urbamworm

I decided to run my two cars against each other and am pretty shocked on the outcome and honestly don't know what to think. I know my Audi is fast but figured the Benz would edge it out. I dynoed a few days ago and made 499whp 553wtq uncorrected in the E55 and the Audi did 430s a little over a month ago with torque just under 400. I also checked to be sure the pump was running afterward by opening the cap of my separated coolant system for supercharger and it was flowing nicely so it wasn't a problem from a bad intercooler pump. The Audi weights around 3600lbs so it does have an advantage there but the best I have done at the track is a 118.6mph trap (the car seems to never be working perfectly while there though) and haven't brought the Benz to the track but would expect 120+ with my mods and dynoed power. What do you guys have to say about this? If the syncros were good in the Audi transmission and I could actually shift fast it would have been worse since I wouldn't have lost ground to my friend driving my E55 when trying to shift at nearly 8000rpm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uh6wqPnzpA

W211 BEAST

Um... WTF?

cahiil55k

Is the Audi 430awhp or just whp? If it's AWD it might actually edge out the E55 in crank HP since AWD drivetrain loss is anywhere from 28-35%. The E55's drivetrain loss is somewhere in the range of 18-20%. Your E55 is trapping low but like you said it's probably due to the problems you had at the dragstrip. I dyno between 500-516whp and have trapped consistent 122-123's on 80 degree days and on cooler 90%+ humidity days.

urbamworm

Audi is all wheel drive and the loss is around 22% for the A4. There have been engines ran on a engine dyno and then in the car on a chassis dyno which confirmed it knowing the exact crank number of the engine before getting a wheel hp number. As for the crank numbers between the two, that doesn't really matter what they are when you calculate out the loss from the drivetrain so really the whp numbers are what matters.

And I haven't brought the E55 to the track, it was the A4 that trapped 118.6 when I went a few months ago.

As for the weather it was around 78 degrees out when the cars were ran.

GT-ER

Who cares how much power it has at the crank, power at the wheels is the ONLY thing that matters.

He also said he never took the E55 to the track.

Anyways...power to weight my friend. What I did notice from the E55's dyno is that power takes a very sharp dive in the upper rpms...my cars doesn't do that so you need to check that out. From 6000 to 6500rpm you lose like 80whp...that's crazy. In my car from 6K to 6.5K I lose like 2-3whp.

Nasty50-Five

either way, thats a nice looking E55!

urbamworm

I did notice that and see the a/f shoots down going rich at that point so I am wondering if it is in the tune just being safe since it was done to be a safe reliable tune, or if that is due to something else. I need to get some kind of datalogger to check everything out.

I don't know how the loggers work for these cars but I have software on my laptop for the Audi and can look at requested and actual air/fuel and then btdc timing and timing correction among other things like exhaust gas temps, etc., I would think you can see all of that also in the E55 but honesty haven't researched different loggers or software. I would like to see the boost as well to know what I am actually getting. Never was sure if the 180mm pulley produced around 14psi with the exhaust all opened up or if that was with a more restrictive stock exhaust.

cahiil55k

Only 22% drivetrain loss for the AWD is really efficient. I have a B6 S4 buddy who claims it's closer to 30% but that's a different Audi of course. I misread and thought the E55 was running 118's at the track...duh to myself.

urbamworm

They are all around the same just over 20% from many different cars (A4, S4) in the B5, B6, B7 chassis. Your friend is not right saying 30%, that is to high or he has dynoed on a extremely low reading dyno.

AWOL

that blows

zach1745

WOW!

mikeevo

seems you can some variation run to run so alot of factors play in this. first, as others mention the weight to HP ratio is a big factor especially if you taking power on the big end. E55 is good low end car and not the best 60 -140 mph, the E63 is proof of that but from 5mph roll -80mph its a BEAST. gearing is another important factor as with the A4 you can really pick the best gear for your start speed, any idea if he down shifted manually first or was it all AUTO. secondly, all-wheel HP is going to be alot more than a standard rear drive Dyno apples to apples comparison, My 08 EVO only posted 330HP on 2 wheel dyno but routinely beat 400HP cars from any speed roll on. it sounds like from specs it should be close but I didnt believe the first race as you blew by him. but in the last race he was leaving you the entire time. this is why the track is so important. you get alot more info. like 60 ft and then you see whos ******* it. 1000ft times and 1/8 mile time and speed and 1/4 trap speed to see if you HP numbers add up. seems you already know if some is trapping alot faster than you they are making more power and would be the faster car. Then it comes down to driver and launch. but nice to see your A4 running well. Not to belittle my E55 buy my friends 09 EVO beat me down at the track. hes running 11.2 and I am mid-low 12s. Just shows you what you can do with Wt. and a small 4cyc and a big TURBO. enjoy.

PS get em to the track and show us some Vids and numbers

urbamworm

The reason there was variation is because my transmission is really messed up in the A4. I have broke 7 transmissions in that car because they don't offer a stronger alternative outside of changing the entire drivetrain out (4 axles, rear differential, transmission, shift linkage, driveshaft) and running a transmission out of the S4 but then the gearing is not good doing that so then you have a stronger transmission but gearing that is to long and/or causes you to fall out of boost between shifts. I went to the track not to long ago and broke 1st gear in the A4 so I just threw in a spare transmission I had which I knew had bad syncros causing it to shift poorly at high rpm but I just wanted the car driveable for the time being until I get a good tranny to put in it. If you listen to the video carefully you can hear the grinding as I try to shift which affects the shifts quite a bit on quickness and then listen for the turbo to respool up. In the last video when I go to shift to 4th it wouldn't go in and you can hear how long it took for the turbo to start spooling again since I finally got it in gear and back on the throttle.

