K-A

Definitely not my style, or something that I'd want to own as a primary car, but it has its moments....

Also, the CTS's are just too focused on "sharp/modern/art" design, and don't mix in too many other elements. They tend to date VERY fast.

06E55

Good god, the coupe is even uglier than the sedan!!! I don't care about dyno numbers or cost! It's "insanity" alright to purchase anything made by GM!

Quadcammer

gm makes a fine car, anybody who says other wise is making stupid generalizations.

A 211 E-Class isn't exactly the bastion of quality...hell the E55s are probably the single biggest reason that Chrysler warranties are no longer available for mb.

06E55

Stupid generalizations? I think not. Any GM product I have ever owned (and I have owned quite a few of them) have been the biggest POSs I have personally owned! Everything from blown engines to transmission failures to just plain ****ty interiors! I have only had to have warranty work to my 06 E55 one time for an airmatic failure! We have had absolutely no problems with my wife's 09 C300. I have had brand new GMs in the shop within months of purchasing them for MAJOR mechanical failures/problems.

In my experience, GM is NOT a fine car and compared to the GMs I have owned, the Benzes that I currently own are certainly the citadel compared to GM. And speaking of citadel, does using words like bastion make you feel smarter?

Mantooth

Ew.

The sedans looks much, much better, IMO.

Quadcammer

your generalization is based on an anecdote. Just like if I had a few lemon MBs I would think they were crappy. Quality studies don't agree with you.

VCA_AMG

As Jeremy Clarkson said, the CTS-V "seems designed by someone who only had a ruler."

Rock

I am not sure that is accurate. Cadillac is still below the industry average.

I find it funny that people support GM when just a few months ago GM decided to "start fresh" and were given the opportunity to forget the individuals and companies they owed money to. If they are doing so well now, why don't they pay back everyone they stiffed?

06E55

I don't give a crap if you or quality studies agree with me. In my opinion, GM vehicles are pieces of crap! Understand!?! Just like your opinions, my opinions are based on my experiences! I don't need some quality index survey to justify my opinion. If I had previously owned three MBs that had the problems I had with the three GMs that I had, I would think they (MBs) were crap as well, regardless of what the freaking studies said! And what's so freaking amusing about my story? You enjoy hearing about other's misfortune?

Quadcammer

even in 2006, MB was there, and worse:



As you can see, overall quality has increased for all cars.

Even still at 110 problems per 100 vehicles, thats 1.1 problems per vehicle whereas MB has .87 problems per vehicle. How big is that difference really?

pearlpower

Your a hypocrite and an obvious supporter of social bailout welfare programs.

Based on what you posted above, EVERY GM vehicle is BELOW the industry average. What part of that do you have difficulty understanding. Sell your S class, go buy a Chebby. I'm sure there is some sort of welfare bailout program that will allow you to get one for a dime. Then drop to your knees and thank your God Obama for what he has done for you and your children.

Dealership experience is even worse.

Also keep in mind that there is a significant different between quality and reliability. GM products have always including recent models been subject to complaints of poor quality components. Period. So we have poor reliability and quality.

06E55

And if GM made "a fine car," why did they go bankrupt? I guess it was pretty easy for GM to rise to number one, after all, we destroyed all their foreign competition (literally). Looks like it didn't last long though! I really wish the government hadn't stepped in and saved GM! I doubt the government would step in and save my business! Why does it get a break!?! And just so you know, Oliverk, I disliked GM prior to the bailout. And I have seen many poor examples of GM vehicles besides the GM vehicles I personally owned. My father had been a loyal supporter of GM vehicles for years; however, after a blown engine in a brand new GMC super-duty pickup, a Vortec V10, and several other problems with other brand new GM products my father also vowed never to own another GM product again!

K-A

I feel that lots of people give GM waay too much blinded un-deserving credit, and lots of people give them (especially some of their newer models, given what they are and what their intended for) too little credit.

However, I will say that, it's a pretty big deal if M-B, a Luxury maker, who's engineering, tech, etc. are vastly advanced from a GM product (i.e, are expected to maybe have some more hiccups here or there) is rating better on a reliability scale/chart.

