E90 M3 already blown...
#28
Hmm, something smells....typically you'll pick up about 10 hp per psi. This is 8 psi, which I would expect would give it around 80 more hp for a total of 433 rwhp or so, certainly not 250 more hp....or is there a lot more to this tune than this, like heads, cams, etc.?
Trap speed will tell the tale. If it is truly putting out 602 rwhp, it'll trap in the 130's easy (edit: make that 129+). Which, I predict, it won't.
Trap speed will tell the tale. If it is truly putting out 602 rwhp, it'll trap in the 130's easy (edit: make that 129+). Which, I predict, it won't.
Last edited by Improviz; 12-24-2008 at 01:13 AM.
#29
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997TT, R8 V10+, G550, Plaid S
Hmm, something smells....typically you'll pick up about 10 hp per psi. This is 8 psi, which I would expect would give it around 80 more hp for a total of 433 rwhp or so, certainly not 150 more hp....or is there a lot more to this tune than this, like heads, cams, etc.?
Trap speed will tell the tale. If it is truly putting out 602 rwhp, it'll trap in the 130's easy. Which, I predict, it won't.
Trap speed will tell the tale. If it is truly putting out 602 rwhp, it'll trap in the 130's easy. Which, I predict, it won't.
#30
going by power delivery and curvatures it does appear to be the same car. but i agree that 600whp is a lot. not sure how you came up with 150hp gain.....from that dyno it looks like the peak gain was ~240whp. which is crazy, but keep in mind the 12:1 compression, individual throttle bodys, lightweight engine components, equal flow headers (stock). i am curious now
We'll see, but I don't think we'll be seeing it hit what those numbers would indicate...with 605 hp and a 15% driveline loss, it'd be at about 711 crank, which would give it a projected ET and trap of about 11.2 @ 129.
#31
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Might be 9 psi,it was posted on another forum.I will look for the thread.Some said 8 and some people said 9 psi.
this engine makes alot of power/l and flows really well up top.That dyno is a stock m3 with just a kit installed.remember that bmw left room in there for the csl and people are getting 30whp gains from just tuning alone. shows how well this engine breaths up top.
people are getting close to 370whp with bolt ons.Sticky from m3forums ran a 12.10@115 with just bolt ons on his m3
edit it was 8psi.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=632455
this engine makes alot of power/l and flows really well up top.That dyno is a stock m3 with just a kit installed.remember that bmw left room in there for the csl and people are getting 30whp gains from just tuning alone. shows how well this engine breaths up top.
people are getting close to 370whp with bolt ons.Sticky from m3forums ran a 12.10@115 with just bolt ons on his m3
edit it was 8psi.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=632455
Last edited by skratch77; 12-24-2008 at 01:47 AM.
#32
Might be 9 psi,it was posted on another forum.I will look for the thread.Some said 8 and some people said 9 psi.
this engine makes alot of power/l and flows really well up top.That dyno is a stock m3 with just a kit installed.remember that bmw left room in there for the csl and people are getting 30whp gains from just tuning alone. shows how well this engine breaths up top.
people are getting close to 370whp with bolt ons.Sticky from m3forums ran a 12.10@115 with just bolt ons on his m3
edit it was 8psi.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=632455
this engine makes alot of power/l and flows really well up top.That dyno is a stock m3 with just a kit installed.remember that bmw left room in there for the csl and people are getting 30whp gains from just tuning alone. shows how well this engine breaths up top.
people are getting close to 370whp with bolt ons.Sticky from m3forums ran a 12.10@115 with just bolt ons on his m3
edit it was 8psi.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=632455
As I said: the traps will tell the tale. If I see a 129+ trap out of one of those things, I'll convert, but for now you can place me firmly in the unbeliever camp.
#33
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C63, Grigio Medio E46 M3
The dyno graph is of the upcoming ESS kit, my original post is the Active Autowerks kit. they have yet to reveal dyno numbers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knzC-...layer_embedded
dyno vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knzC-...layer_embedded
dyno vid
#34
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
Boost is a measure of the air in an intake tract that the engine can't flow on its own. Think of backpressure in the intake. An engine that flows air extremely well will not have as much boost as one that does not flow well with all other things being equal.
Take the AMG 55 engine. If you do headwork, cams, and headers, your car will make less boost but will make more power with less boost. You really need to look at how the heads flow and the displacement of the engine to determine what boost will do for your engine.
This is a good calculator for power in a supercharged engine. This is not the end all be all but it is a good tool.
If you enter 370 RWHP, 9 PSI, 3 core intercooler, and 92 octane, it calculates the power at around 600 RWHP.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/h...r.asp?submit=1
Take the AMG 55 engine. If you do headwork, cams, and headers, your car will make less boost but will make more power with less boost. You really need to look at how the heads flow and the displacement of the engine to determine what boost will do for your engine.
This is a good calculator for power in a supercharged engine. This is not the end all be all but it is a good tool.
