Vendors please explain inflated pricing
#1
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CLS55 AMG
Vendors please explain inflated pricing
Why are you charging this community inflated prices for virtually the same parts.
Heat exchanger
http://www.lightningforceperformance...roducts_id=319
Pulleys
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_140
Headers short and long
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_159
Throttle body
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_135
ECU tuning
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_136
catback exhaust
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_155
The craftsmanship is 10 times better than whats being offered in this community for a fraction of the cost.
It would almost make more sense to keep my car stock and just buy another Cobra.
Heat exchanger
http://www.lightningforceperformance...roducts_id=319
Pulleys
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_140
Headers short and long
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_159
Throttle body
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_135
ECU tuning
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_136
catback exhaust
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_155
The craftsmanship is 10 times better than whats being offered in this community for a fraction of the cost.
It would almost make more sense to keep my car stock and just buy another Cobra.
Last edited by Full Throttle; 09-02-2009 at 10:42 AM.
#3
I don't think most people will argue that much of current MB "tuner" pricing is still indefensible gouging based on the perceived demographics of MB AMG owners, but to compare Ford performance parts to comparable parts for supercharged MBs is probably an apples to oranges comparison based on production volumes of the vehicles and potential market for the parts.
Your former Cobra can be used as an example. According to the MuscularMustangs website, a total of 19,140 Cobras were produced for the 2003-4 models years. Compare that to the 10,702 E55s and CLS55s produced for the USA market for the 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 model years combined.
If I'm a tuner and have the opportunity to spread development and production costs over a potentially much higher number of units sold, then clearly costs (and corresponding selling prices) can be lower. Also factor in the difference in willingness to mod a $30K car versus an $80K car. Now that the 55s are passing on to second, third and even fourth owners, more will be modded, but that wasn't always the case.
Over the past couple of years, some members of this forum have helped owners immensely by either figuring out what factory parts certain tuners were using (and shamefully defacing the factory part numbers from) - 80mm TB is a good example Jangy or by bringing less costly solutions to market - heat exchangers being a good example. We've also seen the price of headers decline dramatically from just three years ago when there were only one set of long tubes (Supersprint) and a couple sets of shorties (Evosport and Renntech) and a mid-length (Kleemann) available at eye-watering prices. Now there are more choices available at better prices. I think the trend will continue . . .
Your former Cobra can be used as an example. According to the MuscularMustangs website, a total of 19,140 Cobras were produced for the 2003-4 models years. Compare that to the 10,702 E55s and CLS55s produced for the USA market for the 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 model years combined.
If I'm a tuner and have the opportunity to spread development and production costs over a potentially much higher number of units sold, then clearly costs (and corresponding selling prices) can be lower. Also factor in the difference in willingness to mod a $30K car versus an $80K car. Now that the 55s are passing on to second, third and even fourth owners, more will be modded, but that wasn't always the case.
Over the past couple of years, some members of this forum have helped owners immensely by either figuring out what factory parts certain tuners were using (and shamefully defacing the factory part numbers from) - 80mm TB is a good example Jangy or by bringing less costly solutions to market - heat exchangers being a good example. We've also seen the price of headers decline dramatically from just three years ago when there were only one set of long tubes (Supersprint) and a couple sets of shorties (Evosport and Renntech) and a mid-length (Kleemann) available at eye-watering prices. Now there are more choices available at better prices. I think the trend will continue . . .
Last edited by komp55; 09-02-2009 at 01:33 PM.
#4
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CLS55 AMG
Moding a k55 engine is not *completely* different than moding a 2003-2004 cobra engine. People are already using stock Cobra H/E on K55 cars now. Im speaking specifically about Cobras and K55 cars.
#5
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CLS55 AMG
I don't think most people will argue that much of current MB "tuner" pricing is still indefensible gouging based on the perceived demographics of MB AMG owners, but to compare Ford performance parts to comparable parts for supercharged MBs is probably an apples to oranges comparison based on production volumes of the vehicles and potential market for the parts.
Your former Cobra can be used as an example. According to the MuscularMustangs website, a total of 19,140 Cobras were produced for the 2003-4 models years. Compare that to the 10,702 E55s and CLS55s produced for the 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 model years combined.
If I'm a tuner and have the opportunity to spread development and production costs over a potentially much higher number of units sold, then clearly costs (and corresponding selling prices) can be lower. Also factor in the difference in willingness to mod a $30K car versus an $80K car. Now that the 55s are passing on to second, third and even fourth owners, more will be modded, but that wasn't always the case.
