the various styles, including pricing?
We are having some custom setups made in Vista and I want something to compare it to. I also want to make sure we get it right since i wil be paying for labor.
We are having some custom setups made in Vista and I want something to compare it to. I also want to make sure we get it right since i wil be paying for labor.
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 216
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From: OC
E55
Very nice Jangy
I was talking to serge 2 days about this and he said that the only REAL disadvantage was the fact that longtubes eliminate the front cats. But trust me, its definitely worth the muscle car growl that only longtubes give you
I was talking to serge 2 days about this and he said that the only REAL disadvantage was the fact that longtubes eliminate the front cats. But trust me, its definitely worth the muscle car growl that only longtubes give you
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I was going to cut the primaries anyways, so why not go long? Then a buddy here in Vista told me about a shop that can hand make shorties and longys so i thought why not? The only ones I have ever seen are the Super Sprint ones and I don't intend to pay anything over $2k.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Stage 5 means long tubes? So, you are telling me that there are only a few stage 5 E55s? I only know of 2 E55s that have long tubes and neither was VRP. I do not have the VRP long tubes nor do i even know of them, sorry. I do have the VRP shorties (HEMs), but want to open it up even more.
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Mercedes
Stage 5 means long tubes? So, you are telling me that there are only a few stage 5 E55s? I only know of 2 E55s that have long tubes and neither was VRP. I do not have the VRP long tubes nor do i even know of them, sorry. I do have the VRP shorties (HEMs), but want to open it up even more.
I have been looking into long tubes for a while now, and I deiced to go with a custom set up that will bolt up straight to the resonator with no welding required.
btw, I think that jakpro and amgfan have VRP long tubes...
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Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
Sorry I must have been misinformed then!
I have been looking into long tubes for a while now, and I deiced to go with a custom set up that will bolt up straight to the resonator with no welding required.
That is exactly what we want. How did it go? Smooth as promised? The guy comes highly recommended and does it right on the car, so I hope it will be solid.
btw, I think that jakpro and amgfan have VRP long tubes...
I have been looking into long tubes for a while now, and I deiced to go with a custom set up that will bolt up straight to the resonator with no welding required.
That is exactly what we want. How did it go? Smooth as promised? The guy comes highly recommended and does it right on the car, so I hope it will be solid.
btw, I think that jakpro and amgfan have VRP long tubes...
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Mercedes
What mods do you have on your car now...
I am in the process of getting a set on long tubes made up, I will post up when they are ready...
Member
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: SF Bay Area
2006 E55
Jangy to truely design the ideal header you do race math calculating ideal length of the primary tubes. The formula has to do with cam specs. Can't recall exactly the forumla but I can look it up if you really want to know. This ideal header design will pull the intake charge in during cam overlap and create a higher veloicty of the intake charge than would be available without the ideal headers. Cylinder fill go up and with it power. Most NA motors achive 70%-80% fill. In race applications where you can design ideal exhaust etc. fill can be as high as 130%.
What does all the above babble mean? First off the above really affects NA motors much much more than forced induction. In the case of the E55 I would concentrate on a header design that does not change directions rapidly and is a true header not log style. Equal length is ideal yet not worth the extra effort in the case of the E55.
I respect your passion. From where I sit the Kleeman header offers enough of the desired features that I won't bother to fab my own. If the pre-cat issue has stopped you from making that choice I suggest you look closer and see what can be done for installing a pre cat.
Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.
What does all the above babble mean? First off the above really affects NA motors much much more than forced induction. In the case of the E55 I would concentrate on a header design that does not change directions rapidly and is a true header not log style. Equal length is ideal yet not worth the extra effort in the case of the E55.
I respect your passion. From where I sit the Kleeman header offers enough of the desired features that I won't bother to fab my own. If the pre-cat issue has stopped you from making that choice I suggest you look closer and see what can be done for installing a pre cat.
Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.
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From: Chicago, IL
Real Cars
Jangy,
I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:
1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes
After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.
-m
I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:
1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes
After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.
-m
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,649
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Jangy,
I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:
1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes
After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.
-m
I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:
1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes
After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.
-m
1. i also have my resonator removed and i have ZERO exhaust drone. drone is a byproduct of muffler design rather than headers.
2. supercharger engagement is no different than any other car. harsh engagement is a byproduct of a larger crank pulley and/or s/c clutch. since i had my s/c clutch replaced with the improved version, engagement is dramatically improved.
3. ZERO gas fumes unless i'm standing right behind the tailpipe.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
I have VRP Pulley, Powerchip Tune, VRP TB, VRP HEM logs, no airbox, and some slight exhaust work (no 2nd cats and an x pipe for resonators). I hope to increase TB capacity next to get more air through.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
Jangy,
I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:
1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
Mine is pretty quiet right now and I have the secondary cats cut. Will cutting the primaries make that huge of a sound difference? I want stealth and do not want growl.
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
Tell me why? Mine is already HORRIBLE enough that i am taking it back in and asking for another clutchpack. Tell me about this SC engagement, because we have to able to bypass some of these issues rather than choosing to stop pushing these cars.
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes
Hold your horses. So, having no cats will make the car smell? Is this a for sure or only under certain conditions? I want to retain the MB feel so let me know.
