*** RARFINANCIAL'S THOUGHTS **
03-01-2010, 11:35 AM
#26
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CLS63
benzzzzz, Wow, we finally agree on some thing. 612.7 whp and still no
10's
Oh, and over 650 wtq too So you're right 1/4 track #'s not so good, I would even say they are very bad for that much whp and I say that every time I hit the track just ask MO, we talk about my 1/4 and are not happy with the numbers.
If I can't get the power to the ground then it's my fault not the cars,not the dyno and not the shops.
Being the fastest is not my goal, Getting MY BEAST to it's max HP is my goal. But now when it comes to a 1 mile race the HP adds up AS SEEN ON T.V
Sorry I had to 
So we cool now? come on and give me a BIG wet kiss on the cheek and tell me you love me 
10's
Oh, and over 650 wtq too So you're right 1/4 track #'s not so good, I would even say they are very bad for that much whp and I say that every time I hit the track just ask MO, we talk about my 1/4 and are not happy with the numbers.If I can't get the power to the ground then it's my fault not the cars,not the dyno and not the shops.
Being the fastest is not my goal, Getting MY BEAST to it's max HP is my goal. But now when it comes to a 1 mile race the HP adds up AS SEEN ON T.V
Sorry I had to So we cool now? come on and give me a BIG wet kiss on the cheek and tell me you love me
03-01-2010, 11:49 AM
#27
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2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
benzzzzz, Wow, we finally agree on some thing. 612.7 whp and still no
10's Oh, and over 650 wtq too So you're right 1/4 track #'s not so good, I would even say they are very bad for that much whp and I say that every time I hit the track just ask MO, we talk about my 1/4 and are not happy with the numbers.
If I can't get the power to the ground then it's my fault not the cars,not the dyno and not the shops.
Being the fastest is not my goal, Getting MY BEAST to it's max HP is my goal. But now when it comes to a 1 mile race the HP adds up AS SEEN ON T.V Sorry I had to So we cool now? come on and give me a BIG wet kiss on the cheek and tell me you love me
10's
Oh, and over 650 wtq too So you're right 1/4 track #'s not so good, I would even say they are very bad for that much whp and I say that every time I hit the track just ask MO, we talk about my 1/4 and are not happy with the numbers.If I can't get the power to the ground then it's my fault not the cars,not the dyno and not the shops.
Being the fastest is not my goal, Getting MY BEAST to it's max HP is my goal. But now when it comes to a 1 mile race the HP adds up AS SEEN ON T.V
Sorry I had to So we cool now? come on and give me a BIG wet kiss on the cheek and tell me you love me
03-01-2010, 02:27 PM
#28
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Despite Rick's ridiculously high hp numbers (I think he actually has the highest dynoing V8 and maybe 3rd or 4th Mercedes overall), the car did not translate those high numbers well enough on the track for some reason. During the last event he attended, his tires were breaking lose badly perhaps to 1/3 of the track. I assume the he's not using great tires and may need to change his launch technique to better fit the power his car is now making, but at this time, these are only guesses 
Not trying to start any war here, but why wasn't this "problem" of running rich at the top-end caught earlier? You and James dynoed the car so many times at different places, data logged so many variables at the track and on the streets, and even used all kinds of different equipment to do so
Not trying to start any war here, but why wasn't this "problem" of running rich at the top-end caught earlier? You and James dynoed the car so many times at different places, data logged so many variables at the track and on the streets, and even used all kinds of different equipment to do so
03-01-2010, 04:08 PM
#29
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C55,SL55,C63
Despite Rick's ridiculously high hp numbers (I think he actually has the highest dynoing V8 and maybe 3rd or 4th Mercedes overall), the car did not translate those high numbers well enough on the track for some reason. During the last event he attended, his tires were breaking lose badly perhaps to 1/3 of the track. I assume the he's not using great tires and may need to change his launch technique to better fit the power his car is now making, but at this time, these are only guesses
Not trying to start any war here, but why wasn't this "problem" of running rich at the top-end caught earlier? You and James dynoed the car so many times at different places, data logged so many variables at the track and on the streets, and even used all kinds of different equipment to do so
Not trying to start any war here, but why wasn't this "problem" of running rich at the top-end caught earlier? You and James dynoed the car so many times at different places, data logged so many variables at the track and on the streets, and even used all kinds of different equipment to do so
03-01-2010, 10:30 PM
#31
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Some header
I wanted to make this post for the guys who dont know.. Or the folks that haven't yet devoted all the time I have into creating, and testing headers. So this just sharing a bit of what I know.
