Pbglas

I have just placed an order for a E55 AMG. However, in looking at the MBSPY site I was alarmed to hear of fit and finish issues at MB. I am getting a bit nervous. I would appreciate any thoughts.

mac2001

Would you give us the URL for this MBSPY site. I am curious to see what it says.

BTW, love the fit and finish on my 01 E55.

Pbglas

The url for the MBSPY site discussing quality is

http://mbspy.com/mbquality.htm

Thanks for your reassuring note. I would appreciate your reaction to the article.

startcraft33

It's only the camera angle. There is nothing to do with the fit.

mikE55

Most of the quality issues have been with the M-class, A-class, and C-class. Mercedes was suppose to have put an extra effort into the quality of the new E class, as its their bread and butter car.

The build quality of my 02 E55 is excellent inside and out. The paint finish is flawless.

amg55

If you look back through major media news stories about 3 years ago you'll find that Daimler-Chrysler acknowledged that they had begun to suffer huge losses partly due to shoddy build quality, and the inherent cost of covering warranteed repairs.
The M class topped the list of offenders within the MB lineup.

The new SL was supposed to have set a new standard of quality for MB, and from everything I've seen/read/heard, the SL has indeed proven to be a very tight package. Given that it was an all new design with many new technologies (thus, a few glitches are to be expected) I think it has provided strong evidence that MB CAN still build cars which set the industry standard for quality.

As for the new E, mikE55 is exactly right. This is the keystone vehicle in MB's lineup. It followed the design and roll out of the SL by a few months. While it, too, is expected to have a few flaws since it's an entirely new design, thus far reviews have been very favorable.

Pbglas

Thak you. That is most reassuring. Are there any others who have had experinece with poor build quality on recent MB's other than M?

richard brown

I'm 12 days off the road in 5 months with my 02 E55!!! is that a record???
As far as MB build quality is concerned check out JD Powers, MB do not rank as far as problems per 100 vehicles its all Japanese cars that take the top 10 spots the Lexus LS430 since 1990 has won every qtr with around 30 problems per 100 vehicles Benz are typically 70 to 300 problems per 100 vehicles depending on which model.
Also if you visit the factories MB have around 4-5 times as much quality control personel as Lexus on the line, its a completely different philosophy.
However when was the last time you drove a no compromise drivers car that was Japanese???

fiftyfive4me

I have 21000+ on my 01 E55 and had to replace the actuator on the exhaust system.

Pbglas

Richard Brown: 12 days in five months is a record in what way? Too many days or too few? Seems like a lot.

Fiftyfive4me: Was the actuator the only non-routine repair?

richard brown

PB, way too many should be zero as far as I am concerned.

fiftyfive4me

Pbglas - and the express window driver side.

Rich

I have been very disappointed with MB quality. In my '01 E55 I had the air flow sensor replaced twice, throttle actuator replaced once, windshield replaced (crakced) twice, power seat gremlins (never while at dealer). In my '99 ML430 I have had to replace the power window switch for the driver's window three times. I finally traded in both of my MB's for an Infiniti FX 45. I have an 211 E55 on order, waiting for Comand, but probably won't take delivery on it.
rich
'96 911 C4 Cab
'03 FX 45
'01 E55, '99 ML430 - gone

reb13

My 02 CLK430 cab is my first MB, and I too have been somewhat disappointed with quality. I am amazed at how many squeaks and rattles that car has (and that cupholder just keeps breaking). I'm giving it another shot with the E55 hoping that the problems are attributable to the fact that cab has less structural integrity. Frankly, I did not order the pano roof for fear that it too would increase the potential for squeaks and rattles.

Nighttrain

I have a 1999 S class and the car has so many issues it's unreal.

Rich Brown..u say that MB has 4-5 times as many quality control people than japanese car companies.....then if this many people are having issues, where is there quality control going?

I think the definition of no compromises should mean not compromising build quality and reliability either...for that in itself is an engineering feat and an artform.

My SC400 Lexus is 150k miles plus and still going strong. THe Sclass is 60K and has had twice the maintenance...

amg55

If you are going to use the top Japanese marques (Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus) as benchmarks for comparison, you will NEVER, and I mean never, be happy with Porsche/BMW/MB/Audi for build quality.
You must choose your poison.
The Japanese turn out extremely reliable, high quality vehicles at the top end, and very fairly priced, too.
And did anyone notice that none other than HYUNDAI has risen to #2 in initial quality (tied with Honda, behind Toyota) in the most recent assessment by CR?

The downside with the Jap cars, of course, is that they're BOOORING. And not always particularly attractive.

