chawkins2001

These last few comments made today are just damn childish. If You found similar injectors and have the means to modify your own rail, good for you. Go ahead and do it, tell your forum bros via phone or pm. Why would you come into a vendors thread and down play the product. It hurts the vendor and really does not make you look like a hero. This is there livelyhood , not like most of us who cinema on here to share interests and passions.

If TTM had not come out with the kit, odds are we would only have bigger squirrters and still could have major issues with # 8.

chawkins2001

Damn Droid phone, yes I have the kit on my car and it works. I make monsterous power and run one of the fastest e55's in the country at that. I am not endorsed by TTM nor am I their spokesman on MBWorld as I push my local shop here in Atlanta. However credit must be given where it us due, and that is TTM has a stout fuel kit at a competitive price that works. It is very tacky to come into a vendors thread and act like some of you did.

pearlpower

Different ways to skin a cat. The above solutions would work well, however not many have the time, ability, etc to fabricate their own kit. And a business is expected to make a profit in order for it to continue to support the forum as well as bring additional new items to the table. Guess the bottom line is, don't like the price, make your own with the risks. Otherwise put out and buy a proven kit. Democracy at it's best.

SuperchargerV8

If your only mods are headers and mid section of the exhaust,k&n filters and tune by adding the new rail and injectors and then re tuning the car will it make any differents to power ?

any hp gains

nanayaw6

I doubt it would really be much of a power gain if any but remember the goal is to be safer and more consistent as far as fuel delivery goes. Plus then you always know you can confidently step up the pulley size cos you've got the fuel on deck.

Hotrod-Realtor

Plus one!

I bet there are a bunch of folks on this site that wished they had paid TTM's asking price and possibly avoided smoking an engine.
What's next, buy the kit and send it off to China to duplicate?
If TTM makes $500 a kit times 25 kits, they have made $12,500. I'm guessing they haven't broken even for all the time they've spent working on figuring all of this out and providing the rest of us with the results of all their hard work. And now criticized for rape.

xpl0sive

it would be reasonable if they were making $500 a kit, but as per the posts above, the same thing can be accomplished for around $500-$600. TTM sells their kits for $1600. $1000 profit, if that's not mercedes tax, i dunno what is

e55amgrocket

The point is a 275% markup is ridiculous. Nobody is saying it dosent work because it does. 99% of high performance fuel rails are looped to equalize pressure and give consistent fueling. All were saying is don't rape everyone and give false information like the research on injectors and "closest thing to direct injection you can get". These injectors are like every other fuel injector they just have a wider spray pattern and 6 holes instead of 4. Direct injection is a whole nother animal completely. If people want to spend $1600 were not stopping them.

motorkas

I like Bruce, think TTM has good products (can't wait to get the scoops when they become available again). . .Totally agree with Chawkins. . .should of been put in another thread, not in the Vendors, especially one that has a proven track record of giving time and advise FREE of charge to anybody who asks. . .

That being said - free country (yours too). . .but, I will say this. . .the costs of such devices are dramatically elevated in testing, not manufacturing - the reason some go with Kleemann and Renntech is not because they can't find it cheaper, but the piece of mind that it's been trouble shot. From what I read - his fuel rail was developed, not made. . .big difference.

e55amgrocket

Developed? I can say I developed the injectors I found but we all know I didn't. When I did my upgrades and injectors Dec 2010 my buddy that builds race cars said we should loop the fuel rail and this was his first time seeing one. Develop is strong word in my opinion. Maybe if a complete new fuel rail was made that would be developing something. This rail is modified and nothing more. I went the extra mile to send a rail to CPR to see what it would take to make a custom billet rail for more flow(thinking about E85 now). Still waiting to hear back

Das Geld 2

What's your point? Even if it's R&D costs, it gets the job done that's all that matters.

Look at the Kleeman Supercharger for the N/A M113 it cost 15k..the parts are like $700. The Weistec build is not far from that too.

All that matters is that someone made it and someone is willing to pay, everything else is irrelvant. If you want to make a better design and market it be my guest. As it stands TTM is the only one who did it, so he can set the price as high as he wants.

$1600 for a highly modded engine with 10-15k in parts is a piece of mind. If you can't afford to pay to play, then go home.

It's none of your business to even guess or assume the profit margins. Go enjoy your Canadian healthcare.

xpl0sive

lol what does me living in canada have to do with anything? or could you not come up with something more intelligent to insult me with? we are in a free market world and are free to develop products as we see fit. like you say, if there are people willing to pay $1600 for something worth $600, great for TTM. all i'm saying is that i'd rather come up with the rail on my own and put that $1000 in savings towards other performance parts

320 dreamer

i think that says it all. you couldnt come up with the rail and injectors on your own. you waited until someone else thought about it, built it, tested it then produced it and you simply want to steal their idea. what other performance parts do you intend to steal with your 1000$ savings?

xpl0sive

i don't think modifying stock parts to perform better is considered stealing. if i bought the TTM rail, sent it to china, had it replicated EXACTLY and then sold it at a lower cost, that would be considered stealing. i'm simply taking an idea that has been used on other platforms for DECADES and making it work

320 dreamer

so you did this before the ttm rail was put out on the forums for all to see? or did you read about it and decide to copy it . same as stealing the idea. paint it any way you want the only thing you are acomplishing is driving a valued vendor away and keeping any future mods from being developed.

tbal

Agree.