First lets talk about some of the don't when making a header. You guys spend good money on a so called "Race header." You would expect them to be flawless From fitment, to finish. I cant stress this enough, the one tool that should never be used to get a set of headers to fit is... a hammer.
Beating the runners/primaries to clear an area, only means there is a bad design. Beating the header into submission can cause a weak stop and or premature failure, even when good metal is used.
Example of beating a header
4 into 1 merge collectors, IMO should all have what is called a pyramid in the center of the 4 primaries that are merging. Not just an empty space dumping into the exhaust system. a Merge collector with a pyramid center will help increase scavenging keeping exhaust velocity up when it exits into the exhaust system.
Here is an example of what a 4 into 1 collector should look like.
Here is an example of what one should not look like. In fact alot of people can be fooled, because on the outside they look just about the same. For those who know headers, its really about whats on the inside that counts. Granted this way can work, but i think you leave some power on the table when you do it this way.
TIG welding..
IMO all Race quality headers should be TIG welded. However filler rod like 308 should be used when making a header. Not just fusing the runners together and allowing the TIG touch to make the puddle out of the metal that is already there. Rather than taking material from the headers, you need to add material. So all headers should be made using the appropriate filler rod.
That leads to purge welding. IMO, Purge welding will help protect the weld quality to assure just as uniform on the inside as it is on the outside. Its kind of expensive to use up the gas by capping and filling a primary with gas, But its worth it.
Clean up your mess...
There are a truck load of great fabricators out there... The mark of a good fabricator is not only in his steady hand, but his attention to detail. IMO, cleaning up your mess is a big deal. We're talking about sensitivity to over all flow dynamics. The inside your the header where it meets the flange should be cleaned up and ground smooth as possible.
So remember, just because its big and shinny doesn't really mean its any good. Granted most systems are going to make power over stock.. At this price don't leave any power on the table.
Hope this helps some of you.
First lets talk about some of the don't when making a header. You guys spend good money on a so called "Race header." You would expect them to be flawless From fitment, to finish. I cant stress this enough, the one tool that should never be used to get a set of headers to fit is... a hammer.
Beating the runners/primaries to clear an area, only means there is a bad design. Beating the header into submission can cause a weak stop and or premature failure, even when good metal is used.
Example of beating a header
4 into 1 merge collectors, IMO should all have what is called a pyramid in the center of the 4 primaries that are merging. Not just an empty space dumping into the exhaust system. a Merge collector with a pyramid center will help increase scavenging keeping exhaust velocity up when it exits into the exhaust system.
Here is an example of what a 4 into 1 collector should look like.
Here is an example of what one should not look like. In fact alot of people can be fooled, because on the outside they look just about the same. For those who know headers, its really about whats on the inside that counts. Granted this way can work, but i think you leave some power on the table when you do it this way.
TIG welding..
IMO all Race quality headers should be TIG welded. However filler rod like 308 should be used when making a header. Not just fusing the runners together and allowing the TIG touch to make the puddle out of the metal that is already there. Rather than taking material from the headers, you need to add material. So all headers should be made using the appropriate filler rod.
That leads to purge welding. IMO, Purge welding will help protect the weld quality to assure just as uniform on the inside as it is on the outside. Its kind of expensive to use up the gas by capping and filling a primary with gas, But its worth it.
