For anyone who has had there pulleys come off...
#101
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 923
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2006 E55 AMG --old cars -- E39 M5, 2.7tt Audi S4, E36 M3 **Ducati 996, 748
oh my bad -- I say just keep running it and dont be too worried --- Just check it visually every once in a while -- I wouldnt touch it too much.
Good job
Good job
#104
MBWorld Fanatic!
Gentlemen, there is no better part quality or better engineering. They simply select parts that are better able to cope with higher power or performance. That doesn't make it better, it simply makes it different.
For example, lets say MB specs one piston for an AMG that is forged (not that they are, but its a hypothetical). It can withstand more power than the hyper piston in the standard car, but you get piston slap when cold. The standard piston is dead quiet at all times, and is perfectly fine for the power level.
Which piston is better engineered or higher quality? Neither, they are two parts that serve two distinct needs.
Hand built by a single tech means nothing. I'd rather have a machine assemble my engine every day of the week. People make mistakes all the time. Do you want to be the guy who gets Hans' engine after he had a fight with his wife, or had a few beers at lunch, or has a cold, etc etc.
Quite frankly sir, you may want to inform yourself further.
Just about every single vehicle manufactured today has hypereutectic piston...unless you have a credible source who says they are "regular cast", its pretty clear that they are hyper pistons. Furthermore, hyper pistons are great for one thing...they are quiet as **** because they don't expand nearly as much as standard pistons. But hyper pistons are also very brittle. A few seconds of detonation will hole a hyper piston like nobodies business. The question is, why aren't the AMG's forged.
Now...This is a description of the M113, not the M113k:
At the heart of the engine is a forged steel crankshaft, which is bolted to a pressure cast aluminum block. The crankshaft has the standard V8 five main bearings. The two end caps are four bolt mains, while the center three have six bolt caps. Hollow, forged steel connecting rods are bolted to the crankshaft. Aluminum pistons top off the rods, while a lightweight aluminum oil pan buttons up the bottom end.
http://www.marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/engd.html
So, now would you care to recant?
For example, lets say MB specs one piston for an AMG that is forged (not that they are, but its a hypothetical). It can withstand more power than the hyper piston in the standard car, but you get piston slap when cold. The standard piston is dead quiet at all times, and is perfectly fine for the power level.
Which piston is better engineered or higher quality? Neither, they are two parts that serve two distinct needs.
Hand built by a single tech means nothing. I'd rather have a machine assemble my engine every day of the week. People make mistakes all the time. Do you want to be the guy who gets Hans' engine after he had a fight with his wife, or had a few beers at lunch, or has a cold, etc etc.
Quite frankly sir, you may want to inform yourself further.
Just about every single vehicle manufactured today has hypereutectic piston...unless you have a credible source who says they are "regular cast", its pretty clear that they are hyper pistons. Furthermore, hyper pistons are great for one thing...they are quiet as **** because they don't expand nearly as much as standard pistons. But hyper pistons are also very brittle. A few seconds of detonation will hole a hyper piston like nobodies business. The question is, why aren't the AMG's forged.
Now...This is a description of the M113, not the M113k:
At the heart of the engine is a forged steel crankshaft, which is bolted to a pressure cast aluminum block. The crankshaft has the standard V8 five main bearings. The two end caps are four bolt mains, while the center three have six bolt caps. Hollow, forged steel connecting rods are bolted to the crankshaft. Aluminum pistons top off the rods, while a lightweight aluminum oil pan buttons up the bottom end.
http://www.marcusfitzhugh.com/CLK/engd.html
So, now would you care to recant?
I like how you assert you point of view based on semantics and your own high opinion of your knowledge.
Materials selection is a fundamental aspect of mechanical or structural engineering. Engineers selected better materials or production processes to create better or "different" parts as you call them. Engineers then decided on the use of those "different" parts for the purposes of higher performance use in an engine systems based on the fit of the mechanical propeties of those parts for their intended purpose.....Nope thats not better engineering..thats just because they wanted to be "different"
I am happy you feel a machine built engine would be better, but seems GM( all Z06 and ZR1 engines), AMG, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and every major race series and team in the world relies on the skill of a highly trained engine builder to produce the best built, highest performing engines possible. Yep, again, no engineering there, just being different again.