I had just assumed from watching videos online of the 55 pulling at high speeds still on other cars like the M5, etc when modded like mine that it would do the same to the A4 but that was clearly not the case. I haven't ever ran anyone in it so don't have other cars to compare it to other than this run against my Audi. I am wondering if just that hp drop in the graph betweeen 6000-6500rpm could be making a big difference or not, but really if you think about it, it is running at lower rpms before that and I am still right next to it or pulling on it even with the slow shifting in the A4.

As for the E55 shifting, I told him to run it in auto for the first few runs and then we did the last 2 with him in manual mode with him putting it in 2nd gear to start the run. One of the runs I missed a gear in the A4 though so that run wasn't put in the video. Then that last run where I gave him the head start in the video I really "missed a gear" also since it took like 2 seconds to get 4th gear engaged so I wasn't able to start realing him in and we pretty much just kept our distance. I can always do this again, I just need to get someone to drive the E55 so it isn't to hard. I would like to do it with someone actually holding the camera so they can pan around but I didn't want to change the weight having 2 people in one car either.

As for the track, I was thinking about maybe going to a test and tune this coming Wednesday night in the E55, I have never been to the track in it and don't have a drag setup though so it would be on street tires. So I would guess just leaving esp on and then do runs in both auto and manual.

Anyone know what kind of times are seen on modded E55s with street tires and does the trap speed stay pretty close to the same if on street tires or drag radials/slicks. I can get pretty close to the same in my A4 if I rip off the line running a 1.7 60ft or easing off the line with a 2.1 so I would assume it should be the same in the Benz.

The best the Audi has done is a 12.21 ET and that was with a not so great 60ft (think it was high 1.8) and 118.6mph being the best trap but like I said before there always seems to be something going on at the track. The car could be running perfect on the way there then it will start misfiring or the throttle body will act up or something, it is a pain in my butt.

Here is the best trap

http://youtu.be/rExYUlZ2rk0

E55Dimon

A4Tschusss??! Is that you? Haha

urbamworm

Yes this is me.

E55Dimon

I remember you from way back in the day on audizine b6 a4 section. We've chatted via pm when I wanted to go BAT on the b6. Everything kept breaking after I went with revo stg 2+ so I traded her in and went with a 35R on an evo8.
Looks like we have the same car again lol. This is pizdetsauduxa btw.

urbamworm

Oh ok, cool. I am not sure if I remember the name but I have a ton of people pm me asking questions for help, idea, tips etc. all the time so it is hard to keep track of everyone and then if it was long ago then well yeah good luck remembering that one haha.

I see you picked a good color and have a little front end updating done

E55Dimon

Got the right color indeed, just a few mods short of your list lol. Nice to see the B6 still running strong, if mine held up the power I would've hung on to it too. Turbo sounds nice too

guysandiego

Seems about right -- Similar race I had with TT996 -- but my car doesnt die as much as yours up top. 996 i raced had about 420whp -- and I am around 500whp -- we were nose to nose -- i gained a 1/4 panel at the top of my gears and gave it back when my car shifted --

CWW

Took me a minute to figure out what's going on in that vid...

Unless I'm mistaken that's JTB @ the intracoastal, no? It looks flat in the video, but it's not. In real life, that road is graded at a pretty good upwards angle the whole distance you guys ran, your run happened on the lead up to the intracoastal bridge. So you're racing uphill, which multiplies the E55's weight disadvantage compared to the Audi. The higher the grade of the road off of a flat surface, the worse the heavier car will perform relative to the lighter one, it's basic physics. As the grade increases, the heavier car's weight offsets a much greater amount of the available power. Principle of leverage.

Run both cars again, on a flat surface this time, and I bet you'll see the opposite outcome.

* Edited to add: I meant the intracoastal and JTB in Mexico. They have one too.

mikeevo

Would be interesting to know as that is a game changer.

stevebez

Well difficult to comment given the first runs I could not really see what happened ... the run with the E ahead seemed to me saw him pull further ahead?

That Audi is going to be super quick with those mods, and its multiplied big time with the lighter car... makes me want to turbo my A3 3.2DSG

Mbe the E not at its best, but I am not surprised by that result

Gus83

sorry but what wheels are you running, the car looks great!!! oh and it sounds phenomenal too.

urbamworm

Nope, nice guess but you are wrong. That is not JTB, and as for going up any kind of hill, only the 2nd run did we go slightly up the bridge before we let off and it isn't a steep bridge such as the one at JTB either and then in the first run you can see I had went through 2-4th gear in the Audi and then let off before we even hit the transition on to the bridge. The runs were on flat (flat being relative, I am sure there is some kind of slope) road and then like I said that one starts going "up" the bridge but it is not tall/steep.

It is hot as hell today (93* with a low of 63*) but I am going to the 1/4 mile in about 3 hours. I am going to bring a bag of ice in a cooler to put on the supercharger to cool it down and see what the car will do. I will be on street tires though, so we will see.

urbamworm

Like I said in the video and my first post, the Audi has worn out syncronizers in the transmission, it DOES NOT like to shift fast at high rpms anymore and sometimes doesn't want to go in gear. Listen to the grinding of the gears as I shift and in that last run I had a heck of a time getting in to 4th. It is very easy to tell when I am on the gas in the Audi since you will hear the turbo start whistling again. I shift in to 4th gear at 2:19 and you don't hear the turbo start whistling again until 2:21 so the car was coasting for 2 seconds before going again, that is why the E55 stayed ahead and started to slightly pull.

In fact here is another video showing exactly how the road is. You can see how you go down a little from a small bridge to the flat area (which is where we ran) and then it goes back up some at the very end which is where you saw the bridge. click me