Clean up your mess...
There are a truck load of great fabricators out there... The mark of a good fabricator is not only in his steady hand, but his attention to detail. IMO, cleaning up your mess is a big deal. We're talking about sensitivity to over all flow dynamics. The inside your the header where it meets the flange should be cleaned up and ground smooth as possible.
So remember, just because its big and shinny doesn't really mean its any good. Granted most systems are going to make power over stock.. At this price don't leave any power on the table.
Hope this helps some of you.
03-01-2010, 11:39 PM
#32
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CLS63
Despite Rick's ridiculously high hp numbers (I think he actually has the highest dynoing V8 and maybe 3rd or 4th Mercedes overall), the car did not translate those high numbers well enough on the track for some reason. During the last event he attended, his tires were breaking lose badly perhaps to 1/3 of the track. I assume the he's not using great tires and may need to change his launch technique to better fit the power his car is now making, but at this time, these are only guesses
Not trying to start any war here, but why wasn't this "problem" of running rich at the top-end caught earlier? You and James dynoed the car so many times at different places, data logged so many variables at the track and on the streets, and even used all kinds of different equipment to do so
Not trying to start any war here, but why wasn't this "problem" of running rich at the top-end caught earlier? You and James dynoed the car so many times at different places, data logged so many variables at the track and on the streets, and even used all kinds of different equipment to do so
on the dyono before my last Famosa event all was fine but one last check and removal of the air box to make sure that every thing is ok(nitrous) and poof I must have torn the ruber seal then. That's the last time I removed it. As for driving it in the street, well the car felt very strong and I had NO idea there was a problem.. It seemed fine I'm sure glad I desided to do this new ///AMG HEADER project or I may have never known that the car was SICK. If there was something wrong on the dyno with James he would have seen it in a second. That guy keeps his eyes on the dyno data like a hawk when he has a car running making sure every thing is "A O.K" Like Hooley stated. it just happened. Like when a plug goes or a wire, It just goes POOF.. Hope that explains it. 
03-02-2010, 02:40 AM
#33
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V12-Biturbo
Interesting...
I wanted to make this post for the guys who dont know.. Or the folks that haven't yet devoted all the time I have into creating, and testing headers. So this just sharing a bit of what I know.
First lets talk about some of the don't when making a header. You guys spend good money on a so called "Race header." You would expect them to be flawless From fitment, to finish. I cant stress this enough, the one tool that should never be used to get a set of headers to fit is... a hammer.
Beating the runners/primaries to clear an area, only means there is a bad design. Beating the header into submission can cause a weak stop and or premature failure, even when good metal is used.
Example of beating a header
4 into 1 merge collectors, IMO should all have what is called a pyramid in the center of the 4 primaries that are merging. Not just an empty space dumping into the exhaust system. a Merge collector with a pyramid center will help increase scavenging keeping exhaust velocity up when it exits into the exhaust system.
Here is an example of what a 4 into 1 collector should look like.
Here is an example of what one should not look like. In fact alot of people can be fooled, because on the outside they look just about the same. For those who know headers, its really about whats on the inside that counts. Granted this way can work, but i think you leave some power on the table when you do it this way.
TIG welding..
IMO all Race quality headers should be TIG welded. However filler rod like 308 should be used when making a header. Not just fusing the runners together and allowing the TIG touch to make the puddle out of the metal that is already there. Rather than taking material from the headers, you need to add material. So all headers should be made using the appropriate filler rod.
That leads to purge welding. IMO, Purge welding will help protect the weld quality to assure just as uniform on the inside as it is on the outside. Its kind of expensive to use up the gas by capping and filling a primary with gas, But its worth it.
Clean up your mess...
There are a truck load of great fabricators out there... The mark of a good fabricator is not only in his steady hand, but his attention to detail. IMO, cleaning up your mess is a big deal. We're talking about sensitivity to over all flow dynamics. The inside your the header where it meets the flange should be cleaned up and ground smooth as possible.
