OK finally putting in the cams...
04-01-2010, 09:01 AM
#1
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OK finally putting in the cams...
Started this yesterday evening and should finish tonight.
Kleeman cams (Shrick) going in ... the install manual from K pretty comprehensive although some stuff is missed.
If you doing this couple of things to note...
Dont even try it if you dont have the MB special cam locking tools and the E18 torx torque wrench adaptor. Other tools you will need are various torx sockets and bits. 27mm open ended wrench, 27mm socket and 27mm deep socket.
Removing the Cam sensor is non trivial - you need to pull one of the serpentine pulleys off first and its right behind the I/C water lines.... obvious now, but only after struggling for 15mins.
Torquing the right bank cam is difficult as the power steering pump reservoir gets in the way of the wrench.... only way is to remove the reservoir (pita to drain fluid blah blah). Same story obvious now but I battled for at least 30mins before I gave in and removed the reservoir.
Removing the alternator - from the picture in the K instructions it looks like the Alternator sways back - well it does not. It slides out from right to left as you look at it .... from front of car. Being under the car here would have made this obvious.
The whole install can be done from the top of the car... no real need to pull the bottom shrouds off - although it would make some parts of the job a little easier (removing altenator and releasing cam chain tensioner).
Getting the cam gear back on the cam is tough - very tight fit. Best method is to compress it on as you tighten the bolt up but only do this if the key way is clear and it engages properly otherwise you could bend the cam gear / cam.
Torquing down the cam bridge is very time consuming and laborious - also make sure you dont lose your place when doing so or miss torque the same bolt twice when doing the 90deg step.
Torquing
is 10nm and then plus 90deg for the long bolts
is 15nm (and not too sure if the 90deg iss needed here too) for the short bolts.
Cam gear bolt is 50nm (44nm with the adaptor tool being used.) + 90deg (in reality you have to do 2 x45deg) - no space for a single 90deg sweep.
Cam tensioner is 80nm + 90deg
Cam cover is 10nm (no second stage) - make a note of which bolts go where - holes all over the place.
Special tools
A112.589.01.32 Left cam locking tool
A112.589.00.32 Right "
A112.589.01.03 E18 Hazet wrench plug in socket
A210.589.01.16 Hazet adaptor for Hazet socket - not needed if you have a Hazet plug in style torque wrench.
Other than that its pretty straight forward. I would give a full write up but I am to tired right now ... mbe another day. But if you use the above with the Kleeman instructions you should be golden.
Kleeman cams (Shrick) going in ... the install manual from K pretty comprehensive although some stuff is missed.
If you doing this couple of things to note...
Dont even try it if you dont have the MB special cam locking tools and the E18 torx torque wrench adaptor. Other tools you will need are various torx sockets and bits. 27mm open ended wrench, 27mm socket and 27mm deep socket.
Removing the Cam sensor is non trivial - you need to pull one of the serpentine pulleys off first and its right behind the I/C water lines.... obvious now, but only after struggling for 15mins.
Torquing the right bank cam is difficult as the power steering pump reservoir gets in the way of the wrench.... only way is to remove the reservoir (pita to drain fluid blah blah). Same story obvious now but I battled for at least 30mins before I gave in and removed the reservoir.
Removing the alternator - from the picture in the K instructions it looks like the Alternator sways back - well it does not. It slides out from right to left as you look at it .... from front of car. Being under the car here would have made this obvious.
The whole install can be done from the top of the car... no real need to pull the bottom shrouds off - although it would make some parts of the job a little easier (removing altenator and releasing cam chain tensioner).
Getting the cam gear back on the cam is tough - very tight fit. Best method is to compress it on as you tighten the bolt up but only do this if the key way is clear and it engages properly otherwise you could bend the cam gear / cam.
Torquing down the cam bridge is very time consuming and laborious - also make sure you dont lose your place when doing so or miss torque the same bolt twice when doing the 90deg step.