Thanks for your internet search on the M113. Good to know they are built with pretty high quality materials and high strength design. That doesn't mean AMG's aren't built with better parts or with better processes.
If AMG's are no better than any other Mercedes, just different as you claim, why did Mercedes feel the need to purchase AMG(who was a seperate company) and make them a wholy owned subsidery? Why do AMG's get made in a specialized factory by highly trained resources?
Yep, ML350 Benz's made on an Alabama assembly line are the same as hand built AMG's in Afalterbach....Neither one is better...they are just "different"....Like you...
I think I get what your saying, but My view is that using better fit for purpose materials/part, in more detailed and controlled processes by people with more skill makes something better engineered.
Last edited by KLR CLS; 03-31-2011 at 10:47 AM.
#105
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
I like how you assert you point of view based on semantics and your own high opinion of your knowledge.
Materials selection is a fundamental aspect of mechanical or structural engineering. Engineers selected better materials or production processes to create better or "different" parts as you call them. Engineers then decided on the use of those "different" parts for the purposes of higher performance use in an engine systems based on the fit of the mechanical propeties of those parts for their intended purpose.....Nope thats not better engineering..thats just because they wanted to be "different"
I am happy you feel a machine built engine would be better, but seems GM( all Z06 and ZR1 engines), AMG, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and every major race series and team in the world relies on the skill of a highly trained engine builder to produce the best built, highest performing engines possible. Yep, again, no engineering there, just being different again.
Thanks for your internet search on the M113. Good to know they are built with pretty high quality materials and high strength design. That doesn't mean AMG's aren't built with better parts or with better processes.
If AMG's are no better than any other Mercedes, just different as you claim, why did Mercedes feel the need to purchase AMG(who was a seperate company) and make them a wholy owned subsidery? Why do AMG's get made in a specialized factory by highly trained resources?
Yep, ML350 Benz's made on an Alabama assembly line are the same as hand built AMG's in Afalterbach....Neither one is better...they are just "different"....Like you...
I think I get what your saying, but My view is that using better fit for purpose materials/part, in more detailed and controlled processes by people with more skill makes something better engineered.
Materials selection is a fundamental aspect of mechanical or structural engineering. Engineers selected better materials or production processes to create better or "different" parts as you call them. Engineers then decided on the use of those "different" parts for the purposes of higher performance use in an engine systems based on the fit of the mechanical propeties of those parts for their intended purpose.....Nope thats not better engineering..thats just because they wanted to be "different"
I am happy you feel a machine built engine would be better, but seems GM( all Z06 and ZR1 engines), AMG, Ferrari, Lamborghini, and every major race series and team in the world relies on the skill of a highly trained engine builder to produce the best built, highest performing engines possible. Yep, again, no engineering there, just being different again.
Thanks for your internet search on the M113. Good to know they are built with pretty high quality materials and high strength design. That doesn't mean AMG's aren't built with better parts or with better processes.
If AMG's are no better than any other Mercedes, just different as you claim, why did Mercedes feel the need to purchase AMG(who was a seperate company) and make them a wholy owned subsidery? Why do AMG's get made in a specialized factory by highly trained resources?
Yep, ML350 Benz's made on an Alabama assembly line are the same as hand built AMG's in Afalterbach....Neither one is better...they are just "different"....Like you...
I think I get what your saying, but My view is that using better fit for purpose materials/part, in more detailed and controlled processes by people with more skill makes something better engineered.
Again, its not better engineering. If one "standard" engineer is presented with the task of creating an engine that makes 300 bhp, will last 300k miles, and will run quietly with minimal oil consumption, and he meets that goal, the engineer has performed to task.