So remember, just because its big and shinny doesn't really mean its any good. Granted most systems are going to make power over stock.. At this price don't leave any power on the table.
Hope this helps some of you.
First lets talk about some of the don't when making a header. You guys spend good money on a so called "Race header." You would expect them to be flawless From fitment, to finish. I cant stress this enough, the one tool that should never be used to get a set of headers to fit is... a hammer.
Beating the runners/primaries to clear an area, only means there is a bad design. Beating the header into submission can cause a weak stop and or premature failure, even when good metal is used.
Example of beating a header
4 into 1 merge collectors, IMO should all have what is called a pyramid in the center of the 4 primaries that are merging. Not just an empty space dumping into the exhaust system. a Merge collector with a pyramid center will help increase scavenging keeping exhaust velocity up when it exits into the exhaust system.
Here is an example of what a 4 into 1 collector should look like.
Here is an example of what one should not look like. In fact alot of people can be fooled, because on the outside they look just about the same. For those who know headers, its really about whats on the inside that counts. Granted this way can work, but i think you leave some power on the table when you do it this way.
TIG welding..
IMO all Race quality headers should be TIG welded. However filler rod like 308 should be used when making a header. Not just fusing the runners together and allowing the TIG touch to make the puddle out of the metal that is already there. Rather than taking material from the headers, you need to add material. So all headers should be made using the appropriate filler rod.
That leads to purge welding. IMO, Purge welding will help protect the weld quality to assure just as uniform on the inside as it is on the outside. Its kind of expensive to use up the gas by capping and filling a primary with gas, But its worth it.
Clean up your mess...
There are a truck load of great fabricators out there... The mark of a good fabricator is not only in his steady hand, but his attention to detail. IMO, cleaning up your mess is a big deal. We're talking about sensitivity to over all flow dynamics. The inside your the header where it meets the flange should be cleaned up and ground smooth as possible.
So remember, just because its big and shinny doesn't really mean its any good. Granted most systems are going to make power over stock.. At this price don't leave any power on the table.
Hope this helps some of you.
I wanted to make this post for the guys who dont know.. Or the folks that haven't yet devoted all the time I have into creating, and testing headers. So this just sharing a bit of what I know.
03-02-2010, 04:01 AM
#34
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C55,SL55,C63
I first learned to weld when I was 16, Im 31 now. I started out fixing desks in high school that fat kids broke. Recently, I've had a great opportunity to learn under my lead fabricator in the past year. If my hand was steady i would be better. IMO, I'm not consistent enough to weld a good set of headers, but our fabrication team is.
03-02-2010, 02:35 PM
#36
Super Moderator
Well one day your car is running great the next day poof some thing goes on the dyono before my last Famosa event all was fine but one last check and removal of the air box to make sure that every thing is ok(nitrous) and poof I must have torn the ruber seal then. That's the last time I removed it. As for driving it in the street, well the car felt very strong and I had NO idea there was a problem.. It seemed fine I'm sure glad I desided to do this new ///AMG HEADER project or I may have never known that the car was SICK. If there was something wrong on the dyno with James he would have seen it in a second. That guy keeps his eyes on the dyno data like a hawk when he has a car running making sure every thing is "A O.K" Like Hooley stated. it just happened. Like when a plug goes or a wire, It just goes POOF.. Hope that explains it.
on the dyono before my last Famosa event all was fine but one last check and removal of the air box to make sure that every thing is ok(nitrous) and poof I must have torn the ruber seal then. That's the last time I removed it. As for driving it in the street, well the car felt very strong and I had NO idea there was a problem.. It seemed fine I'm sure glad I desided to do this new ///AMG HEADER project or I may have never known that the car was SICK. If there was something wrong on the dyno with James he would have seen it in a second. That guy keeps his eyes on the dyno data like a hawk when he has a car running making sure every thing is "A O.K" Like Hooley stated. it just happened. Like when a plug goes or a wire, It just goes POOF.. Hope that explains it. Look forward to seeyin what you run...
