Headers!!
08-15-2010, 09:36 PM
#27
Former Vendor of MBWorld
My .02 You are purchasing more than just a bunch of stainless or mild steel. In real life, there are real problems. You want a company that is not going to hand you a bunch of excuses when issues arise.
My dealings with Mike are not complete, but I can honestly say he has step up to the plate. In the future, I will submit a full write up on his headers.
My dealings with Mike are not complete, but I can honestly say he has step up to the plate. In the future, I will submit a full write up on his headers.
Point is, I sent him a drivers side header and it didnt fit. It was made on a bend jig. It was to the point That I rolled in an other E55, built the header again corrected the jig. Then it was found out that some mild steel vbands slipped through our eyes. So rather than have him send the header back and get it replaced with stainless vbands. I'm sending him a passenger side header as well.
In my eyes, If one small thing is wrong the whole thing is wrong... Being a part if this Mercedes header game you have got to make it right and be honest. You have people counting on you to do that.
Also Bruce at TTMotorsports is a guy who knows his stuff, If you get a chance to have him work on your car, don't hesitate. The guy knows his stuff. His help has been evaluable. To have a guy like that on the forums is just a real asset.
08-15-2010, 10:23 PM
#28
Thanks Lowpro! I try to lead an open book and be as honest as possible when it comes to my headers. Last thing I do is try to run or hide from any issues. I've been on the short end of customer service much like all of us have at some point. So taking care of the customer is something I hold in high regard.
Point is, I sent him a drivers side header and it didnt fit. It was made on a bend jig. It was to the point That I rolled in an other E55, built the header again corrected the jig. Then it was found out that some mild steel vbands slipped through our eyes. So rather than have him send the header back and get it replaced with stainless vbands. I'm sending him a passenger side header as well.
In my eyes, If one small thing is wrong the whole thing is wrong... Being a part if this Mercedes header game you have got to make it right and be honest. You have people counting on you to do that.
Also Bruce at TTMotorsports is a guy who knows his stuff, If you get a chance to have him work on your car, don't hesitate. The guy knows his stuff. His help has been evaluable. To have a guy like that on the forums is just a real asset.
Point is, I sent him a drivers side header and it didnt fit. It was made on a bend jig. It was to the point That I rolled in an other E55, built the header again corrected the jig. Then it was found out that some mild steel vbands slipped through our eyes. So rather than have him send the header back and get it replaced with stainless vbands. I'm sending him a passenger side header as well.
In my eyes, If one small thing is wrong the whole thing is wrong... Being a part if this Mercedes header game you have got to make it right and be honest. You have people counting on you to do that.
Also Bruce at TTMotorsports is a guy who knows his stuff, If you get a chance to have him work on your car, don't hesitate. The guy knows his stuff. His help has been evaluable. To have a guy like that on the forums is just a real asset.
Thanks Mike, I look forwarding to reaping the benefit of all the ups and downs we had. The end result is a more polished product which all future orders will benefit from.
-lowpro
08-16-2010, 05:11 AM
#30
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+1 - went down the same expensive road.
08-16-2010, 01:01 PM
#31
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03 e55 amg
I wouldn't knock any headers you guys put on your E55's. There are headers out there that are performing really well for a lot of members. There is a truth that might be slightly overlooked when trying to find the right header at the right price your your car.
That truth is not all headers, long or short are made the same. Some have a better design. Some are made out of better materials. Some are made over seas. The list goes on.
Here is a look at a bad header. This header is for a C230 coupe and you can find them all over ebay for like $200.
Although this header is made out of stainless steel. Its made out of Chinese stainless which is not as strong or as good as US stainless. This header also has a very bad design. In fact we had a customer come in saying his header was cracked. After inspection we confirmed there was indeed a crack. Rather than go out and just buy another $200 header. We made him a new one picking up 30whp over this ebay header. This is just a classic case of headers not all begin the same.
While keeping your budget in mind, The decision IMO, gets harder. To the point were some trade offs come into play. Do you want over seas stainless or American stainless? DO you want Mild steel over US stainless? Or do you want over sea stainless vs mild steel?
Then you have to factor in witch one has the best design? Maybe the mild steel header is better designed then the US stainless header?
The decision can be really hard. Taking myself out of the header biz for a second. We have seen headers for these cars made out 304SS USA, Chinese SS, 409SS (409 is the minimum allowed to be called stainless steel), Mild steel, Mild steel coated...