Over the past couple of years, some members of this forum have helped owners immensely by either figuring out what factory parts certain tuners were using (and shamefully defacing the factory part numbers from) - 80mm TB is a good example Jangy or by bringing less costly solutions to market - heat exchangers being a good example. We've also seen the price of headers decline dramatically from just three years ago when there were only one set of long tubes (Supersprint) and a couple sets of shorties (Evosport and Renntech) and a mid-length (Kleemann) available at eye-watering prices. Now there are more choices available at better prices. I think the trend will continue . . .
Your former Cobra can be used as an example. According to the MuscularMustangs website, a total of 19,140 Cobras were produced for the 2003-4 models years. Compare that to the 10,702 E55s and CLS55s produced for the 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 model years combined.
If I'm a tuner and have the opportunity to spread development and production costs over a potentially much higher number of units sold, then clearly costs (and corresponding selling prices) can be lower. Also factor in the difference in willingness to mod a $30K car versus an $80K car. Now that the 55s are passing on to second, third and even fourth owners, more will be modded, but that wasn't always the case.
Over the past couple of years, some members of this forum have helped owners immensely by either figuring out what factory parts certain tuners were using (and shamefully defacing the factory part numbers from) - 80mm TB is a good example Jangy or by bringing less costly solutions to market - heat exchangers being a good example. We've also seen the price of headers decline dramatically from just three years ago when there were only one set of long tubes (Supersprint) and a couple sets of shorties (Evosport and Renntech) and a mid-length (Kleemann) available at eye-watering prices. Now there are more choices available at better prices. I think the trend will continue . . .
BTW: your car is sick!!!!
Last edited by Full Throttle; 09-02-2009 at 11:41 AM.
#6
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Economies of scale basically ... and limited supply of vendors doing a good job.
Add to that a demographic of a buyer who all else being equal is not exactly struggling.
Add to that a demographic of a buyer who all else being equal is not exactly struggling.
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Thats actually pretty simple.
For headers, say you create headers on a limited run of 20 units. Tooling is expensive as well as materials. Now on a run of 2000 the prices on both decrease dramatically.
You simply can't compare 1 piece machined pulley to the aftermarket E/C pullies that are mechanically dampened. There is a lot more that goes into that, and then add in the limited run pricing as well.
The tuning side of thing shows that the cost associated with purchasing the software and hardware just to do the tuning is very high. Split that cost down by limited number to tunes and add in a small profit and you have to tune a bunch of people just to break even.
For headers, say you create headers on a limited run of 20 units. Tooling is expensive as well as materials. Now on a run of 2000 the prices on both decrease dramatically.
You simply can't compare 1 piece machined pulley to the aftermarket E/C pullies that are mechanically dampened. There is a lot more that goes into that, and then add in the limited run pricing as well.
The tuning side of thing shows that the cost associated with purchasing the software and hardware just to do the tuning is very high. Split that cost down by limited number to tunes and add in a small profit and you have to tune a bunch of people just to break even.
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#9
It's called being a smart businessman/woman, you charge what the market will bear.
If enough people object to the pricing, they don't buy the product and the price comes down.
If you as a business owner don't price to market, you're stupid and not making the profit that you could be making.
These are car parts were talking about, not the pricing of pediatric vaccines to the top 1% of wage earners.
If enough people object to the pricing, they don't buy the product and the price comes down.
If you as a business owner don't price to market, you're stupid and not making the profit that you could be making.
These are car parts were talking about, not the pricing of pediatric vaccines to the top 1% of wage earners.
Last edited by DFW01E55; 09-02-2009 at 01:23 PM.
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2003 E55 AMG
Your former Cobra can be used as an example. According to the MuscularMustangs website, a total of 19,140 Cobras were produced for the 2003-4 models years. Compare that to the 10,702 E55s and CLS55s produced for the USA market for the 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 model years combined.
If I'm a tuner and have the opportunity to spread development and production costs over a potentially much higher number of units sold, then clearly costs (and corresponding selling prices) can be lower.