After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.
-m
I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:
1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
Mine is pretty quiet right now and I have the secondary cats cut. Will cutting the primaries make that huge of a sound difference? I want stealth and do not want growl.
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
Tell me why? Mine is already HORRIBLE enough that i am taking it back in and asking for another clutchpack. Tell me about this SC engagement, because we have to able to bypass some of these issues rather than choosing to stop pushing these cars.
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes
Hold your horses. So, having no cats will make the car smell? Is this a for sure or only under certain conditions? I want to retain the MB feel so let me know.
After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.
-m
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
...but I can look it up if you really want to know....
of course I do. I am not designing the headers, the guy at the shop is and I am relying on his experience. Also, we aren't exactly trying to tune it. i am really wanting to push it for top end even if I lose some low end.
I respect your passion. From where I sit the Kleeman header offers enough of the desired features that I won't bother to fab my own. If the pre-cat issue has stopped you from making that choice I suggest you look closer and see what can be done for installing a pre cat.
Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.
of course I do. I am not designing the headers, the guy at the shop is and I am relying on his experience. Also, we aren't exactly trying to tune it. i am really wanting to push it for top end even if I lose some low end.
I respect your passion. From where I sit the Kleeman header offers enough of the desired features that I won't bother to fab my own. If the pre-cat issue has stopped you from making that choice I suggest you look closer and see what can be done for installing a pre cat.
Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
i have long tubes and have had them for quite a while...
1. i also have my resonator removed and i have ZERO exhaust drone. drone is a byproduct of muffler design rather than headers.
SWEET!! I have left my mufflers alone!
2. supercharger engagement is no different than any other car. harsh engagement is a byproduct of a larger crank pulley and/or s/c clutch. since i had my s/c clutch replaced with the improved version, engagement is dramatically improved.
Either way, i have the new clutch and the larger pulley. I have no intentions of going back now. if the headers don't make a difference, then better..
3. ZERO gas fumes unless i'm standing right behind the tailpipe.
1. i also have my resonator removed and i have ZERO exhaust drone. drone is a byproduct of muffler design rather than headers.
SWEET!! I have left my mufflers alone!
2. supercharger engagement is no different than any other car. harsh engagement is a byproduct of a larger crank pulley and/or s/c clutch. since i had my s/c clutch replaced with the improved version, engagement is dramatically improved.
Either way, i have the new clutch and the larger pulley. I have no intentions of going back now. if the headers don't make a difference, then better..
3. ZERO gas fumes unless i'm standing right behind the tailpipe.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
i have full long tubes, 1 set of 200ct race cats in the secondary location and no resonator and it's almost as quiet as stock with zero drone whatsoever during normal driving and only minimally louder at wot. it's absolutely perfect!!!
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
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From: San Diego
2015 S212
What do you think about no cats at all? Should I throw in some? Also, what did you do about tune? Do you feel you got the most out of them?
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
you're in ca so i'd think you have to have cats somewhere. if you lived somewhere that didn't require a visual inspection i'd say get rid of them if you're looking for all out performance. i have a kleemann tune that seems to be working well. i'd put the gains i got with my header/exhaust system up against any other system out there.
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
you're in ca so i'd think you have to have cats somewhere. if you lived somewhere that didn't require a visual inspection i'd say get rid of them if you're looking for all out performance. i have a kleemann tune that seems to be working well. i'd put the gains i got with my header/exhaust system up against any other system out there.
Is your Kleeman tune new? If not, I assume you have stayed away from any dealer flashes?
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'03 E55, Range Rover Sport Supercharged, Ducati 748R
Nah California is all or none. they don't look for cats, they look for all the OEM parts and want them in the exact same location as well. That is why I am getting the bolt on setup so I can swap, retune, and get smogged. we aren't allowed to use race cats and it is way easier to just get it smogged than deal with trying to find a way around the rules. Heck, many stations i know don't do the visual.
Is your Kleeman tune new? If not, I assume you have stayed away from any dealer flashes?
Is your Kleeman tune new? If not, I assume you have stayed away from any dealer flashes?
Thread Starter
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 13,394
Likes: 6
From: San Diego
2015 S212
You may want to contact kleeman, if you don't already have a relationship. I've heard real good things from their recent tunes. You never know when even you can get more out of that thing....
Thanks for the advice.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,793
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From: San Diego
2004 E55
The car goes in Monday morning, if you're up for it you can meet me there at 8am just to get a feel for the shop and the owner.
I am going to get as full of a header as possible while retaining the stock location of the cats; I will likely however, replace them with higher flowing cats. When I talked to Rich a week and a half ago, he said he can build the headers so they will meet up with the cats at a flange and cut and reweld the cat with a flange on the other end so they can be bolted/unbolted and swapped with an off-road pipe for more performance/sound/personal preference.
I'm excited lol.
I am going to get as full of a header as possible while retaining the stock location of the cats; I will likely however, replace them with higher flowing cats. When I talked to Rich a week and a half ago, he said he can build the headers so they will meet up with the cats at a flange and cut and reweld the cat with a flange on the other end so they can be bolted/unbolted and swapped with an off-road pipe for more performance/sound/personal preference.
I'm excited lol.
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Mercedes