Torquing
is 10nm and then plus 90deg for the long bolts
is 15nm (and not too sure if the 90deg iss needed here too) for the short bolts.
Cam gear bolt is 50nm (44nm with the adaptor tool being used.) + 90deg (in reality you have to do 2 x45deg) - no space for a single 90deg sweep.
Cam tensioner is 80nm + 90deg
Cam cover is 10nm (no second stage) - make a note of which bolts go where - holes all over the place.
Special tools
A112.589.01.32 Left cam locking tool
A112.589.00.32 Right "
A112.589.01.03 E18 Hazet wrench plug in socket
A210.589.01.16 Hazet adaptor for Hazet socket - not needed if you have a Hazet plug in style torque wrench.
Other than that its pretty straight forward. I would give a full write up but I am to tired right now ... mbe another day. But if you use the above with the Kleeman instructions you should be golden.
Last edited by stevebez; 04-01-2010 at 09:25 AM.
04-01-2010, 12:27 PM
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///AMG
Thanks for the heads up 
I was looking into getting a set
Please let me know your thoughts 
I was looking into getting a set
Please let me know your thoughts Started this yesterday evening and should finish tonight.
Kleeman cams (Shrick) going in ... the install manual from K pretty comprehensive although some stuff is missed.
If you doing this couple of things to note...
Dont even try it if you dont have the MB special cam locking tools and the E18 torx torque wrench adaptor. Other tools you will need are various torx sockets and bits. 27mm open ended wrench, 27mm socket and 27mm deep socket.
Removing the Cam sensor is non trivial - you need to pull one of the serpentine pulleys off first and its right behind the I/C water lines.... obvious now, but only after struggling for 15mins.
Torquing the right bank cam is difficult as the power steering pump reservoir gets in the way of the wrench.... only way is to remove the reservoir (pita to drain fluid blah blah). Same story obvious now but I battled for at least 30mins before I gave in and removed the reservoir.
Removing the alternator - from the picture in the K instructions it looks like the Alternator sways back - well it does not. It slides out from right to left as you look at it .... from front of car. Being under the car here would have made this obvious.
The whole install can be done from the top of the car... no real need to pull the bottom shrouds off - although it would make some parts of the job a little easier (removing altenator and releasing cam chain tensioner).
Getting the cam gear back on the cam is tough - very tight fit. Best method is to compress it on as you tighten the bolt up but only do this if the key way is clear and it engages properly otherwise you could bend the cam gear / cam.
Torquing down the cam bridge is very time consuming and laborious - also make sure you dont lose your place when doing so or miss torque the same bolt twice when doing the 90deg step.
Torquing
is 10nm and then plus 90deg for the long bolts
is 15nm (and not too sure if the 90deg iss needed here too) for the short bolts.
Cam gear bolt is 50nm (44nm with the adaptor tool being used.) + 90deg (in reality you have to do 2 x45deg) - no space for a single 90deg sweep.
Cam tensioner is 80nm + 90deg
Cam cover is 10nm (no second stage) - make a note of which bolts go where - holes all over the place.
Special tools
A112.589.01.32 Left cam locking tool
A112.589.00.32 Right "
A112.589.01.03 E18 Hazet wrench plug in socket
A210.589.01.16 Hazet adaptor for Hazet socket - not needed if you have a Hazet plug in style torque wrench.
Other than that its pretty straight forward. I would give a full write up but I am to tired right now ... mbe another day. But if you use the above with the Kleeman instructions you should be golden.
Kleeman cams (Shrick) going in ... the install manual from K pretty comprehensive although some stuff is missed.
If you doing this couple of things to note...
Dont even try it if you dont have the MB special cam locking tools and the E18 torx torque wrench adaptor. Other tools you will need are various torx sockets and bits. 27mm open ended wrench, 27mm socket and 27mm deep socket.
Removing the Cam sensor is non trivial - you need to pull one of the serpentine pulleys off first and its right behind the I/C water lines.... obvious now, but only after struggling for 15mins.
