ertech

when to the dealer yesterday to pick up a oil filter for my 07 E63 and from My VIN he gave me a non fleece filter , I told him I read from this site I need a fleece filter.the EPC says non fleece.
What is the story?
Thanks all

by the way I did use the search before

skratch77

what does the oil cap say?on e55 it says to use a fleece.I would run a mann fleece on your car.The paper ones will crumble and fold up and kill oil pressure over time.

ertech

My cap says nothing for the filter . What should I use and part number please?thanks

220S

This is from a booklet that my Indy gave me called Factory Approved Service Products.

Filter element for use with engine oils meeting 229.5 or 229.51 specification in vehicles with MB Maintenance System as of MY2005.

156 engine oil filter
MB part # 000 180 30 09

What brand is it? The older fleece are Mann filters and the other should be a Hengst.

Hengst MB part # 000 180 30 09.
Mann MB part # 000 180 26 09

The post 2007 cars no longer use FSS for oil changes. It's all based on mileage intervals. The proper filter is #000 180 30 09 for the M156 E63 motors. (and no it won't fall apart and destroy your motor, that's b.s.) This is the correct filter. If you're doing long oil change intervals then you could use the fleece, it won't hurt.

Don't forget the replace the copper crush washer.....

220S

Just to try to clarify here's a pic from the Daimler service product booklet. Extended oil drain intervals for certain MB motors specifies fleece. Since FSS, MB has gone to time and mileage intervals and oil changes are 10k (although lots of people do 5k or 7.5k on their motors.) If somebody's going to do extended intervals (over 10k) like under the old FSS method, then they will no doubt be better off with fleece filters, imho.

The A 000 180 26 09 fleece filters were required for the E55 under 229.5 and 229.51. But with the M156 motor of the E63 they've gone to paper. Although I can't say for sure with what or how they're made inside, etc.. But they are A 000 180 30 09 and supplied to Daimler by Hengst http://www.hengst.de/conpresso/_rubr...rubric=Home_DE

Even though under FSS and 229.5/229.51 they required fleece with the longer drain intervals, it still depended on the motor. Fleece oil filters must be used in M112, M113, M272 and M273 engines. And it appears that before 2005 and with these motors, the fleece filters were never actually mandatory.

ertech

Can a fleece filter help bring up oil pressure to help with lifter noise?
Thanks

220S

You really shouldn't be having any noise. Just a bit of tappet clicking for a very short time (like 10-15 seconds) until the oil circulates. Mine's quiet and uses no oil between changes. That's the way they really should be, imho.

I'd personally stick with the recommended OEM oil filter. In the meantime have the dealer check out the lifter noise. They were some issues on the earlier 6.2 motors; do a search on the C63 forums, there's a lot more traffic there concerning the 6.2 and some threads there about valve train noise.

Quadcammer

no

skratch77

Iv known a few people that had severe lifter tic and valve train noises from using a paper filter and have seen over 10 paper filters folding and crunched when getting oil changes at my friends shop.

There was a post here not to long ago that had a paper filter crunched up and the e55 had severe valve noises.

Oliverk you have no freaking clue and I dont know anyone that runs a paper filter.Its paper and it will fail and then starve your engine of oil pressure and give your lifters a nice dry hump.

Quadcammer

uh, I'm sure you have. I've seen 60 million paper filters that have survived far higher oil pressure and longer drain intervals than in your precious e55.

If a paper filter got crunched up, collapsed, or was other wise "crumbling" as you said, it was either installed improperly or had a manufacturing defect.

yes, you should run a fleece filter on cars that MB requires them for. That said, a paper filter is not going to result in any issues if you change the oil frequently. The whole point of the fleece filter is extended drain intervals.

And since I have no freaking clue, lets examine what you know.

What oil pressure does the E55 have at hot idle, hot 2000 rpm, and hot 6000rpm?

skratch77

Put this in your E63

NCE500

Just had my oil changed at the dealer last week; they used oil filter MB part number 000 180 30 09, don't know if it's Fleece or not but that is the part # I have always used since owning mine.

MB sais to change oil once per year or every 10K miles for my 07, I change it twice a year in my Benzes.

In the grand scheme of things, 9qts. of Mobil 1, a drain washer, and oil filter don't cost all that much to ensure that the engine has clean/fresh oil.

Yuille36

I have never used anything over than a Mann or Hengst filters, besides the OEM AMG filters. From the above picture, if your going to use a paper filter just shoot yourself in the head now.

Quadcammer

THAT IS NOT EVEN THE FILTER FOR AN M113

wow, well one picture of a filter that could have been torn apart after it was removed is certainly convincing. Give me some statistics, not this anecdotal nonsense.