If the AMG engineer is given the goal of 500bhp, he simply uses stronger parts, which are readily available from any number of suppliers, to meet his task. Has he done any "better engineering"?
Now, you may have a point if your attempting to push the limits of power or material strength....but thats not the case here. A 500bhp 5.5L supercharged V8 is not anything new, different or special. I'm pretty sure that I, having essentially no engineering background, could take the 5.0L V8 in my S500, buy a set of CP dished pistons, a set of Oliver rods, and add a kleeman supercharger, and the required fuel and tuning requirements, and make 500bhp with ease. This stuff is simply not that hard...A 2L making 500bhp, now that takes "better engineering".
Now, you say that AMG, Ferrari, Lambo, etc all use hand built engines. That very well may be the case, and while 95% of those engines may be great, you can simply not hit the same consistency standards as an engine built by machine. Furthermore, there is nothing to indicate that a machine could not build an engine of the same performance. Part of this is marketing gimmick. Furthermore, ferrari, lambo, etc probably don't have the economies of scale necessary to see benefit from these "engine building machines".
Why did MB buy AMG? Probably for monetary and quality control reasons. Do you have any better reasoning?
Why are they built in a special factory? Again, I don't know...do you? What about the AMGs are hand built? Certainly not the car itself?
As for the alabama ML, whose talking about that? The ML has proven to have quality issues. But comparing a built in germany E500 to an E55 of the same year, I've found zero indication that the AMG has higher build quality. The reality is that these cars share a vast majority of their parts.
#106
MBWorld Fanatic!
You should see the video of an M3 engine being built,every single bolt is torqued to spec and is then put into the computer and the computer tells exaclty what to spec the next bolt.Every engine is built a little different and no machine in the world can come close to the specs bmw M power uses.
Watch this small video of an m3 engine being built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcvD_VaJ2UE
Then the engine hits the dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TDLn6c0pwA
Watch this small video of an m3 engine being built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcvD_VaJ2UE
Then the engine hits the dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TDLn6c0pwA
Last edited by skratch77; 03-31-2011 at 11:55 AM.
#107
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
now, watch the hour long video no the McLaren MP4-12c
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/248298/
That to me is "better engineering"...not a car like the SLS.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/248298/
That to me is "better engineering"...not a car like the SLS.
#108
MBWorld Fanatic!
now, watch the hour long video no the McLaren MP4-12c
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/248298/
That to me is "better engineering"...not a car like the SLS.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/248298/
That to me is "better engineering"...not a car like the SLS.
Look up gt3 testing to see how brutal they are on the engine dyno.
The car that I showed you is not 275,000 its 50,000 plus options.Im pretty sure BMWs mclaren F1 engine was built by a machine too lmfao
Last edited by skratch77; 03-31-2011 at 12:06 PM.
#109
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Salt Lake City (but not Morm)
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
10 Posts
2003 E55 & 2014 GL550
You should see the video of an M3 engine being built,every single bolt is torqued to spec and is then put into the computer and the computer tells exaclty what to spec the next bolt.Every engine is built a little different and no machine in the world can come close to the specs bmw M power uses.
Watch this small video of an m3 engine being built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcvD_VaJ2UE
Then the engine hits the dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TDLn6c0pwA
Watch this small video of an m3 engine being built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcvD_VaJ2UE
Then the engine hits the dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TDLn6c0pwA
![nix](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/nixweiss.gif)
#110
MBWorld Fanatic!
#112
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
You should see the video of an M3 engine being built,every single bolt is torqued to spec and is then put into the computer and the computer tells exaclty what to spec the next bolt.Every engine is built a little different and no machine in the world can come close to the specs bmw M power uses.
Watch this small video of an m3 engine being built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcvD_VaJ2UE
Then the engine hits the dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TDLn6c0pwA
Watch this small video of an m3 engine being built
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcvD_VaJ2UE
Then the engine hits the dyno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TDLn6c0pwA
Every engine is built a little differently? Is that good to you? Its not to me? I want my engine to produce what every other one does. What if you get the engine that produces less power? Are you ok with that?
