As a warning to other owners I wanted the local news to run a story. Still in the backlog of emails. As a cover my own butt action I spread the news around with friends, family and neighbors. If we go up, you all know where to point the gun. I also tried to reason with MB USA and make every attempt to show and help them with this problem. MB USA could care less about the problem or the owners. Who knows it may be the current corp car culture in this country. I have no idea. Audi tells its RS6 owners they were lucky the parts were avail for 7 years and you have to pay shipping from Germany on future parts.

If it helps anyone. I have the old fuel level sensor and fuel pump/housing assembly. If you want any pictures or have any questions about the parts. Fire away. If we keep the car I plan to dig into the design and bypass the entire back *** design to run the fuel pressure regulator in the gas tank. The fuel pressure regulator needs to be on the fuel rail at the engine not in the friggin gas tank. Thanks EPA

Car goes in again tomorrow for the intercooler coolant pump. Another trip into the dealer. 4k miles on the car this year and 4 trips to the dealer.

 

Wow...big problem to watch for for would-be W211 E55 buyers. Thanks for the heads-up, and dedication to resolving the issue.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DfOEBjGg8c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_gNp...layer_embedded

 

That fire prompted a recall in the summer of 2007 for CLs. The ABC high pressure hose would corrode internally (from high humidity like in Virginia where that occurred.) The hydraulic fluid would then leak onto the cat and other hot components and lead to a fire.

The recall began July 2007 (when that video was made) and the "fix" was to replace the factory hose with a corrosion resistant one.

Not sure how many CLs ever burned up, but this one was enough obviously.

 

Since the EPA mandated returnless fuel systems in 2004, it looks like we're stuck with them. Can a ERF system in a MB really be changed over to a return line system? I'm curious. Since OBDII monitors EVAP, what happens when the EVAP releases more emissions and the ECU senses it and sends out codes? Or can that be dealt with simply by having the right filter and regulator, etc., all working, if it's outside the tank? What about the tank heating, etc.. and possible emissions release?

What's interesting is that Chrysler went all ERF back in '98. Maybe MB simply took the design, made it fit, and just tossed all that crap down into the tank? LOL.

Other than being able to regulate pressure with a return line system, what's the advantage of not staying ERF? Depending on the injectors and the pressure, it can handle enough hp. It seems the deal here is simply the design of the sender units. I haven't pulled mine (E63) yet, but the part numbers are different. It seems that the 'answer' would be to make sure the units don't leak by figuring out better sealing(?)

As I mentioned before, the E36 BMWs were returnless. And they had the exact same issues with leaking (under the rear seat, etc..) The big thing was always to NOT overfill the tank. I think the units (there were two just like in the E55s) were also VDO, iirc. They look close in appearance (see the pics, first one is MB, second is BMW.) A bad design that was changed later.

Another thing is that since this is theoretically part of the emissions system it all really should be warrantied for the 80k or whatever emissions system stuff is warrantied for..... I'd b*tch about that.

 

There is a thread here showing a high hp E55 owner that did just that. Let me search for it again.

I would think there is a point where fuel volume would begin to decrease with high demands from the engine say at high speeds. That is why the above owner went with the new fuel feed and return line. The ERF may work in a 120hp Toyota Corolla but trying to feed a 500hp monster is just plain crazy. The constant pressure needed to maintain line pressure all the way up the engine must create a huge stress on all the components.

Do these Jeeps with the gas tank fires have the ERF? If Chrysler went ERF in 98, did the Viper have a fuel return line?

The main advantage of a return line system is the lack of stress on all the line components. Fuel can flow free without running into a brick wall and the pressure regulator at the engine keeps the fuel flowing at a constant pressure. Thus the injectors can each take what they need and as boost increases the fuel pressure regulator can quickly raise that line pressure and fuel keeps flowing thru.

I would venture to guess that every race car in most every racing situation still uses the same design. Return line system and fuel pressure regulator at the engine.

If the units are warping leading to the gasket failure? What can be done? A owner here says he used 2 gaskets? I would like to see how two can be fit in there. I inspected the old parts and both level sensors/fuel pump baskets. Made in Germany.