I bought a GM for what I assumed and hoped would be supreme reliability and durability. And I bought one of the "good" ones, i.e a newer model, with solid ratings. No gadgets to really go wrong, just most of the necessities I need.

I needed a car that I can drive about 1500+ miles a month (long distance work trips), park outside, give no extra attention to, and something that would always be there for me.

I would have never trusted my W211 with such a task (nor did I want to, as I want to keep my nice car nice), as things would eventually sneak up, and it'd cost more to maintain, etc.

My Malibu was bought as 20K Miles, and was a prior Rental Car, so obviously knew durability. In the 20+K I put on it in about a year, I had no problems aside from a few little issues here or there (nothing major at all, and got taken care of under Warranty). And it's only "told" me it needed one Service so far (about due to the next one).

My W211, in the 2 years I owned it, of supremely pampered 10K miles (only), it had quite a few little issue's, and cost me over $1K in Service requirements (got ripped at the Dealer). Not to mention, it had lots of issues before I bought it (all taken care of under Warranty).

My W212 is brand new, so I can't offer anything hard-anecdotal on that, but it'll be pampered to for the time I own it probably as well. So far, so good, aside from a glitchy window sometimes.

Rock

Exactly!!! Thousands and thousands of small businesses go under every year and our government does nothing for them.

What most people don't know is that the price of the new GM offering will have to ascend to about $140/share before the existing share holders (tax payers) can break even.......... and this does not even begin to address GM's former debt.

I wish I could veiw the whole GM debacle differently but it just reeks of bad business and injustice.

06E55

My experience is exactly opposite of this! I can only mention up until 1996, which was the last GM I owned and it was brand new. The quality was extremely poor. It literally look like the assembly line was a few inches off to the left that day, as the interior of the car had major fitment issues on the left side (and the interior was cheap enough as it was)! I had it a whole three days before I had to take it to the dealer for MAJOR repairs (engine and electronics). I ended up having almost all of the wiring under the hood replaced a few months after that, as I went to start it one day, it started and then immediately shut down. It would do this repeatedly. Turned out to be some small wire grounding out somewhere. It continued to give me problems although I maintained the car with oil changes every 3K (I was in DC at the time with a lot of stop-and-go traffic), transmission service, clutch replaced, transmission replaced (in a manual nonetheless) at 25,000, etc. Luckily, it got totaled (while parked) by a drunk driver so I couldn't continue the legacy of my issues with this car. My father had a Chevy S10 with the Vortec V6 that blew a piston rod at 15,000 miles. That truck continued to have problems after that as well. I had other GM products prior to the 1996 that I referred to above that had numerous problems.

In regards to my 06 E55, I do the normal (and not so normal) maintenance myself (oil changes every 10k, supercharge belt every 10k [they are cheap enough and I am under the hood anyway], air filters every 10k [again, cheap and easy], and transmission fluid every 40k [done once so far]). The only issues I have had with my car was an airmatic failure and a left turn signal lamp replaced. That's it. My car has given me zero other problems. My wife's 09 C300 is exactly the same. Zero warranty repairs and zero problems. Of course, I am not counting the occasional tire service for running over a nail, because this isn't the car's fault...

It seems like every GM I have had has had problems. Thus my opinion. I am not saying that MB is the pinnacle of luxury and reliability. I know that they are not. I think they get a bad rap because when something does go wrong, it is expensive to repair. Plus people assume that because they spend 100k on a vehicle, it should be 100% reliable. This simply is not the case...

The GM bailout is whole other issue that doesn't sway my opinion in regards to their products. As Rock mentioned, their stock has to rise to $137 per share before we, the tax payers and shareholders of the company, break even. This is ludicrous! I understand that tens of thousands of people would have lost their jobs (I am sure the ultimate extent would not be realized for a long time, as part suppliers, etc. would ultimately go out of business as well); however, that is the cost of a capitalistic society! Our government had absolutely no right to purchase a PUBLIC company! Businesses fail every day! This teaches nothing only that if you are a big company, the government will bail you out! Whose next? Ford? Chrysler?