#11
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Mercedes
There is also the issue of the price on the car and replacement of parts if they go bad due to the aftermarket modifications. Tuners have to take into account the cost of replacing big dollar items in these cars if something goes wrong due to the modifications. Just look at Angela's car (benzgal), her engine went due to a tune, and it was over $28k to replace. Or look at my car, the engine went out, and it was $29k to replace (btw thank god for easycare, i mean really!!!!). So the inflated pricing has some bearing to it. Also, there is the type of customer that you are selling to. Mustang owners, (in general, and I am not putting down them at all) generally will not expect the same level of customer care that would be necessary with a mercedes owner. (Ok, I am catching myself being a little bit naive, but its true). Just look at the cost of the car, $30ish thousand compared to over $100k, not saying that it should constitute huge pricing inflation, but it necessitates some..... IMHO
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#13
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Why are you charging this community inflated prices for virtually the same parts.
Heat exchanger
http://www.lightningforceperformance...roducts_id=319
Pulleys
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_140
Headers short and long
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_159
Throttle body
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_135
ECU tuning
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_136
catback exhaust
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_155
The craftsmanship is 10 times better than whats being offered in this community for a fraction of the cost.
It would almost make more sense to keep my car stock and just buy another Cobra.
Heat exchanger
http://www.lightningforceperformance...roducts_id=319
Pulleys
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_140
Headers short and long
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_159
Throttle body
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_135
ECU tuning
http://www.lightningforceperformance...&cPath=234_136
catback exhaust
http://www.lightningforceperformance...th=234_132_155
The craftsmanship is 10 times better than whats being offered in this community for a fraction of the cost.
It would almost make more sense to keep my car stock and just buy another Cobra.
This has been covered so many times before. Do your research on how many cobras vs. E55 have been sold. And don't forget most people that buy a s/c Cobra buy it with intensions to mod it. majority of MB owners DO NOT MOD their MBs. I see about 40 to 60 MBs roll through the door every day. Maybe 3 a month are modded. For every 1000 E55s maybe 50 will get some bolt ons and maybe a handfull will ever do a motor build up.
Next. I just checked the cost of a ecu for a Cobra. Its $355 list. A MB ecu is around $2000. Instead of complaining about how expensive the stuff is, you should buy a couple of MB ecus and reverse engineer the software. Than you can sell it for $399 like HPtuner.
Supply and demand does not allow for prices like fords and chevys. For every 1 benz at the dragstrip, there are 150+ cobras/vetts/f-bodies. So don't compare prices for components that are mass produced vs. parts that are made 10 or 20 at a time. Call any cnc shop and they will tell you its $500 each to make 10 parts. But its $100 each if you have 500 of them made.
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Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
As has already been mentioned: economies of scale.
End of story.
If you assume you can do better, then go into the business. But you won't because you can't. It's strictly an economic issue.
End of story.
If you assume you can do better, then go into the business. But you won't because you can't. It's strictly an economic issue.
#16
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Tuners have to take into account the cost of replacing big dollar items in these cars if something goes wrong due to the modifications. Just look at Angela's car (benzgal), her engine went due to a tune, and it was over $28k to replace. Or look at my car, the engine went out, and it was $29k to replace (btw thank god for easycare, i mean really!!!!).
I do not feel that this is a valid point as NONE of them would stand up and say, "I destroyed your engine and would like to buy you a replacement".
I do Appologize in advance to ANY tuner that has actually replaced an engine, and would gladly buy them a beer, and spread the word about their GREAT policy.
Now I do agree with the supply and demand scheme.
Even IF there are as many Cobras as E55's, How many E55's actually mod versus Cobra's
I would wager less than 1 out 30 E55 owners have EVER even thought of moddy their car. Were as the average Cobra owner is propably closer to 1 out 3, IMHO. Hence a MUCH smaller demand, and a MUCH larger price.
Last edited by MRAMG1; 09-02-2009 at 03:57 PM.
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2004 S55 AMG
It's called being a smart businessman/woman, you charge what the market will bear.
If enough people object to the pricing, they don't buy the product and the price comes down.
If you as a business owner don't price to market, you're stupid and not making the profit that you could be making.
These are car parts were talking about, not the pricing of pediatric vaccines to the top 1% of wage earners.
If enough people object to the pricing, they don't buy the product and the price comes down.
If you as a business owner don't price to market, you're stupid and not making the profit that you could be making.
These are car parts were talking about, not the pricing of pediatric vaccines to the top 1% of wage earners.
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God I wish I encountered such prices when I modded my E55
But I knew that I could never get the same or similar products for the same or similar prices as one pays when modding a Stang.....
But I knew that I could never get the same or similar products for the same or similar prices as one pays when modding a Stang.....
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