 

It's absolutely true that there's no performance advantage of returnless since it's only about emissions mandates. Plus a return system is much cheaper to install and maintain, tune, and more reliable, etc..

But maybe the cheaper to install part is only if you're starting from scratch, imho. If you aren't then maybe it would make more sense to rebuild the returnless with better components(?) High pressure can be maintained using larger lb/hr injectors, high flow rails, programmable FMUs, etc.. There's a lot of really good stuff out on the market now for returnless systems (since we're kinda stuck with them now.) I'd like to see pics of a MB that's reverted back to a return. Where do you put the pump, regulator, etc., and keep fuel cool, etc.. But it seems all this is only to address a leaking in tank sending unit. That's really the only weak spot, right?

Modern performance cars have to comply and still have power, it's all a matter of cost. The E55 and with its system was in the game early during the mandate period and so, like you've said before, they no doubt whipped together the pump/regulator/filter unit in a rush.

fwiw, a lot of high performance cars use competition returnless systems that can handle upwards of 1200 hp. The Cobra and Viper owners seem to be changing out stock components to better ones to handle boost (but remaining returnless.) Higher pressure rails and bigger injectors can eliminate any pressure loss that might happen esp at higher rpms, equal pressure to all injectors, etc..

In the end, it's all about the money. How much does one want and need to spend. In the case of the E55, the OEM system seems to work under high pressure and seems to be able to handle the boost. Although it would interesting to track any pressure drops at higher rpms or if any A/F issues are happening(?) since returnless is so sensitive to pressure changes.

But again, I personally wouldn't rip it all out but instead maybe try to go for better components (if available and will fit.) Plus there's the issues of violating emissions with a conversion, and the dealer not wanting to ever touch the car, etc..

With these stock systems just check pressure at the rail (is it really holding pressure at rpm?) and use Techron (since it's a dead end system and contaminants can be an issue.) And somehow deal with those sending units so they don't leak. I think that's about all one can really do(?) I suppose the only "positive" thing is they built it so you don't have to drop the tank to fix anything, except instead you get leakage in that access space. Maybe just completely seal it off and hope the pump units themselves never fail.

The E55 was an earlier endeavor that was caught in between a time of new EPA mandates. It was an existing MB motor with a SC attached. Now that AMG is building their own motors, these issues should be behind us. The new 5.5 TT will have a returnless system that will be built for appropriate high pressure, plus hopefully Renntech/Kleemann, etc., will develop aftermarket components (rails, injectors, etc..) Although I know that doesn't help current E55 owners right now.

 

To close the book on the intercooler pump failure. Funny story actually. I called the MB dealer in Phoenix...talked to parts first. They dont stock the intercooler pump. "we hardly replace those" I asked if any of the other Phx dealers stock it. "nope" Then talked to my SA and told him the story and my data logs with 195 degree IAT temps. He said ok and would get the part ordered to save a trip.

They check the car today and yes the IC pump is dead. New pump and +10 cooling fan update completed and I reset the ECU tonight. Welcome back 150hp. IATs are running a solid 115 degrees and the cooling fans are screaming like crazy in this 107 heat. My wife gets her car back tomorrow running as it should.

I find it odd that all the MB dealers in Phx dont stock this pump. I wonder how many 55k owners are running around with dead IC pumps and no supercharger boost? SA was even surprised that it actually turned out to be the IC pump. Who knows, ran some scans on the car and A/F was holding strong up thru 4th gear and high loads. Good enough for now.

 

Replacing the IC pump is probably one of the most common threads here. People tend to replace with the Johnson or Meziere pumps (unless you're under warranty.) iirc, the OEM Bosch pump was upgraded later and is much better then the early ones.

 

Sure I agree that the IC pump is well covered on this forum. But, how many 55k owners actually spend time on amg forums? 10-15% As the pump fails it gives no notice but a general loss of performance and the ecu learns the new hot IAT and cuts back to compensate. What percentage of amg owner will notice that change over time? With a completely dead pump and 195° intake temps and more the ecu will not set a fault code. Not the best design.