Point is, buying headers for your car (long or short) is a lot harder when you factor in all the details. All of us I would assume want the best for your car. So its important to make an informed decision on something that is going to work well for you, your budget, and your situation.
That truth is not all headers, long or short are made the same. Some have a better design. Some are made out of better materials. Some are made over seas. The list goes on.
Here is a look at a bad header. This header is for a C230 coupe and you can find them all over ebay for like $200.
Although this header is made out of stainless steel. Its made out of Chinese stainless which is not as strong or as good as US stainless. This header also has a very bad design. In fact we had a customer come in saying his header was cracked. After inspection we confirmed there was indeed a crack. Rather than go out and just buy another $200 header. We made him a new one picking up 30whp over this ebay header. This is just a classic case of headers not all begin the same.
While keeping your budget in mind, The decision IMO, gets harder. To the point were some trade offs come into play. Do you want over seas stainless or American stainless? DO you want Mild steel over US stainless? Or do you want over sea stainless vs mild steel?
Then you have to factor in witch one has the best design? Maybe the mild steel header is better designed then the US stainless header?
The decision can be really hard. Taking myself out of the header biz for a second. We have seen headers for these cars made out 304SS USA, Chinese SS, 409SS (409 is the minimum allowed to be called stainless steel), Mild steel, Mild steel coated...
Point is, buying headers for your car (long or short) is a lot harder when you factor in all the details. All of us I would assume want the best for your car. So its important to make an informed decision on something that is going to work well for you, your budget, and your situation.
Many ppl make water filled header so they car be 100% tuned length
Does tuned length make more power toque then none tuned legnth headers.
please let us know what u think about tuned and none tuned legnth headers
08-17-2010, 01:11 AM
#32
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Ideally you want a tuned length header, But these engine bays are getting smaller every year. So stuffing a 100% equal length or "tuned header" from a long tube perspective can be very difficult. You have so many things in close proximity that have to be taken into account. Like the way the steering shaft rotates, motor torque movement. When you are done factoring in all aspects that need to be considered... Some trade offs need to be made.
With long tube headers of 55k AMG's, I'm sure you could stuff a 100% equal length header under the car, but I dont think you would be able to turn the steering wheel.
With shorty headers, you now have the issue stuffing all the runners into a small area, so it mates to the cat pipes. This is when you start to see primary tubes spliced into other primary's. will those styles make power? Sure, anything is better than stock.
On The PLM headers, you have 2 primary pipes that are the same size in length. However one primary is spliced into the the other. Its like trying to stuff 10lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag. To me thats not exactly ideal, but you have a limited area to work with... so you do what you can.
Then you get the log style header.. In reality its an equal length header, but the constant slamming of all the gases from all 4 cylinders of and engine bank, causes a bunch of turbulence.
Really anything is a vast improvement over the stockers; Long or short. Since there really is a no room on a Mercedes for a 100% true equel length header. I would be more interested in primary size, materials, and collector style.
If the header has a true collector make sure it has a a Cone/pyramid were all 4 primaries merge into one. Kind of like this image I got from google.
08-17-2010, 03:54 AM
#33
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03 e55 amg
Ideally you want a tuned length header, But these engine bays are getting smaller every year. So stuffing a 100% equal length or "tuned header" from a long tube perspective can be very difficult. You have so many things in close proximity that have to be taken into account. Like the way the steering shaft rotates, motor torque movement. When you are done factoring in all aspects that need to be considered... Some trade offs need to be made.
With long tube headers of 55k AMG's, I'm sure you could stuff a 100% equal length header under the car, but I dont think you would be able to turn the steering wheel.
With shorty headers, you now have the issue stuffing all the runners into a small area, so it mates to the cat pipes. This is when you start to see primary tubes spliced into other primary's. will those styles make power? Sure, anything is better than stock.
On The PLM headers, you have 2 primary pipes that are the same size in length. However one primary is spliced into the the other. Its like trying to stuff 10lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag. To me thats not exactly ideal, but you have a limited area to work with... so you do what you can.
Then you get the log style header.. In reality its an equal length header, but the constant slamming of all the gases from all 4 cylinders of and engine bank, causes a bunch of turbulence.
Really anything is a vast improvement over the stockers; Long or short. Since there really is a no room on a Mercedes for a 100% true equel length header. I would be more interested in primary size, materials, and collector style.