03-02-2010, 05:05 PM
#37
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V12-Biturbo
I first learned to weld when I was 16, Im 31 now. I started out fixing desks in high school that fat kids broke. Recently, I've had a great opportunity to learn under my lead fabricator in the past year. If my hand was steady i would be better. IMO, I'm not consistent enough to weld a good set of headers, but our fabrication team is.
I wanted to make this post for the guys who dont know.. Or the folks that haven't yet devoted all the time I have into creating, and testing headers. So this just sharing a bit of what I know.
03-02-2010, 05:38 PM
#38
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C55,SL55,C63
Perhaps i shouldn't edit my post, as these headers and all MBH headers are my creation.
If you want to play semantics with the word "create" Find something better to do. It seems like you do not have good intentions. However this is just typed text. I could just be taking it the wrong way.
03-02-2010, 08:45 PM
#39
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V12-Biturbo
Not quite sure where you are going with this bro... If you just think that I just sit back and do nothing. That is far from the truth. All of my header designs have my hands and blood on them. 3AM in the morning and I'm under a lift with my fabrication team wondering how to clear a steering shaft.
Perhaps i shouldn't edit my post, as these headers and all MBH headers are my creation.
If you want to play semantics with the word "create" Find something better to do. It seems like you do not have good intentions. However this is just typed text. I could just be taking it the wrong way.
Perhaps i shouldn't edit my post, as these headers and all MBH headers are my creation.
If you want to play semantics with the word "create" Find something better to do. It seems like you do not have good intentions. However this is just typed text. I could just be taking it the wrong way.
(edited)
I'm just keepin' it real guy,
Originally Posted by hooleyboy
I first learned to weld when I was 16, Im 31 now. I started out fixing desks in high school that fat kids broke.
I first learned to weld when I was 16, Im 31 now. I started out fixing desks in high school that fat kids broke.
3AM in the morning and I'm under a lift with my fabrication team wondering how to clear a steering shaft.
Keep up the good work bra...Amazing header trade secrets BTW
You sure your Fab-team is A.O.K. w/you divulging such gems
Last edited by Thericker; 03-02-2010 at 09:23 PM.
03-03-2010, 12:27 AM
#42
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Hey Thericker, What's up man? why you f'in up my thread. I have a great idea. let hooley finish the headers , install them, get some dyno #'s and let him tell us what he thinks about the headers ,as I will do the same. I have three sponsors and venors working on this project at the same time TOGETHER and no bickering, This forum has gone to **** latley , If you dont like what some one has to say thats great but please let us enjoy the forum with out having to read through all the BS. Hooley does this for the sport of it not the money. I can tell you one thing, I spent a few hours hangin out with him last Friday and he is all about getting the job done and done right. He is a true car guy. One of the most honest guys I've met here on the forum. No AMG tax from this sposor just high quality products. Just ask the 55 guys about their headers. Thanks Thericker
03-03-2010, 12:37 AM
#44
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I here you there. Every time I hit the track it's with a different setup. I think I just found out what R&D means LOL.. once I get the setup I like then I have to learn to drive the car again. Well, at least my reaction time are still in double .00x that seems to never change ,, hahaha
03-03-2010, 07:35 PM
#45
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Hey Ricky, trying to get my post removed by mods is no way to keep me silent...
Hey Thericker, What's up man? why you f'in up my thread. I have a great idea. let hooley finish the headers , install them, get some dyno #'s and let him tell us what he thinks about the headers ,as I will do the same. I have three sponsors and venors working on this project at the same time TOGETHER and no bickering, This forum has gone to **** latley , If you dont like what some one has to say thats great but please let us enjoy the forum with out having to read through all the BS. Hooley does this for the sport of it not the money. I can tell you one thing, I spent a few hours hangin out with him last Friday and he is all about getting the job done and done right. He is a true car guy. One of the most honest guys I've met here on the forum. No AMG tax from this sposor just high quality products. Just ask the 55 guys about their headers. Thanks Thericker
I contacted you via PM few weeks ago about running your ubber fast Nitro bomb, you blew me off guess I'll start a new thread unless you sack-up & run me in Calexico
03-03-2010, 07:43 PM
#46
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Why don't you guys come to Famoso or Fontana on an open test n tune and go for some runs
Rick, we need to get you out of that cursed 11.6 to 11.7 range and into the 10s finally....
