bassn_07

It's really funny because I'm the only one that get picks on and my dyno #'s are not that impressive when compared to other DD's, but yet trapped 130 mph . Thanks guys for taking the spot light off of my car and Marcus could now comment on yours instead of mine. From here on out you guys will have the highest DD in the country that he has ever seen....

Rick, I'm still waiting for you come up North and reclaim that AMG Flag..... It's not fair you keep on adding more and more things on...haha. I try my hardest to stop modding but you guys make it impossible. I have one last thing to do which should net some substantial gains...we'll see.. No BS on this one.

bassn_07

Exactly, why didn't you post this earlier in the thread...

blackbenzz

Because I was busy dynoing my car. It made a bajillion whp, so does that make me faster than everyone else? Oh yea, and it was on a DD. We had to strap it to a supra pointed in the opposite direction at WOT to keep the car from flying off the dyno. If you guys really want me to I can go to my friends shop, manipulate a few parameters, and make my car show 1000whp on the dyno and post it on here

hooleyboy

I'm running like 9spi at peak and 7 at readline if I recall. I have my reservations about meth setups. If you run out of meth you can kiss your motor goodbye. I'm sure you know that though. Maybe you cant add some more boost and then tune for some race fuel.

In all honestly We thought about running a 180mm pulley and using 109oct. We just think my cams are just blowing boost by, without taking advantage of more boost. Just about thinking we hit the limit on how much boost the C55 can use without a cam made for a supercharger.

Do you have the Kleemann cams? If you do it leads me to think your car takes advantage of the boost better than mine. Also I need a beefy transmission like you got.

blackbenzz

Thanks for the info buddy I plugged a boost gauge to my car for a few quick pulls and couldn't get it to go any higher than 7.5ish PSI. I think the exhaust and intake caused a decrease in boost. I know what you mean about meth, I share your same feelings but I want more power! lol I guess I will wait and see how much power it makes at this level after I get retuned (just put in a wideband the other day and found out I'm running EXTREMELY rich). Maybe throw a pulley on there and see what happens. If it detonates, just swap back, pretty simple.

Yea your stock cams have too much overlap. I have the PTE cams. I wish I installed a boost gauge to see before and after. The sound completely changed. Before the cams I could never hear the blower, now I definitely can. Car lopes alot more at idle but thats because I didn't raise the rpms at idle. I kinda like it, it's intimidating. But it can also get annoying lol

hooleyboy

I'd rather have to much fuel than not enough, Before you get your retune I would change those plugs. They are most likely taking a beating from running rich. In the mean time maybe twisting your MAF could hemp lean it out. If you want to open that can of worms.

I got a set of E55 cams, When my car gets out of the body shop I'm going to toss them in and see what happens. I got a few pulleys I can try out if boost gets to high.

bassn_07

Out of curiousity what's the best way to tell if your enginge is detonating? The only thing ever described to me is the knock or ping.

hooleyboy

The best way is to monitor it on the dyno, from the OBDII. If it was knocking you would hear it in most cases. The OBDII will pick up knock that you cant hear at high RPMs.

bassn_07

Do you need stat to help monitor this from the OB2?

Exotic-metal55

Adding extra knock sensors and a meter to monitor Knock, is he best way.. That ping, ping noise is much easier to hear on N/A motors.

Once you have forced induction and or Nitrous, the detonation is very hard to hear and most of the time to late.. With our motors, you almost can feel the detonation over hearing it. It will be more muffled and maybe even sound like a swoosh, fizzing type noise (Like alka seltzer) .

If a tuner has not recommended to you yet and at the HP levels you are making, I would really look into a detontation meter.

Stock pistons shatter (un-like forged) and they destroy everything, as seen from my motor pictures. The time and money you have into your car, and at this level of HP (I assume on stock fuel system, injectors) ) it is time to start investing in extra saftey.. It would also be worth doing some track / street runs and use a fuel pressure meter to make sure there is NO drop in pressure.. Just calculating injector flow, does not give the real time picture, when you press fuel limits.. One drop in pressure and 575 HP safe injectors, can only be 500 hp safe or less.


Here is an article that helps understand the importance. There is Dyno life and real world life. http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/07...tor/index.html

bassn_07

I totally agree with you in adding the extra protection to my car. I have a Innovative Motorsport wideband that will connect up to my dashdaq to measure AFR's on a full time basis if needed. I've also looked at Phorumual 1 knock sensors but I'm not quite sure how I would go about setting it up. As far as fuel goes do you have any recommendations on what to use to measure my pressure and what the numbers should be at?

BenzoBoi

That made my mornin. Thanks buddy!

Exotic-metal55

The Wideband monitor is great! Sounds like you are gathering the few basic saftey tools. Best place to monitor is PRE-cats. Phorumual knock sensors are also first rate.

Fuel question: We all read and hear what our pressure should be or what people state but at the end of the day,, what is it really on your car? You have to verfify this yourself, as you do not want to risk a 48K motor on verbal or written info..

You really do not need to monitor fuel pressure all the time but should verify the pressure under worst case load (street or strip). The goal is to make sure you do not have any pressure drop!! Then verfiy your pressure and use the calculation to double check duty cycles of injectors.

Here are some the challenges of fuel systems. Especially above 500hp, under boost and in ever changing conditions. It is easy to say, ok we have 80PSI of pressure and our injectors flow 420cc, so we are good to 575 HP or whatever . Once pushing near any limit, then this is what happens to our fuel system. The fuel lines may not be able to maintain the flow. People will say we have 3/8" lines and no problem but the MFG`s have all kinds of little things that can restrict percieved flow. Old fuel pump, dirty fuel filter, un-seen ball valves, line bends and other little filters and such. It can be a big challenge. Even the pump in the tank can have extra screens or ball valves that bring our potential flow down.