Torquing the right bank cam is difficult as the power steering pump reservoir gets in the way of the wrench.... only way is to remove the reservoir (pita to drain fluid blah blah). Same story obvious now but I battled for at least 30mins before I gave in and removed the reservoir.
Removing the alternator - from the picture in the K instructions it looks like the Alternator sways back - well it does not. It slides out from right to left as you look at it .... from front of car. Being under the car here would have made this obvious.
The whole install can be done from the top of the car... no real need to pull the bottom shrouds off - although it would make some parts of the job a little easier (removing altenator and releasing cam chain tensioner).
Getting the cam gear back on the cam is tough - very tight fit. Best method is to compress it on as you tighten the bolt up but only do this if the key way is clear and it engages properly otherwise you could bend the cam gear / cam.
Torquing down the cam bridge is very time consuming and laborious - also make sure you dont lose your place when doing so or miss torque the same bolt twice when doing the 90deg step.
Torquing
is 10nm and then plus 90deg for the long bolts
is 15nm (and not too sure if the 90deg iss needed here too) for the short bolts.
Cam gear bolt is 50nm (44nm with the adaptor tool being used.) + 90deg (in reality you have to do 2 x45deg) - no space for a single 90deg sweep.
Cam tensioner is 80nm + 90deg
Cam cover is 10nm (no second stage) - make a note of which bolts go where - holes all over the place.
Special tools
A112.589.01.32 Left cam locking tool
A112.589.00.32 Right "
A112.589.01.03 E18 Hazet wrench plug in socket
A210.589.01.16 Hazet adaptor for Hazet socket - not needed if you have a Hazet plug in style torque wrench.
Other than that its pretty straight forward. I would give a full write up but I am to tired right now ... mbe another day. But if you use the above with the Kleeman instructions you should be golden.
04-02-2010, 01:59 PM
#3
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Finished car last night and gave it a once over this am and cranked her up. I let the motor idle for quite a while. It took a while to start as you had to disconnect the fuel line to the injector ring, so some pressure needed to build.
Once going sounded pretty normal, but when warm sounded more "rumbly", if only slightly. So had to drive to the shop to get some power steering fluid as I had lost a bit when I removed the reservoir.
So I gently eased up on the engine speed (once the engine was fully warm) and then took her onto the freeway. The on ramp to the freeway provides a safe and good way to get brief flat out runs.
Car is rediculously strong. One thing that is immediately obvious is there is no plateau now. Previously you could feel the car plateau slightly at and above 5k rpm +... now you rev through to 6500 with no let up in pull ... quite amazing. The closest comparison I can come up with (if you have been in a V12 turbo series AMG) is the top end feels similar to the V12 top end ... i.e. it just keeps pulling.... but with the characteristic rumble of the S/C V8 ... best of both worlds I think.
I am not sure how much HP this is giving me, but I guess the claimed ~25-30hp sounds about right. I dont think there is any overall torque increase, but think the profile is changed to provide more torque at the top end. The car just revs so freely now and seems, wierdly, smoother - I thought it might be more rumbly on top for some reason.
The combination of all the bits have blended into a very good setup now. Quaife & 2.82 diff is awesome and the EGS is also perfect now. Gearshifts are just superb. I am so gratefull that in manual the shift from 1st to 2nd is automatic at the limiter (a result of the EGS modifcation) since it comes up soooo quickly. Also I can buffer down shifts. Two quick taps ans the car will get down 2 gears as soon as its feasible. Perfect.
The rear trunk cooler is a must have to a heavily modded car and a relatively easy fix to the heatsoak problem.
The Air box, filters, 180mm pulley, HEMS, cams, 80mm TB are all combining superbly well now, so well in fact I am done with the car. Thats it - no more mods. The only things I will do now is to make things look a bit better .. mbe get a purpose built rear tank, get black hoses where I have unsightly blue for example. So minor stuff to do now.
I love her all over again and frankly don't think I will ever sell her, had her since new, last one to come to the UK, and she's mine.