Still waiting on that oil pressure information btw.

wow, one picture is enough huh? man, I should tell you the story about the guy whose E63 blew a motor on the way to work. you'd probably sell the car.

Yuille36

Do tell, I'm all ears

Quadcammer

trundling along in traffic on route 80 in NJ. Number 6 connecting rod decided it wanted some fresh air, straight out the side of the block.

I'm not sure if the dealer bothered to figure out why, but the guy got a new motor.

Yuille36

And we all thought AMG engines are bulletproof. What would cause a number 6 piston and connecting rod, to decide that they don't want to be a part of the engine anymore?

Quadcammer

Who knows, may have been a manufacturing error on a rod or rod bolt, some grit in the bearing that cause it to spin/seize, etc.

Its a machine, sometimes things happen. Which is precisely my point with respect to the filter. Mann, hengst, etc are producing hundreds of thousands of filters a year. On some occasions, you get a bad one.

Considering probably 95% of all vehicles today run paper filters, there is no reason to think a paper filter would cause damage/fail in the e55 or E63 engine. These cars generally run fairly low oil pressure (more pressure...more drag...less power) compared to some vehicles.

While I would also stick to fleece, the paper filters are fine if you change your oil frequently.

Yuille36

Oliverk,

Thank you for enlightening, on a possible issue.

grane

Use 0-40 m1 now on sale at NAPA at $4.99 per quart!

ertech

Great will try fleece. Anyone git a part num thst will work with tge e63
By the way why would the 63 take paper and the 55 fleece?
Thanks

220S

This has been dealt with ad nauseum by the old timers at Peach Parts Tech Forums (where people with real knowledge discuss MBs and where the mods are certified Mercedes techs.) There are tons of pics, websites, and threads about German oil filters and their manufacturing and their contents. Where they come from, who makes them, who re-brands them. They are even posts from emails sent out by the factory reps at Hengst, Mann, and Mahle.

Be specific. Are those Daimler spec'd Hengst filters you say have failed? In the M156 motor?

Did you know that Mann+Hummel redesigned the fleece filter for MB because there were instances of them releasing fibers. Did you know that the design has undergone changes several times because of that? Did you know that fleece is used by MB ONLY because of the FSS system in determining oil change intervals? That fleece is required by MB because of EXTENDED drain intervals and no other reason?

I realize you know a lot about cars and engines in general. But you're a relative newbie to Mercedes and its history There's a lot behind Daimler's engineering strategies that are unique and even a bit esoteric. And many times they go against the grain of conventional thinking. in addition, there is always the economics of manufacturing and economies of scale with production. Not all is what it may seem to be on the surface.

Are the filters that you see destroyed actually the Hengst paper filters used in the E63 M156? If you look at my MB publication, you'll see that there are two different filters as OEM spec. One for the M113 and one for the M156.

skratch77

Im not just talking about using paper filters on MBs,im talking about using them in all performance cars.

I dont think any of you would run a paper filter in a 680whp turbo.

Heres a thought on that e63 that blew a rod,maybe it had 12000 miles on its paper filter and it blocked oil pressure and threw a rod.

paper filters are ok for 3k mile changes but I would not run one in any of my cars.

GT-ER just had a thread on how his car sounded like crap with a paper filter and just by changing to a fleece it lowered his valve train noise.

That means the paper filter was blocking flow.

Go ahead and run what ever you want in your car,my friends speed shop that works on cars that you could only dream of would never use a paper filter.

we just did a F40 with custom LM turbos and a motec setup and a fully built engine.

I cant wait to see what it puts down when he tunes it.

Those turbos were 16k a pop from italy and I dont think a paper filter is going in this car lol

220S

Sorry but you're getting things mixed up. The OP has the M156 motor not the M113. This thread got twisted around. GT-ER has the M113 motor and the Mann+Hummel A 000 180 26 09 fleece filters are required. He was using the wrong filter.

For the M156 the requirement is the Hengst made A 000 180 30 09 filter. It is not a fleece filter.

Are you telling people with the M156 to not use the Daimler spec'd filter?

btw, not everyone with the M156 have tappet noise. Have you researched the posts in the C63 section about tappet noise? They are experiencing mechanical issues (that were remedied by MB) and not oil circulation issues. They all use the OEM spec'd filter for the M156.

I have no valve train noise, use no oil between drains, and have used the OEM Hengst filter from the dealer since day one. I'm the original and sole owner of the car.

skratch77

I would use a fleece filter in anycar I drive