You say "no machine in the world can come close to the specs bmw M power uses"
Can a human file a ring better than a computer? Can a human torque a bolt more accurately than a computer?
What specs are you referring to? Bearing clearance? ring gap?
If a computer can measure the specs (which it can, and does), then it can assemble an engine to that spec.
#114
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
What does the sturdiness of a GT3 engine on a dyno have to do with this?
#115
MBWorld Fanatic!
No buddy,when I say every engine is built a little different I ment that one bolt get torqued xxx then they input that spec into the computer and the system tells then exaclty what to torque the next bolt,every M engine will have different torque specs since not every engine is the same.
Watch the video of the guy with the 50,000 dollar torque wrench.
Watch the video of the guy with the 50,000 dollar torque wrench.
#116
MBWorld Fanatic!
#117
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,336
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
7 Posts
Porsche 991S, Cayenne S, 1972 BMW 3.0CS E9 Coupe
As much as we would wish any car we own to be something uber special, there is reality. Daimler is a for-profit company with shareholders wanting a return on their investment. They aren't running AMG as simply a cool toy to have in their toy box. They bought it because they want to turn a profit (and not only from the individual products, but also from the exposure it gives Daimler; e.g., the E63 can actually help sell E550s, etc..)
Good products can be well designed and well built, but there are parameters that need to always be considered and that has to do with the worldwide reality of profitability, materials, labor costs, assembly, vendors, production, regulations, reliability, emissions, fuel economy, projected sales, marketing, etc., etc..
The videos and the "Ultimate Factory" TV shows are fun to watch. But the are 'ultimately' marketing tools in themselves. Granted the SLS is a well built and well engineered car but it also has parameters that must be followed in order to be a profitable product. And Daimler board members aren't sitting around arguing about forged rods.
Good products can be well designed and well built, but there are parameters that need to always be considered and that has to do with the worldwide reality of profitability, materials, labor costs, assembly, vendors, production, regulations, reliability, emissions, fuel economy, projected sales, marketing, etc., etc..
The videos and the "Ultimate Factory" TV shows are fun to watch. But the are 'ultimately' marketing tools in themselves. Granted the SLS is a well built and well engineered car but it also has parameters that must be followed in order to be a profitable product. And Daimler board members aren't sitting around arguing about forged rods.
#118
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
No buddy,when I say every engine is built a little different I ment that one bolt get torqued xxx then they input that spec into the computer and the system tells then exaclty what to torque the next bolt,every M engine will have different torque specs since not every engine is the same.
Watch the video of the guy with the 50,000 dollar torque wrench.
Watch the video of the guy with the 50,000 dollar torque wrench.
I love how you talk about how great human construction is, while expounding on the benefit of a computerized torque wrench.
how about the SLS is a standard aluminum uni body. The mclaren is a carbon monocoque.
that is the difference between a good road car for the street and a race car made street legal.
#119
MBWorld Fanatic!
And why is that? Because a CF Monocoque is "better" suited for stiffness and torsional loading, while maintaing light weight? IE: better engineered materials and applying them in a better process to develop a performance product.
However I will give you that and SLS and a 12c are not meant to compete together anyhow...I am actually amazed that McLaren can sell those things at 200G's
However I will give you that and SLS and a 12c are not meant to compete together anyhow...I am actually amazed that McLaren can sell those things at 200G's
#120
Interesting. So lets say a computer torqued one bolt...then automatically fed that torque data into itself, and then instantly recognized the correct torque for the next bolt. How is that any different than a human doing it?
I love how you talk about how great human construction is, while expounding on the benefit of a computerized torque wrench.
I'm a fool? Porsche put a torque tube in the 928 back in 79. A c5 corvette has a torque tube. wow, its carbon fiber? bfd. My mustang had a carbon fiber drive shaft. This is nothing even close to new.
how about the SLS is a standard aluminum uni body. The mclaren is a carbon monocoque.
that is the difference between a good road car for the street and a race car made street legal.