Just make sure YOUR pressure and injector flow match up to a safe duty cycle for you.. Forget the street talk and just VERIFY and do the math..

Fuel pressure gauges are pretty easy to tie into your fuel rail system under the hood. Then just find a way to locate gauge so you or a passenger can monitor pressure and drops.. Do this for a while, until you know you are safe. change that fuel filter, just to be on the safe side..

This may all be overkill but with 48K on the line , a few test and gauges are well worth it ..IMO.. Plus, you then have room to grow on. The mod addiction never stops. Ported heads and cams will come after the current mod high wears off and we need more power fixes or most of all ET fixes.. Those two mods alone could add another 70 RWHP and the need for more fuel..

Thericker

No sheet! great analogy, awesome mental picture "Oh yea, and it was on a DD. We had to strap it to a supra pointed in the opposite direction at WOT to keep the car from flying off the dyno"

But you realize? Marcus, wont believe this

bassn_07

You decide to chime in once the storm has calmed....sissy. haha, Just kidding Sean.

sneakyneon

EGT gague is the gold standard for spotting the limit of octane, Not all detonation is directly related to octane though, Increaced engine temps lowers the threshold for knock. Yes there are some fancy listing devies out there but egt has been used a long time with reliable results, Before there were widebands this was the number one tunning devise. A very involved discusstion could follow this....
I stongly recomend a zeitronix set up, It's reasonable priced and will do all you logging need(AFR,EGT,RPM,Boost,TPS%, warnning lights and triggers) I love mine.

bassn_07

How are you picking up EGT's? Is this done with a separate gauge or through the OBII port? Thanks for the post and coming from Diesel performance EGT gauges are a must. Is there a certain rule of thumb for the limits of EGT's on a FI motor or will each model and make have a different value?

Since I'm making a decent amount of power I'll put some effort into monitoring my engine from different aspects. I already have Dashdaq, Innovative Motorsport wideband, and soon to add a knock sensor or another recommended form of picking up detonation. Open to all opinions and recommendations.

sneakyneon

I'm sure this could happen but not likely,Most reputable water/meth injection company's strongly discourage using there systems to add this amount of fuel. Your car should not be that depedant on it to cause damage. If you tune for 12.5 to 13.00 with out it and 11.70 to12.00 with meth you leave yourself a good margin for a fail safe. I'll be building a budget set up for my car in the next few weeks and will let you know how its go's. If it performs like i hope this should be the end all be all solution to high IAT. I have seen HUGE gains in prior cars of mine in the past(25 hp in a 300 hp engine and a 3 mph in the 1/4), plus the technology just gets better and better. The newest pumps are 200 psi and 100% meth capaible.
What really blow me away is I have not seen anyone talking about an e85 setup. When this comes around to the e55(and it will) you will see new recorords set period.

sneakyneon

I'm using the zetronix that has a plug in for the egt probe. the probe go's into one of the tubes in the header, If you know wich cylinder is the leanest thats where you would but it as close to the head as you can fit. As far as ranges go, it is a bit subjective just as is AFR's but around 1600 to 1700 f.
I'll snap a few pix of my set up.

chiromikey

as far as meth injection goes around here, several have tried...none with any success. good luck and please post your results no matter the outcome.

sneakyneon

I've searched, and the most I found was people that had half installed or installed but not used it or tuned for it. If there is anyone that has installed on an E55 and has had it running please PM. love to hear some tips before I start.

sneakyneon

As promised!

bassn_07

Hey Sneakyneon, I've been doing a little research and it seems like Zeitronix-Dashdaq (my logger) has decided to make their part compatible with each other. It definitely seems more cost effective when compared to Dashdaq's partnership with Innovative motorsports. Maybe when you get a chance you could take a look at Zeitronix and give your opinion on the partnership between the two companies. I'm looking to run EGT and boost through my Dashdaq possibly using their hardware.

bassn_07

I have a quick question for the East coast boys in regards to DA. As discussed before earlier in this thread it was stated that running in negative DA will NOT be as beneficial as us West coast guys think. I promise I'm not trying to stir the pot but more so trying to understand if negative DA isn't that helpful why do the East coast guys always run in these conditions continuously breaking records? Please remember this isn't a attempt to argue with anyone regarding DA but more of an educational discussion. I also understand DA is what it is and it does not dictate on whether or not I run my car. I just want to have a better understanding because like mentioned earlier I would like to get into bracket racing....it seems like soooo much fun.

I really considered attending MIR this year in hopes of breaking some of my PB's but if negative DA isn't as beneficial as some say than what's the point.

c32AMG-DTM

I think you may be misunderstanding - no one said that negative DA wasn't/isn't beneficial. Not speaking for Marcus, but I read his comment to suggest that as DA drops, a vehicle's subsequent improvement in performance isn't necessarily a linear improvement. So, allegedly going from 3,000 to 2,000 in DA could result in a more meaningful improvement than going from +500 to -500 in DA for both dropping E/T and increasing trap speeds, even though both are an improvement of 1,000.

I cannot confirm or deny that observation myself - not enough runs, nor do I ever bother to A. check DA or B. correct said runs. Best of luck if you get into bracket racing, have heard from many that it's an fun and exciting test of drivers' wits and abilities. How consistent are your R/T's?