Most of these 55k's are still under warranty or have extended warranty which is the only reason I took back the car. I would have just installed the Johnson if the money were coming out of my pocket. So I think many of these failures are going missed by the dealer and owners. I dont think any of MB dealers in Phx are really checking for this failure and many 55k owners are just running around N/A. That said, once the car is fixed I think every owner will report with positive reactions. After driving the car my wife reports her car is running great and what a difference. So our car is performing well at this point and I will keep a monitor on the gas tank situation. I really just wanted to document the after repair and also document that at stock running tune the A/F ratio seems to hold very well at wot, higher gear and high loads. The engine is safe and getting plenty of fuel to keep it happy.

 

I just opened up the fuel sender plate area located under the back passenger seat and noticed it indeed had some gas puddled up. There is evidence of leaking. I have no clue how to fix this. or does the whole unit need to be replaced? Any suggestions? Again I smell gas inside the car after I fill her up at the gas station, but this happens only on some occasions.

 

Oh clearly this is a old problem. Nothing to see here folks. Dont listen to the crazy guy with the fuel paranoia.

I get it....enjoy the show.

 

On the other hand, you could have answered by helping the guy

Lybones, do a search here on MBWorld and you'll get lots of info. But it would be helpful if you can take your VIN down to your dealer and have them run a VMI. This will show if you had the recall done already. If it had been done, then you need to tell the dealer it's still leaking. Also check the part number on the unit done under recall (if it's been done) and the part that's currently in the car. That will help others here, too.

In the meantime be careful to never overfill the tank (stop when the pump clicks off on its own.)

 

I already PM'ed the member with the information he needs. Thanks

Also, if you fill the car up to the first click on the gas pump. You are already too full and the seal will be leaking out. I dont know if I would be spreading that info.

Dont worry folks, just fill your E55s up to 3/4 and you may never have this problem. sarcasm/kinda funny Mercedes owners with E55s need to worry about simply filling up the car.

 

Wow, that smell drives me nuts! I did a temp repair on Monday and checked it today and no leak, but still smells very strong. Btw it's not my car it's a friend of mine known as (moosejaw) on here.

 

You are going to view people throwing their cigarettes out of their window in a whole new light.

 

?? Did I miss something here. I sense some "arm chair bravado" happening on this thread.??

 

I can't recall if the fix has been done. I'll make a visit to the dealer some time this week. Thanks for the tip.

 

The sarcasm was directed to the members that decided to make personal attacks in my direction (snail45 and mikey)because I was the one to cry foul on this fuel system matter. I dont normally post on this forum but the design fault was serious enough to prompt me to post the information. The folks can make all the personal attacks they want but the thread is here as a resource for the time when these cars do start fire bombs.

I did send you a PM to follow up and provide any information that I have including the contact at MB USA.

My wife actually had some good input on why no E55s have blown up yet. Could it be the owners are smart enough to realize they have a fuel leak and dangerous condition and seek repairs asap. Yep

 

BTW,

220S...here is the thread where the MBWorld member installed the new fuel system.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...el-system.html

 

Ouch, it looks like this gas tank let go.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-495679?hpt=Sbin

 

Come on. Geez. You sound like a little kid now. Your initial post was informative but why do this?

That's an S-Class with an obvious engine fire.

"This gas tank let go" yeah, okay.

 

My seal has failed again... It's only been 2 months... Anyone have any other methods of repairing this? How can 2 seals fit? Please pm me any solutions that can help avoid another trip to the dealer

 

obvious engine fire? Your the expert now.

Since I sound like a little kid you can lead the class now.

I dont know the source of the fire on this late model S class. I was sent this link from a friend in So Cal. I can only see the whole car including the gas tank lit up. I dont know where it started nor did I attempt to guess where it started.

But, should this late model S class be going up in flames just driving down the freeway? Just food for thought.

 

BUT you said "Ouch, it looks like this gas tank let go" SO how does this fire even pertain to an 03-06 E Class and how did you deduce the feul tank let go Shelock?