Sean, did you ever make it to Famoso open test n tune last weekend? If so, how did you run.... I heard the weather was very nice (a high of 59 F).... common man, spill the beans
Rick, we need to get you out of that cursed 11.6 to 11.7 range and into the 10s finally....
Sean, did you ever make it to Famoso open test n tune last weekend? If so, how did you run.... I heard the weather was very nice (a high of 59 F).... common man, spill the beans
03-03-2010, 08:05 PM
#47
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V12-Biturbo
Why don't you guys come to Famoso or Fontana on an open test n tune and go for some runs
Rick, we need to get you out of that cursed 11.6 to 11.7 range and into the 10s finally....
Sean, did you ever make it to Famoso open test n tune last weekend? If so, how did you run.... I heard the weather was very nice (a high of 59 F).... common man, spill the beans
Rick, we need to get you out of that cursed 11.6 to 11.7 range and into the 10s finally....
Sean, did you ever make it to Famoso open test n tune last weekend? If so, how did you run.... I heard the weather was very nice (a high of 59 F).... common man, spill the beans
I'll be heading their on 1st sunshine filled opportunity, don't care what friggin DA is just want to see some #'s out of this car period! I'll bet my left nut I rape Rarfinan's Nitro wagon anywhere anytime w/out Ice in my reservoir ONLY need 93-100 oct to beat his game.
03-03-2010, 09:27 PM
#48
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The link violation was removed & now understood (NO links to other MB sites permitted) though asking for my post deletion I contacted you via PM few weeks ago about running your ubber fast Nitro bomb, you blew me off guess I'll start a new thread unless you sack-up & run me in Calexico
I contacted you via PM few weeks ago about running your ubber fast Nitro bomb, you blew me off guess I'll start a new thread unless you sack-up & run me in Calexico Why would you ask? why do you care? what's with you man? are you a kid? I don't get it.. are you mad because Holley is making headers? are you mad because I have a CLS? are you mad because my car was on T.V? are you mad because I have a Renntech Tune? I DON'T GET IT.. are you just an angry boy I've been on this forum for 3 years, trackin with lots of members here and this is the first time I've ever had to deal with a high school issue.. Do I even know you? Dude go start your own thread and have some fun.. You are trippin .. I have a civic hatchback that can run 9's SO WHAT.. if I want the fastest car on the track it just takes money 
I'm sure a few members here and sponsor can tell you that money is NO issue with me and modding so if I wanted to I can pull the motor do a full build , so who care Look do us all a favor and please chill man. If you have nothing but B.S to post then go start your own thread. or have this one closed it's..
03-03-2010, 09:38 PM
#49
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Why don't you guys come to Famoso or Fontana on an open test n tune and go for some runs
Rick, we need to get you out of that cursed 11.6 to 11.7 range and into the 10s finally....
Sean, did you ever make it to Famoso open test n tune last weekend? If so, how did you run.... I heard the weather was very nice (a high of 59 F).... common man, spill the beans
Rick, we need to get you out of that cursed 11.6 to 11.7 range and into the 10s finally....
Sean, did you ever make it to Famoso open test n tune last weekend? If so, how did you run.... I heard the weather was very nice (a high of 59 F).... common man, spill the beans
And yes I'll send you some track slips when the car is done
seems that this forum has change for the worst this past year. Way to much crying and B.S. It's been great for a long whille but getting old fast..
Last edited by rarfinancial; 03-03-2010 at 09:45 PM.