If the header has a true collector make sure it has a a Cone/pyramid were all 4 primaries merge into one. Kind of like this image I got from google.
With long tube headers of 55k AMG's, I'm sure you could stuff a 100% equal length header under the car, but I dont think you would be able to turn the steering wheel.
With shorty headers, you now have the issue stuffing all the runners into a small area, so it mates to the cat pipes. This is when you start to see primary tubes spliced into other primary's. will those styles make power? Sure, anything is better than stock.
On The PLM headers, you have 2 primary pipes that are the same size in length. However one primary is spliced into the the other. Its like trying to stuff 10lbs of crap in a 5lbs bag. To me thats not exactly ideal, but you have a limited area to work with... so you do what you can.
Then you get the log style header.. In reality its an equal length header, but the constant slamming of all the gases from all 4 cylinders of and engine bank, causes a bunch of turbulence.
Really anything is a vast improvement over the stockers; Long or short. Since there really is a no room on a Mercedes for a 100% true equel length header. I would be more interested in primary size, materials, and collector style.
If the header has a true collector make sure it has a a Cone/pyramid were all 4 primaries merge into one. Kind of like this image I got from google.
You know how u say your header make 40rwhp or more is that with the Lt's fitted then it will step down from 3inch to join on the stock exhaust and the secondery cats and H pipe will stay in place and no tune or any other mod's to make 40rwhp ?
Also maybe u can show us a pic of under the car with the headers fitted on a e55 or cl55 just so we get an idea where they finish and how its done ?
08-17-2010, 01:11 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
Great info
You know how u say your header make 40rwhp or more is that with the Lt's fitted then it will step down from 3inch to join on the stock exhaust and the secondery cats and H pipe will stay in place and no tune or any other mod's to make 40rwhp ?
Also maybe u can show us a pic of under the car with the headers fitted on a e55 or cl55 just so we get an idea where they finish and how its done ?
You know how u say your header make 40rwhp or more is that with the Lt's fitted then it will step down from 3inch to join on the stock exhaust and the secondery cats and H pipe will stay in place and no tune or any other mod's to make 40rwhp ?
Also maybe u can show us a pic of under the car with the headers fitted on a e55 or cl55 just so we get an idea where they finish and how its done ?
08-17-2010, 01:15 PM
#35
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08-17-2010, 04:44 PM
#36
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e55
But the difference in DA was 2000 (300, to 2300) A far worse day but my car posted better results. Corrected my times are ~ 11.7x@119.x, from a previous 12.0@116 corrected
Id go VRP shorties all the way
08-17-2010, 05:26 PM
#37
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Great info
You know how u say your header make 40rwhp or more is that with the Lt's fitted then it will step down from 3inch to join on the stock exhaust and the secondery cats and H pipe will stay in place and no tune or any other mod's to make 40rwhp ?
Also maybe u can show us a pic of under the car with the headers fitted on a e55 or cl55 just so we get an idea where they finish and how its done ?
You know how u say your header make 40rwhp or more is that with the Lt's fitted then it will step down from 3inch to join on the stock exhaust and the secondery cats and H pipe will stay in place and no tune or any other mod's to make 40rwhp ?
Also maybe u can show us a pic of under the car with the headers fitted on a e55 or cl55 just so we get an idea where they finish and how its done ?
Yes, put the headers on a make 40whp+
08-17-2010, 08:01 PM
#39
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E63 P30, CL500 Sport
Although the VRP manifolds show great success, I'm not so sure they are the best option right now. There was a bad batch produced and sold when they were first introduced into the market. Most of the bad ones were either returned or re-sold, which caused them to float around between owners as used or "re-furbished" sets. Since the company is now dead, support/warranty on the product will be near impossible especially if something arises. In my opinion they are not be the best route to go.
Additionally, as great as some of the VRP manifolds have performed in the past, they still do not outperform a good set of long-tube headers. If one needs to take full advantage of headers (in terms of power), then long-tubes are the way to go. Otherwise, they'll be power left on the table in that area.
Additionally, as great as some of the VRP manifolds have performed in the past, they still do not outperform a good set of long-tube headers. If one needs to take full advantage of headers (in terms of power), then long-tubes are the way to go. Otherwise, they'll be power left on the table in that area.
08-17-2010, 10:31 PM
#41
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03 e55 amg
Don't know why people knock shorty headers. I made 42whp with the PLM before and after within 3 hours. Others have made 30+. I know you have a great product, but they are certainly not the only option when it comes to making power.