If you enter 370 RWHP, 9 PSI, 3 core intercooler, and 92 octane, it calculates the power at around 600 RWHP.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/h...r.asp?submit=1
#35
Boost is a measure of the air in an intake tract that the engine can't flow on its own. Think of backpressure in the intake. An engine that flows air extremely well will not have as much boost as one that does not flow well with all other things being equal.
Take the AMG 55 engine. If you do headwork, cams, and headers, your car will make less boost but will make more power with less boost. You really need to look at how the heads flow and the displacement of the engine to determine what boost will do for your engine.
This is a good calculator for power in a supercharged engine. This is not the end all be all but it is a good tool.
If you enter 370 RWHP, 9 PSI, 3 core intercooler, and 92 octane, it calculates the power at around 600 RWHP.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/h...r.asp?submit=1
Take the AMG 55 engine. If you do headwork, cams, and headers, your car will make less boost but will make more power with less boost. You really need to look at how the heads flow and the displacement of the engine to determine what boost will do for your engine.
This is a good calculator for power in a supercharged engine. This is not the end all be all but it is a good tool.
If you enter 370 RWHP, 9 PSI, 3 core intercooler, and 92 octane, it calculates the power at around 600 RWHP.
http://www.superchargersonline.com/h...r.asp?submit=1
Even using 350 hp, the 210's stock hp rating, it comes up with 660 crank/528 wheel, about 100 more than stock 211's make.
#37
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guys we have no idea what flow rates the ess chargers are using,At 9 psi could be the same as another charger at 4psi,we dont know the compressor size and spec ect.
same reason why a gt30r turbo makes 500whp @ say 20 psi(just throwing numbers out there)and a gt45r will make the same power with 15psi.
you cant compare a m3 engine to an amg.the m engine will make more power/psi period,it flows 10x better.The head,cams and headers on the new m3 are nasty and we dont know how much room bmw left up top end with vanos advance on this engine.
maybe its not 9psi but that dyno is making 100whp/1k north of 5k,it really shows how well the top end breaths on this engine.
Using that calculator it seems possible,I did it with 365whp 9 psi and it came out to like 595 and dont forget were talkinf 12:1 compression here,that alone will add some extra ponies.I dont know what the e55 has for stock compression,but it will have a big affect on power if you can get it not to blow up.
same reason why a gt30r turbo makes 500whp @ say 20 psi(just throwing numbers out there)and a gt45r will make the same power with 15psi.
you cant compare a m3 engine to an amg.the m engine will make more power/psi period,it flows 10x better.The head,cams and headers on the new m3 are nasty and we dont know how much room bmw left up top end with vanos advance on this engine.
maybe its not 9psi but that dyno is making 100whp/1k north of 5k,it really shows how well the top end breaths on this engine.
Using that calculator it seems possible,I did it with 365whp 9 psi and it came out to like 595 and dont forget were talkinf 12:1 compression here,that alone will add some extra ponies.I dont know what the e55 has for stock compression,but it will have a big affect on power if you can get it not to blow up.
Last edited by skratch77; 12-24-2008 at 05:38 PM.
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'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
nice
I wouldn't be surprised ... I"m running around 7psi and it was more than 110rwhp increase.
Btw I'm glad I was corrected that its a supercharger not Turbo system. I was just surprised since I have never heard a supercharged system with a blowoff valve.
Btw I'm glad I was corrected that its a supercharger not Turbo system. I was just surprised since I have never heard a supercharged system with a blowoff valve.
#39
Just a technicality but a turbo is also a supercharger.
#40
I double checked, and it is, I believe, 0.8 bar, or 11.6 psi.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/2030207....but-in-chicago
Car & Driver also had it at 11.6 psi in this article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...nt+page-2.html
http://www.worldcarfans.com/2030207....but-in-chicago
V8 Kompressor - The Dual-Personality Powerhouse The 5.5-liter supercharged V8 engine with a sport exhaust coupled with the Formula One style steering-wheel-mounted gearshift buttons, AMG-developed four-stage Airmatic air suspension and AMG 18-inch twin-spoke polished alloy wheels assure an unforgettable driving experience. Each E55 AMG engine makes a towering 469 hp and a massive 516 lbs.-ft. of torque, making easy work of the 0-60 mph sprint in just 4.5 seconds. Its 5.5-liter, supercharged and intercooled V8 engine is hand-assembled one at a time by expert technicians at Mercedes-AMG in Affalterbach, Germany and is bench-tested to ensure top performance. The sturdy V8 engine uses a positive-displacement, Lysholm-type (or screw-type) belt-driven supercharger with scrolling aluminum rotors, providing usable boost virtually from idle speed, and generates a maximum of 11.6 psi (or 0.8 bar) of boost pressure.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...nt+page-2.html
But we were discussing the SL55's power and its increased mass, and in fact the two are directly related. There is, for example, the weight of the AMG car's supercharger and its air-to-water intercooler, the latter designed with its own separate supply of fluid. Made by IHI, the belt-driven supercharger is of the Lysholm type, with a Teflon-coated screw-style impeller delivering boost up to 11.6 psi. Quietly, too. No supercharger whine.