Fly by night

The Cts-V is fast no doubt but my gosh is it ever UGLY.

rondocap

Sure, cars like this CTS-V coupe don't have the same panache and charm as something like an AMG, but I for one at least appreciate that they are at least putting out performance cars like these to compete with other cars. The more everyone pushes, the better cars will be in the future. Look at the horsepower wars that happened a few years ago between BMW, Audi, and Mercedes. Today it is a bit more relaxed, but a lot of progress was made in between then and now. Hopefully even these GM cars will improve in the future, that way everyone else is forced to stay on a higher standard.

Quadcammer

grammar corrected.

As for me being a hypocrite, could you explain why?

I don't support social welfare problems whatsoever. I don't think what happened with GM was right, but I do believe that it was at least somewhat necessary.

Furthermore, yes, all of GM's brands are below the industry average. That said, the difference between first and dead last is barely over 1 problem per vehicle. While this is not the end all be all of vehicular quality, I'd say GM is building fine cars, along with Ford, Mercedes, etc. In actuality, its hard to buy a "bad" car today.

Poor quality components you say? Ever look at the dash of a new 212 e class? I haven't seen plastic that hard since the 1989 cavalier.

I don't support Obama at all, btw.

Quadcammer

GM produced and sold more cars each year than every other manufacturer for many years. They produced vehicles that people wanted to buy. Unfortunately, their per vehicle historical costs were very high, and they could therefore not price their vehicles competitively and still make a profit.

Whether GM got bailed out or not does not affect my perception of them making a fine car. I didn't say it was the highest quality or most reliable, but rather that they were "fine".

Consider how many millions of vehicles GM produces each year. Then add up the number of crappy GM vehicles that you or anyone you know has had.

If the crappy vehicles add up to more than 1 basis point of GM's sales in ONE year, I'll eat my hat.

97W202

just had my first encounter with one of these beast.. I must say that front bumper is MEAN

Quadcammer

These small businesses don't employ several hundred thousand people nor do entire suppliers essentially rely on their survival. Like I said, I don't think it was right, but it was somewhat necessary unless Obama wanted to make some very politically unpopular decisions.

Gm's former debt. You took a chance on that debt. You lost that bet, and are a creditor. If you thought GM sucked so bad, why did you buy the paper?

Quadcammer

You are basing your opinion of GM on cars purchased over 14 years ago?

Might be time to give them another look to see if anything has changed.

06E55

No, I said that was the last time I purchased one of their vehicles. I never said I am basing my opinion solely on those examples. I have many friends that have GM products and ride in them frequently. Trust me, my opinions about them haven't swayed at all! In fact, a friend had a Tahoe that had less than 5,000 miles on it before he ditched it and bought a Honda Pilot due to all of the problems it had. You don't get what I am saying. I don't care about your facts about problems per 1 million vehicles. In MY opinion, GM does not make a fine product! No stats will change my opinion! I would rather drive around in a 1990 rusty Honda Civic than a 2010/2011 (whatever the current year cycle for Cadillac is) Cadillac CTS-V!!!! A friend has a brand new ZR1 and I think it is crap as well! Will it beat my E55, we all know that it will! But trust me, I would much rather have my 06 E55 than a 2010 ZR1! That thing has had three warranty repairs in a year of ownership!

And I don't care if other businesses relied on GM or not, the bailout is a fiasco! It will prove to be one of the stupidest decisions Obama every made in his 4-year term as President!!!

way2evil

I gave them a second chance and they failed miserably.

K-A

Here's how I see it.

If you're gonna buy something "cheap", for economical purposes, a simple car that is used in Rental Fleets (proving that at least lots are abused, and driven tons, and work well), then a new GM model could be a best buy.

If you're gonna spend "lots" of money on a car, and are looking for Luxuries, refinement, attention to detail, and an overall premium experience, then stay away. High priced GM's wear some of the most inflated price tags out there, considering what you get ALL AROUND (they always do one or two things very well it seems).