jangy

What vendors offer long tube headers for our cars? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the various styles, including pricing?

We are having some custom setups made in Vista and I want something to compare it to. I also want to make sure we get it right since i wil be paying for labor.

Brabus E55

Very nice Jangy

I was talking to serge 2 days about this and he said that the only REAL disadvantage was the fact that longtubes eliminate the front cats. But trust me, its definitely worth the muscle car growl that only longtubes give you

jangy

I was going to cut the primaries anyways, so why not go long? Then a buddy here in Vista told me about a shop that can hand make shorties and longys so i thought why not? The only ones I have ever seen are the Super Sprint ones and I don't intend to pay anything over $2k.

aleksandar1099

VRP makes long tubes....
I thought you had them on your car....
You said you had a full stage 5 car, I thought that included long tubes...

jangy

Stage 5 means long tubes? So, you are telling me that there are only a few stage 5 E55s? I only know of 2 E55s that have long tubes and neither was VRP. I do not have the VRP long tubes nor do i even know of them, sorry. I do have the VRP shorties (HEMs), but want to open it up even more.

BenzoBoi

As far as I know, Supersprint and VRP are the only 2 that make long tubes...

aleksandar1099

Sorry I must have been misinformed then!

I have been looking into long tubes for a while now, and I deiced to go with a custom set up that will bolt up straight to the resonator with no welding required.

btw, I think that jakpro and amgfan have VRP long tubes...

jangy

LOL!! Of all the times I was up at VRP, I never saw long tubes. I have only recently gotten the itch to cut the primary cats, so maybe that is why? I'll do a search and see if there were any gains.

aleksandar1099

I think they were showing gains of up to 40rwhp on a vr700 car...

What mods do you have on your car now...

I am in the process of getting a set on long tubes made up, I will post up when they are ready...

C32madness

Jangy to truely design the ideal header you do race math calculating ideal length of the primary tubes. The formula has to do with cam specs. Can't recall exactly the forumla but I can look it up if you really want to know. This ideal header design will pull the intake charge in during cam overlap and create a higher veloicty of the intake charge than would be available without the ideal headers. Cylinder fill go up and with it power. Most NA motors achive 70%-80% fill. In race applications where you can design ideal exhaust etc. fill can be as high as 130%.

What does all the above babble mean? First off the above really affects NA motors much much more than forced induction. In the case of the E55 I would concentrate on a header design that does not change directions rapidly and is a true header not log style. Equal length is ideal yet not worth the extra effort in the case of the E55.

I respect your passion. From where I sit the Kleeman header offers enough of the desired features that I won't bother to fab my own. If the pre-cat issue has stopped you from making that choice I suggest you look closer and see what can be done for installing a pre cat.

Look forward to seeing whatever you end up doing.

Marcus Frost

Jangy,

I debated this as well, and I won't be going with long tubes for a few reasons:

1.) You will likely get horrid interior exhaust drone
2.) Supercharger engagement will become much more harsh
3.) You will not really have room for efficient catalytic converters and therefore your car will reek like gasoline fumes

After an exhaustive debate I've just come to the conclusion the E55 is not a car you run long tubes on.

-m

chiromikey

i have long tubes and have had them for quite a while...

1. i also have my resonator removed and i have ZERO exhaust drone. drone is a byproduct of muffler design rather than headers.

2. supercharger engagement is no different than any other car. harsh engagement is a byproduct of a larger crank pulley and/or s/c clutch. since i had my s/c clutch replaced with the improved version, engagement is dramatically improved.

3. ZERO gas fumes unless i'm standing right behind the tailpipe.

jangy

I have VRP Pulley, Powerchip Tune, VRP TB, VRP HEM logs, no airbox, and some slight exhaust work (no 2nd cats and an x pipe for resonators). I hope to increase TB capacity next to get more air through.

jangy

Now you have me thinking. I wanted that extra 20hp or so, though....

jangy

I agree that the Kleemans are very similar. Actually, I never knew how easy it was to have a set fabbed and how many people in San Diego that have spent many years on race exhausts. I was initially very against cutting the primary cats but have now relented. i just don't see the Kleeman setup as a very good compromise for two reasons. First, and foremost, i really don't know that you can get that extra 20 or so HP going from shorties to the Kleeman mid sized and you still have to cut and weld. Second, why pay the price when i can have a custom set made local for less?

jangy

Behind as in being in the car behind, or literally standing at your pipe?

chiromikey

zero smell in the car, only when you're standing next to the tail pipe can you smell anything.

i have full long tubes, 1 set of 200ct race cats in the secondary location and no resonator and it's almost as quiet as stock with zero drone whatsoever during normal driving and only minimally louder at wot. it's absolutely perfect!!!

jangy

What do you think about no cats at all? Should I throw in some? Also, what did you do about tune? Do you feel you got the most out of them?

chiromikey

you're in ca so i'd think you have to have cats somewhere. if you lived somewhere that didn't require a visual inspection i'd say get rid of them if you're looking for all out performance. i have a kleemann tune that seems to be working well. i'd put the gains i got with my header/exhaust system up against any other system out there.

jangy

Nah California is all or none. they don't look for cats, they look for all the OEM parts and want them in the exact same location as well. That is why I am getting the bolt on setup so I can swap, retune, and get smogged. we aren't allowed to use race cats and it is way easier to just get it smogged than deal with trying to find a way around the rules. Heck, many stations i know don't do the visual.

Is your Kleeman tune new? If not, I assume you have stayed away from any dealer flashes?

chiromikey

nope same tune i've always had. yeah, the dealer knows better than to mess with my ecu after the recall/reflash!!!

jangy

Well, I am going to try it. worst case, i hate it and need to go back to stock.
You may want to contact kleeman, if you don't already have a relationship. I've heard real good things from their recent tunes. You never know when even you can get more out of that thing....
Thanks for the advice.

bobgodd

The car goes in Monday morning, if you're up for it you can meet me there at 8am just to get a feel for the shop and the owner.

I am going to get as full of a header as possible while retaining the stock location of the cats; I will likely however, replace them with higher flowing cats. When I talked to Rich a week and a half ago, he said he can build the headers so they will meet up with the cats at a flange and cut and reweld the cat with a flange on the other end so they can be bolted/unbolted and swapped with an off-road pipe for more performance/sound/personal preference.

I'm excited lol.

jangy

Hey bro. Yeah Monday sounds good. I definitely want to meet him and see what he does on your ride. Woohoo VISTA on monday!! I'll bring the DVD.

aleksandar1099

I ran for a while with an exhaust with no cats and the smell is not that bad at all. There was no smell inside at all!