Last edited by Improviz; 12-24-2008 at 09:24 PM.
#41
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'10 Porsche Turbo PDK, 500e, GL450
#42
guys we have no idea what flow rates the ess chargers are using,At 9 psi could be the same as another charger at 4psi,we dont know the compressor size and spec ect.
same reason why a gt30r turbo makes 500whp @ say 20 psi(just throwing numbers out there)and a gt45r will make the same power with 15psi.
you cant compare a m3 engine to an amg.the m engine will make more power/psi period,it flows 10x better.
same reason why a gt30r turbo makes 500whp @ say 20 psi(just throwing numbers out there)and a gt45r will make the same power with 15psi.
you cant compare a m3 engine to an amg.the m engine will make more power/psi period,it flows 10x better.
Further, you cite that calculator as if it is the gospel....OK, fine: so again: my car's engine makes 350 horsepower crank naturally aspirated. It runs 11.6 PSI of boost. So using that calculator, my engine makes (interpolating between 11 psi (613 crank) and 12 psi (632 crank) 622 crank horsepower.
Not only that, but I beat Mike Tyson in the ring, ran a 3 minute mile, climbed Mt Everest, and pole vaulted 60 ft. today. Its numbers are simply not realistic.
As I said: when and if I see an M3 with that s/c on it trapping at 129, I'll believe it's putting out 600 rwhp. And fanboyish anecdotes aren't going to change many people's minds either.
Last edited by Improviz; 12-24-2008 at 09:34 PM.
#43
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question122.htm
What is the difference between a turbocharger and a supercharger on a cars engine?
The key difference between a turbocharger and a supercharger is its power supply. Something has to supply the power to run the air compressor. In a supercharger, there is a belt that connects directly to the engine. It gets its power the same way that the water pump or alternator does. A turbocharger, on the other hand, gets its power from the exhaust stream. The exhaust runs through a turbine, which in turn spins the compressor (see How Gas Turbine Engines Work for details).
The key difference between a turbocharger and a supercharger is its power supply. Something has to supply the power to run the air compressor. In a supercharger, there is a belt that connects directly to the engine. It gets its power the same way that the water pump or alternator does. A turbocharger, on the other hand, gets its power from the exhaust stream. The exhaust runs through a turbine, which in turn spins the compressor (see How Gas Turbine Engines Work for details).
Last edited by Improviz; 12-24-2008 at 09:35 PM.
#44
#45
Whatever, dude...you want to go back to WWII days for your verbage, that's fine, but in common usage today, the two are distinct and different terms, one referrring to a belt-driven device, the other referring to an exhaust driven device.
#46
"a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons".
A turbocharger is defined as:
"a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine".
Notice the verbiage. No need to go back to WWII
#48
According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, a supercharger is defined as:
"a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons".
A turbocharger is defined as:
"a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine".
Notice the verbiage. No need to go back to WWII
"a device (as a blower or compressor) for pressurizing the cabin of an airplane or for increasing the volume air charge of an internal combustion engine over that which would normally be drawn in through the pumping action of the pistons".
A turbocharger is defined as:
"a centrifugal blower driven by exhaust gas turbines and used to supercharge an engine".
Notice the verbiage. No need to go back to WWII
Here is another one for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superch..._turbocharging
Supercharging and turbocharging
The term supercharging technically refers to any pump that forces air into an engine—but in common usage, it refers to pumps that are driven directly by the engine as opposed to turbochargers that are driven by the pressure of the exhaust gases.
The term supercharging technically refers to any pump that forces air into an engine—but in common usage, it refers to pumps that are driven directly by the engine as opposed to turbochargers that are driven by the pressure of the exhaust gases.
Btw, speaking of fact checks: I note that you've yet to provide a reference to back up your claim that E55K motors are 8 psi, stock. I've provided two that list it as 0.8 bar/11.6 psi.
Do you have a reference to back up your 8 psi claim, or were you wrong?
Last edited by Improviz; 12-24-2008 at 10:22 PM.
#49
weirdest supercharger i ever heard. Sounds like a wastegate and BOV.
Supercharged!
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=634627
**Active Autowerke E9X M3 Supercharger Kit (Teaser) I **
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello again Board,
Here is some "teaser" media of our Supercharged E9X M3 we would like to share with you. Much more to come in the next couple of weeks. Happy Holidays to Everyone!!!!!
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=634627
**Active Autowerke E9X M3 Supercharger Kit (Teaser) I **
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello again Board,
Here is some "teaser" media of our Supercharged E9X M3 we would like to share with you. Much more to come in the next couple of weeks. Happy Holidays to Everyone!!!!!
#50
It is possible to make more than 10 hp/psi, I know 9FF is making a turbo kit for the CGT and they claim 912 crank hp, 308 hp gain, and I'm almost positive they aren't running more than 10 psi of boost, its all on stock internals. I would imagine the the S85 flows as well or better, it makes more hp/L, and has similar design characteristics. Those guys at AA don't miss a beat.