TTM has solid products including their fuel rail and injectors... If you dont want to blow up your motor, definitely give them a call!

Now if somebody has found things at a better price, and found a way to modify the fuel rail, and is comfortable in doing so.. LET IT BE! How the **** is that stealing??? Some of you need to calm down...

RedBullJnky

desired_speeds

That's great! Good for you that you can get your own fuel rail made. Now get the hell out of this thread because you've steered an informative thread into the ****ter.

e500slr

Considering the costs of modding a 63 I think that the 55 is cheap to mod. Considering the quality of these injectors and fuel rails and their customer service it's not irrational or stealing at all. I actually think the 55 is DIRT cheap to mod when you look at the 63. You can build a monster 55 with the money you would pay for a full exhaust in a 63.

motorkas

Strong word from the stand point of there not being a team of engineers with a blank sheet creating something from scratch. . .agreed; not necessarily from the standpoint that the other thread, from the other forum is discussing in-depth the reverse engineering of such a "simple solution". . .I understand the whole injector argument but it appears that it wasn't as simple as "oh I think these injectors will work so let me plug them into a 30,000.00 dollar engine and see what happens". . .Hell, the fact that it’s a really good idea to “re-tune” the car after installation speaks volumes to me. The fact that you did this in conjunction with a friend, that just so happens to build race cars, is not something that everybody has access to, nor is as easy as 1. . .2. . .3. . .you guys make it sound so easy - just fabricate this, add these injectors - voila - solution to an intergral part of your car that has been proven to pop engines. . .

Developed from the standpoint of identifying a problem, postulating a solution, testing what different components make up that solution - providing to the public. . .If Bruce didn’t provide the roadmap - why the in-depth discussion on the other board about what he did, how he did it, what parts did he use and more importantly. . .how can I replicate it. Stealing, not stealing. . .meh. . .but you did use his work to help you with your endeavors and rather than thanking him, you basically called him a cheat.

e55amgrocket

Im not calling him a cheat at all. I'm just saying that some of us believe the price isnt justified in OUR eyes. I understand most people dont have friends that build pro-mods and heads up drag cars. Bruce paved the path by doing it first yes and im not taking anything away from him at all because he did what most people were afraid of trying. The ONLY reason i even had my friend do the rail in the first place was because i was IGNORED by Bruce a few times when i asked to just by the rail so i could use my own injectors. We were going to modify the rail last year but i didnt see it as live or die situation with the small amount of mods i was doing at the time and already going to larger injectors. I was planning on letting Bruce do the head job and modify my 80mm housing for my 82mm throttle body on my car late this month/early February but i dont like being ignored when i was willing to over pay for something to begin with. Then after doing the rail and seeing what the actual cost was i was blown away. Ive always been one to keep quiet and get things done on my own but i also believe in right and wrong. Im not stopping anyone from paying for his kit nor am i saying his kit dosent work because it does. I think if the kit was priced better he would sell way more kits,get way more future customers and would make more money that way in the end, that's just my opinion. I also think its kind of odd that the one person missing from this post is Bruce himself

e55amgrocket

On a side note. To me things that are "developed" for these cars are things like the PTE cams that are made from TONS of hours of research and testing, The various lowering modules, the many different headers that have made made from scratch, the new crank pulley/supercharger pulley, new custom air intakes. I believe modifying and developing are 2 WAY different things.

GregMB

I am curious to hear your assessment of the pricing on the following item:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180781413840...#ht_500wt_1413


Is this worth the $2000 asking price, or is this another example of a vendor charging the "Mercedes Tax"?



-G

urbamworm

That is rape! lol. Some poor guy with a pocket full of money may come across that on ebay and buy it though. Aren't they selling that for like $1250 on the other forum after getting in trouble for showing it here? I thought stuff was cheaper on ebay!!!!

Hadi is making out like a bandit on that thing unless he is getting raped by the welder he is using to weld those 45s together. That piping you can get cheap on ebay (probably around $150 for all the 45s needed and the 2 couplers and another $140 for filters and the silicone 90s up front?). And the welding shop where I just made my engine compartment coolant tank we could bang that thing out pretty quick so even if paying $100/hr welding fee that is like 3 hours work for cutting and welding ($590 for parts and labor).

e55amgrocket

I dont know what the actual cost to make the intake is so i cant judge that and i believe he sold them cheaper on another forum.The new needs wings intake is $1000 and dosent look as good as this in my opinion. I do know the cost of making a fuel rail though