For the OP, PLM headers can be had for 2K shipped. PM me and I can connect you with a vendor.
For the OP, PLM headers can be had for 2K shipped. PM me and I can connect you with a vendor.
When u made your 42whp with the plm headers with in 3 hours did u have the 3" mid pipes and secondery cats deleted ?
I emailed vrp about a week ago they said they now make the header from stainless steel and are worth 1800usd now
Last edited by SuperchargerV8; 08-17-2010 at 10:37 PM.
09-25-2010, 05:15 PM
#42
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03 Silver E55
Bump.
Has anybody here seen the eurocharged and MBH headers side by side? I am struggling to understand why there is such a large price difference. Are the designs really that different, and are the alleged gains really that much better with one over the other?
I know this will likely be an ongoing debate of whether one is really better than the other, or if it is just personal preference/amount of coin your willing to dish out.
Thanks
Has anybody here seen the eurocharged and MBH headers side by side? I am struggling to understand why there is such a large price difference. Are the designs really that different, and are the alleged gains really that much better with one over the other?
I know this will likely be an ongoing debate of whether one is really better than the other, or if it is just personal preference/amount of coin your willing to dish out.
Thanks
09-26-2010, 10:56 PM
#43
^ I have not had them side by side but I did have both in my hands this past year. I thought the same as you, how much of a difference could there be? I ordered the EC last year during one of their sales. They were promptly returned. I'll see if I still have some pics. As well, I have first hand knowledge of Kleemann's and Floored fab too.
Last edited by lowprofile; 09-26-2010 at 11:51 PM.
09-26-2010, 11:28 PM
#44
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2008 ML63 2009 SL63 2010 Alpha 7 GTR
^ I have not had them side by side but I did have both in my hands this past year. I thought the same as you, how much of a difference could there be? I ordered the EC last year during one of their sales. The were promptly returned. I'll see if I have still have some pics. As well, I have first hand knowledge of Kleemann's and Floored fab too.
you have a PM
09-27-2010, 10:16 PM
#45
These are few pictures I took before returning the EC long tubes
Pipe misalignment
Multiple welds instead of using longer piping
This is a shot of what all those welds look like on the inside (Sugaring)
Pipe misalignment
Multiple welds instead of using longer piping
This is a shot of what all those welds look like on the inside (Sugaring)
09-27-2010, 10:31 PM
#47
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03 Silver E55
God damn. Well thank you for the pics. I cant believe they would let something like that pass. Its like they had a blind guy with no hands attempt to weld it. I loving the pie cuts, what happened to mandrel bending. Its not titanium.
My decision has been made.
My decision has been made.
09-27-2010, 11:10 PM
#49
Former Vendor of MBWorld
Bump.
Has anybody here seen the eurocharged and MBH headers side by side? I am struggling to understand why there is such a large price difference. Are the designs really that different, and are the alleged gains really that much better with one over the other?
I know this will likely be an ongoing debate of whether one is really better than the other, or if it is just personal preference/amount of coin your willing to dish out.
Thanks
Has anybody here seen the eurocharged and MBH headers side by side? I am struggling to understand why there is such a large price difference. Are the designs really that different, and are the alleged gains really that much better with one over the other?
I know this will likely be an ongoing debate of whether one is really better than the other, or if it is just personal preference/amount of coin your willing to dish out.
Thanks
For example: we are developing long tube headers for the SL63, Its shaping up to be a start from scratch project. This car is requiring 9, 1-D tight radius bends. At $60 per bend for 2 inch pipe. that about $540 just in tight radius stainless bends. We haven't even got into the cost of standard 45's 90's and 180 degree bends needed. Or the cost of flanges etc... It adds up.
My mind set is, "it just has to be the best" I soon as I feel we can't offer the best products and exceptional customer service in the long tube header area. I'd move on. In the past few years, my life has been devoted to headers.
To be 100% honest, I would never take my headers outside the USA to be made. And I would never use a pipe cut into a wedge to compensate for a bend.
Sometimes some things pass my eye, like welding a test pipe mouting bracket backwards
. That incident is still on my mind. But a wedge for a bend would never make it out of the shop. Not in a billion years. In fact if I ever did that I'd refund the money, let them keep the headers... Then I would quit.
09-27-2010, 11:35 PM
#50
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