I love how you talk about how great human construction is, while expounding on the benefit of a computerized torque wrench.
I'm a fool? Porsche put a torque tube in the 928 back in 79. A c5 corvette has a torque tube. wow, its carbon fiber? bfd. My mustang had a carbon fiber drive shaft. This is nothing even close to new.
how about the SLS is a standard aluminum uni body. The mclaren is a carbon monocoque.
that is the difference between a good road car for the street and a race car made street legal.
What does any of this have to do with a pulley? I understand the value of a good debate, but this is becoming laborious and has nothing to do with the fact that the OP came up with a solution to his problem that seems to be working.
GT-ER I once again applaud you and hope this works long term for you as I believe it will. Once everything is torqued down with the solution you've come up with, it becomes one unit and will probably act as such for many years to come. Hats off and please keep us updated.
Regards
#121
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clifton, NJ
Posts: 4,949
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
32 Posts
96 and 08 911 turbos
And why is that? Because a CF Monocoque is "better" suited for stiffness and torsional loading, while maintaing light weight? IE: better engineered materials and applying them in a better process to develop a performance product.
However I will give you that and SLS and a 12c are not meant to compete together anyhow...I am actually amazed that McLaren can sell those things at 200G's
However I will give you that and SLS and a 12c are not meant to compete together anyhow...I am actually amazed that McLaren can sell those things at 200G's
What does any of this have to do with a pulley? I understand the value of a good debate, but this is becoming laborious and has nothing to do with the fact that the OP came up with a solution to his problem that seems to be working.
GT-ER I once again applaud you and hope this works long term for you as I believe it will. Once everything is torqued down with the solution you've come up with, it becomes one unit and will probably act as such for many years to come. Hats off and please keep us updated.
Regards
GT-ER I once again applaud you and hope this works long term for you as I believe it will. Once everything is torqued down with the solution you've come up with, it becomes one unit and will probably act as such for many years to come. Hats off and please keep us updated.
Regards
#122
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 4,173
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
4 Posts
2005 E55 AMG
What does any of this have to do with a pulley? I understand the value of a good debate, but this is becoming laborious and has nothing to do with the fact that the OP came up with a solution to his problem that seems to be working.
GT-ER I once again applaud you and hope this works long term for you as I believe it will. Once everything is torqued down with the solution you've come up with, it becomes one unit and will probably act as such for many years to come. Hats off and please keep us updated.
Regards
GT-ER I once again applaud you and hope this works long term for you as I believe it will. Once everything is torqued down with the solution you've come up with, it becomes one unit and will probably act as such for many years to come. Hats off and please keep us updated.
Regards
I've been ignoring my own thread since it has obviously...
![](http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0903/derailed-train-derailed-thread-demotivational-poster-1237346157.jpg)
LOL... Hopefully it'll be of some help to someone in the future what may find themselves in the same situation.
#123
Senior Member
Thanks! I just ordered a new seal and bolt to get put the pulley back on and hopefully it'll be the last time I do it...EVER!
I've been ignoring my own thread since it has obviously...
![](http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0903/derailed-train-derailed-thread-demotivational-poster-1237346157.jpg)
LOL... Hopefully it'll be of some help to someone in the future what may find themselves in the same situation.
I've been ignoring my own thread since it has obviously...
![](http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0903/derailed-train-derailed-thread-demotivational-poster-1237346157.jpg)
LOL... Hopefully it'll be of some help to someone in the future what may find themselves in the same situation.
![bs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bs.gif)
#124
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here's something interesting.
http://www.unitcat.ru/mercedes/7/1/1/113986/07F/03/015/
Apparently there's a separate part # just for the woodruf key. Part #006888005005 (number 11)
http://www.unitcat.ru/mercedes/7/1/1/113986/07F/03/015/
Apparently there's a separate part # just for the woodruf key. Part #006888005005 (number 11)