Whats left is to drive her and first oportunity will be the Fighting Torque event in August, which is a 1 mile drag race. I hope to publish some good 60-130 times there.... thats my target with this car. Good 60-130 times.
We shall see.
Once going sounded pretty normal, but when warm sounded more "rumbly", if only slightly. So had to drive to the shop to get some power steering fluid as I had lost a bit when I removed the reservoir.
So I gently eased up on the engine speed (once the engine was fully warm) and then took her onto the freeway. The on ramp to the freeway provides a safe and good way to get brief flat out runs.
Car is rediculously strong. One thing that is immediately obvious is there is no plateau now. Previously you could feel the car plateau slightly at and above 5k rpm +... now you rev through to 6500 with no let up in pull ... quite amazing. The closest comparison I can come up with (if you have been in a V12 turbo series AMG) is the top end feels similar to the V12 top end ... i.e. it just keeps pulling.... but with the characteristic rumble of the S/C V8 ... best of both worlds I think.
I am not sure how much HP this is giving me, but I guess the claimed ~25-30hp sounds about right. I dont think there is any overall torque increase, but think the profile is changed to provide more torque at the top end. The car just revs so freely now and seems, wierdly, smoother - I thought it might be more rumbly on top for some reason.
The combination of all the bits have blended into a very good setup now. Quaife & 2.82 diff is awesome and the EGS is also perfect now. Gearshifts are just superb. I am so gratefull that in manual the shift from 1st to 2nd is automatic at the limiter (a result of the EGS modifcation) since it comes up soooo quickly. Also I can buffer down shifts. Two quick taps ans the car will get down 2 gears as soon as its feasible. Perfect.
The rear trunk cooler is a must have to a heavily modded car and a relatively easy fix to the heatsoak problem.
The Air box, filters, 180mm pulley, HEMS, cams, 80mm TB are all combining superbly well now, so well in fact I am done with the car. Thats it - no more mods. The only things I will do now is to make things look a bit better .. mbe get a purpose built rear tank, get black hoses where I have unsightly blue for example. So minor stuff to do now.
I love her all over again and frankly don't think I will ever sell her, had her since new, last one to come to the UK, and she's mine.
Whats left is to drive her and first oportunity will be the Fighting Torque event in August, which is a 1 mile drag race. I hope to publish some good 60-130 times there.... thats my target with this car. Good 60-130 times.
We shall see.
Last edited by stevebez; 04-02-2010 at 02:17 PM.
04-03-2010, 09:36 AM
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CLS55 & CL CK60
i had pretty much the same experience. dyno chart never stops climbing even at max rpm. no plateau and no decrease anywhere in the power curve. the rumbling sound is addictive. enjoy!
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04-04-2010, 11:28 AM
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AMG E55 W211
Kleemann cams, don't you need the K4 engine remap also?
I have a K2 package, cams are a tempting final option, Kleemann K4 is TB, Cams & remap I think?
Has anyone gone from K2 to K4, would love to know just how much difference it really makes on the road?
I have a K2 package, cams are a tempting final option, Kleemann K4 is TB, Cams & remap I think?
Has anyone gone from K2 to K4, would love to know just how much difference it really makes on the road?
04-06-2010, 05:38 AM
#10
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As I said happy I have the cams make the car feel smoother up top and relentless!
04-06-2010, 05:50 AM
#11
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Thanks for all your kind comments !
Yes I would really like to see a dyno now of this monster. Sure feels like a monster....
If I had to do the job now it would take me half the time... as is always the case really. Took me 3 evenings after work all in. 1st evening break down, second evening rhs cam (I was tired), last evening 2nd cam, rebuild and all checks. Left the test drive for the following morning, after further checks - which found the breather pipe between airbox and cam cover unconnected ... tut-tut! I always forget this piece when re-reing the airbox.
I would say front to back you are looking at one full day 8 am - 6pm , a good experienced shop could probably do it in 3-4 hours with a couple of guys on the case.