When you think about MB build quality and reliability you must compare with German, Brit and US manufacturers.
What leaves many people confused is the fact that the MB of yesteryear was the gold standard for build quality.
Why is this no longer true?
1) Relative cost of building technically sophisticated cars has increased significantly vs. 30 years ago, and MB would not be competitive if they held to the same relative standards as they did yesteryear.
2) There were no non-economy Japanese cars for comparison in the US 30 years ago. That is, there wasn't much competition for MB in terms of build quality 3 decades ago.

Nighttrain

Well..yes...no comparison, the driving experience of MB, BMW, and Audi is MUCH better than any japanese cars.

My point is not that japanese cars are better.

My point is that if MB can be so advanced and so innovative in so many other areas.....why not shore up the reliability end as well. Since they ahve the resources and 4-5 times the QA personnel...wouldn't it make sense to be the best in ALL categories INCLUDING relability and build quality?

Really..what's the point of being innovative, if your technological innovations, rattle and require constant maintenance? It's more annoying than progressive.

That's the point.

benzgirl79

Sit inside a new E class if you are worried- the vehicle is top knotch.

Pbglas

I did sit inside an E500 Sport. It was nice leading me to order an E55. But while I like the assmed performance I dont want to spend 80K and buy trouble.

Can we hear from people who have not had much problem with post '98 E Class particularly the AMG? As well as those who have.

I am old enough to recall the days when MB was the standard for reliability. Even 10 years ago I think it was rated highly by Consumer Reports.

Nighttrain

I have had a seat in the new E class and test drove an E500 around a track.

I'm sure the AMG's quality is on par w/that car.

Mercedes quality has always been there..that's not the point...my main point was RELIABLITY.

IF they are so technologically sophisticated..I was just hoping they'd also put in the time to make that technology last and be reliable u know?

mbmb

I have an '02 E55 with 30,000 fast miles. I bought it new in December '01. I have had two problems worth mentioning:

A valve lifter collapsed at about 10,000 miles, causing engine noise. Dealership replaced all lifters under warranty. No damage to the engine. Within 20 miles, another lifter had gone flat. Back to the dealership for another set. Again, replaced under warranty; again, no engine damage.

Other problem was with front right headlight. It had problems auto-levelling. Would jump up and down randomly. After two replacements of the headlight assembly, a competent tech found a short in the wiring harness. No more problem.

No other problems. Overall I'm very satisfied with my E55's quality (but I've never owned a Lexus).

Nighttrain

I rest my case =)

mbmb

Don't rest your case quite yet. We haven't seen much evidence. Those of us who have had problems are going to be more vocal than those (the majority?) who have not had any.

From my experience, I would say:

1. AMG had a quality control problem with those valve lifters. I've never heard of anyone else losing an E55 lifter. I was shocked that the replacement lifters failed as well.

2. The local dealerships definitely had a competency issue with the headlight.

Actually, I have found the local dealerships to have lots of competency issues (beginning with misinflated tires at delivery), which DBAG needs badly to address. It's amazing how little the local salespeople and service writers (in the fourth largest city in the US) know about the product they're selling.

I drive the car hard enough that I should have shaken out all of the problems in the first year. Knock on wood.

No squeaks, no rattles, no constant maintenance.

Do some cars really come out of the factory fully sorted-out?

mikE55

Build quality and reliability are related but slightly different topics. However my E55 has been top notch on both. As I've stated before, the build quality on my car is excellent. I've owned several high line vehicles, and have a pretty good eye for paint quality, fit and finish etc. The only thing I wish for is better quality dash materials, the plastic doesn't have the right look and feel. (The new E & S seem to use the same plastic.)

I've had my car new since Oct. 01, and its been very reliable (knock on wood). Other than a minor sun shade rattle, which has been fixed, I've had zero problems. And I drive the car quite HARD.

But look at it this way, what makes you happy? Take a look at roadfly and you'll see many problems with the BMW M3, far more than your average AMG. But their owners love their cars and wouldn't dream of anything else. Well its the same for most AMG owners as well. Lexus maybe tops in reliability, but they'll be eating my dust all day long.

amg55

Build quality and reliability, while separate issues, are closely related.
I'm no fan of Lexus or Toyota from the "joy of ownership" standpoint, because I've had them (many years past) and got bored very quickly...learned my lesson.
But I really doubt you'll ever read about MB or BMW surpassing Lexus/Toyota within the next 10 years on the reliability scale.
Nighttrain wants to know why.
I don't have an answer except that we all know that reliability is a major point of emphasis for the Japanese auto makers, and a secondary one at present in Germany.

If reliability is a really big deal for a prospective buyer, and driving pleasure is not too important, I strongly recommend Lexus. I have a close friend who fits that description exactly. I talked him into buying an LS430 a year ago and he remains overjoyed. He uses it exclusively to commute in Chicago----and he drives like my grandmother.