Cams around $1700 if I recall correcty and tools mbe 50$ or so... From what i remember I dont think they are running any more of these profiles - so what they have left is what they will sell and then thats it.
Yes I would really like to see a dyno now of this monster. Sure feels like a monster....
If I had to do the job now it would take me half the time... as is always the case really. Took me 3 evenings after work all in. 1st evening break down, second evening rhs cam (I was tired), last evening 2nd cam, rebuild and all checks. Left the test drive for the following morning, after further checks - which found the breather pipe between airbox and cam cover unconnected ... tut-tut! I always forget this piece when re-reing the airbox.
I would say front to back you are looking at one full day 8 am - 6pm , a good experienced shop could probably do it in 3-4 hours with a couple of guys on the case.
Cams around $1700 if I recall correcty and tools mbe 50$ or so... From what i remember I dont think they are running any more of these profiles - so what they have left is what they will sell and then thats it.
06-01-2010, 06:41 AM
#12
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Given bassn07's recent cam install I thought I would update this thread with data
So got a dyno chart from Kleemann re a cam install they did on a K3 package... this is K3 and just added cams ... so K4 - which gets the same ecu tune as K3 btw.
Power goes from 603 to 625 @ ~5885 rpms... peak power delivered at same rpm which is interesting. Torque goes from 872nm to 912 @ ~3590rpm also roughly the same rpm. FWIW my car dynoed 613 @ 5720 & 928nm @ 3306 before the cams were installed on the same dyno; the extra torque due to the 180mm pulley IMO.
Couple of things to note which from my butt dyno are quite interesting ... It FEELS as though there is more top end power and follow through than the chart indicates ... what the chart does not tell you is how much more quickly and eager the car is to rev... this is perhaps depicted in a power curve thats steeper than my power curve pre cams.
The mid curve jump is not really noticble as the car already pulls so hard the increment is not noticed mid curve - but you can definitely feel it 4.5krpm +
With cams, at the limiter, there is no let up I can notice on my car - which is wierd relative to their chart as the chart says peak power comes in fractionally lower than on the K3. There is more of a plateau on my power curve up top (pre cams) - but now with cams the top end "revablity" feels more pronounced than what the chart shows. Having said that peak power comes in higher than my peak pre cams - but only +-100rpm and the curve is more peaky than my dyno pre cams. I dont have a post cam dyno for my car
unfortunately...
So here is some solid data to consider, and a 22hp jump is not too shabby.
So got a dyno chart from Kleemann re a cam install they did on a K3 package... this is K3 and just added cams ... so K4 - which gets the same ecu tune as K3 btw.
Power goes from 603 to 625 @ ~5885 rpms... peak power delivered at same rpm which is interesting. Torque goes from 872nm to 912 @ ~3590rpm also roughly the same rpm. FWIW my car dynoed 613 @ 5720 & 928nm @ 3306 before the cams were installed on the same dyno; the extra torque due to the 180mm pulley IMO.
Couple of things to note which from my butt dyno are quite interesting ... It FEELS as though there is more top end power and follow through than the chart indicates ... what the chart does not tell you is how much more quickly and eager the car is to rev... this is perhaps depicted in a power curve thats steeper than my power curve pre cams.
The mid curve jump is not really noticble as the car already pulls so hard the increment is not noticed mid curve - but you can definitely feel it 4.5krpm +
With cams, at the limiter, there is no let up I can notice on my car - which is wierd relative to their chart as the chart says peak power comes in fractionally lower than on the K3. There is more of a plateau on my power curve up top (pre cams) - but now with cams the top end "revablity" feels more pronounced than what the chart shows. Having said that peak power comes in higher than my peak pre cams - but only +-100rpm and the curve is more peaky than my dyno pre cams. I dont have a post cam dyno for my car
unfortunately...So here is some solid data to consider, and a 22hp jump is not too shabby.
Last edited by stevebez; 06-01-2010 at 06:57 AM.
