Lycan

I came across an interesting situation where a guy offered to trade me his 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo (996) 6-speed with 30K miles on it for my 2008 E63 P30. His car is not an x50, but it is super clean. The AWD feature is pretty nice to have, but I don't know. The 911 seems like a very inconvenient car to live with as a DD.

So what do you think here guys who have owned 911s? Would that be a pretty dumb trade?

emoving

Your 63 value is dropping like a rock, and the pcars have pretty much deprciated all they are going to. They are solid cars with little worries of any breakage. Plus they are just badass. Ok so with my new purchase, maybe im a little bias.

Lycan

Thanks E.

Hope all is well in C-Town. I'm from Dublin.

220S

I have two P-cars and I wouldn't own them without another daily around. You'll find many times when you can't even bring home something you just bought because it won't fit into the car.

You can certainly use them as dailies, but just be sure you have a backup car with more room.

I personally dislike the 996 versions but the motor in the Turbo version is pretty solid with the Mezger GT1 derived version (and a dry sump, too.) The 996 was a major cost cutting time for Porsche (almost bankrupt at the end of the 1999) and that's when they brought in Toyota to show them mass production. The 996 was a far cry from the build quality of the previous 993 but the change over to mass production saved the company.

Be sure to get a FULL ppi from an expert P-car mechanic and check the error code records for any type 1 and especially type 2 over revs. Be wary.

dgkalis

I've owned 2. Both 2002's. One just had a nice tune. And the other was 700 hp.
They are extremely easy DD's. Never left me stranded. I put over 50k miles on both of them having bought them with about 15k on the clock.

There are a few things you need to look out for. One would be the cam rings. There are a few that got bad batches from the factory. If they go bad... it throws a code 1325. Exhaust intake cam.

If the code history has that... and the cams haven't been replaced. Pass. Its a 4-6k job.

Other than that... i think they are virtually bullet proof.

emoving

Nice, graduated from there a looonnnnngggg time ago when there was only 1 HS. Well I expect to see you at timmayfest then.

emoving

The one I bought they told me had neither. I did not really know what they were talking about. What is that exactly?

Lycan

Would a Porsche dealer be able to give me a code history? The guy actually works at a dealership. It's his car. The thing is that the car doesn't have any kind of warranty attached to it. So I would be SOL if something like that came up.

Xposure

I wouldnt, the 996's look outdated IMO

220S

Here's the best explanation that I saved a while back from either Pelican Parts Tech forums or Rennlist (can't remember which):
________________________________

Type 1 and Type 2 Over-revs

I discovered some information on the Type 1 and Type 2 over-revs that I would like to share. I purchased the Durametric OBD-II software and cable set a week ago and have evaluated my error codes and Over-Rev Counts The count that is recorded, and cannot be erased to my knowledge, is a count of the ignition firings above the redline threshold. It is not the total of the times that the engine has breached the redline value, as I was led to believe. The count is broken down into the two categories and I'm not sure how it does this, but it just does.

Type 1 is an over-rev condition that thru to engines own inertia or power stroke has exceeded redline and the DME has fired the ignition during above redline and the condition has recorded the individual firings. It also records the time (Total Hours) and is revised at each event.

Type 2 is an over-rev condition when an external force has caused the engine to speed beyond the redline threshold such as down shifting to a lower gear and engine matches the rpm of the transmission input shaft.

The difference between the two may sound subtle, but is more involved.

In a Type 1 condition, such as when one misses and up-shift, the engine is in a free-wheeling state and the internal energy is acting on the rotating and reciprocating mass. The crankshaft is unloaded for a brief moment and there is still some force on the top of the piston during most of the 4 stroke cycle.

Type 2 conditions are not healthy for the rod and rod bolts, although there must be some design reserve before yield. When one down shifts to a gear which leads to an over-rev condition, there is little energy pushing down on the head of the piston to keep the rod in a compression mode. The crankshaft is pushing violently on the rod and then jerking the piston and rod assembly back towards the crank center line. The rods are primarily designed for a compression mode, meaning forces enacted on the top of the piston and imparting energy into the crankshaft via the connecting rod. The connecting rods and bolts really don’t like the dynamics in a stretching mode and this condition leads to material yielding. This is the condition that causes the rod bolts to fail. They yield during the stretch. The connecting rod can also yield due to stretch, but that is seen more with Aluminum Connecting Rods.

When I saw the number of type 1 and type 2 over-revs, my heart started to race. I was thinking that the engine was going to explode at any time because of the previous driver was thrashing the engine. When I came to my senses, I realized that the counts were ignition firings, and that at 6,700 rpm’s there are 55.8 firings in a given second, I felt a little better. Consider the actual time the engine is in an over-rev’ed mode. The DME caught the condition, responded with the appropriate shut down to protect the engine. This would be the dwell time of what, may a second or two. So at 2 seconds there were 112 firings. So if your count was 1435 over-rev firings, then it would have been 13 times that the engine over shot the redline. The type 2 over-revs were 91 and means that maybe someone jammed it into a lower gear just once.
_________________________________________

NOTE: "Porsche voids the warranty for type REV2 violations of any sort. PERIOD. If you get the car from a third party and go to the local dealer about popping out of second, you stand a nearly certain chance of paying top dollar for the repair if you have a REV2.

My dreadful experience about this very issue on my PPI USED X50 with PAG leads me to say that you should not get a used 996TT with REV2 overruns. PAG is using this as an excuse to avoid warranty repair. And these things do have reliability issues."

emoving

I talked to several people yesterday and they said that some people blow these revs out of proportion. While an over rev may not be the best thing, it dosnt mean they are going to expolode.

tscales

I use my 04 996TT as my DD, but it isn't my only car. I added it to the E55 wagon, rather than replacing it. We also have a Grand Caravan.

Lots of varied opinions. I don't think the look is dated and while it may have been in the 'cost cutting time', the TT is rock solid and great fun.

Enjoy the heck out of mine, but WOULDN'T make this trade. Couldn't live with it being my only car.

K-A

If you go forth with this trade, I give props to the current Porsche owner for a sweet come-up.

snacl500

I would. I traded my 996TT for the E55. I needed the rear seats but I now wish I kept the TT and bought something else. It seems that the TT prices have somewhat leveled off. My E55 value has been dropping more rapidly.

Faast

Porsche is a totally different animal than an E55.... Make sure you get the right one (low mileage/accident free/service history/limited # of owners) or else be ready to live with it for next few years.
So what are the specs (color/trans/options/mods/price) on this new toy ?

Faast

In a stock form yes but get a GT2 nose/deck lid,tune the car and trust me it won't look/feel outdated at all

220S

Of course it doesn't mean it will explode. And if you read the post, it's saying exactly why it erroneously gets blown out of proportion. Which is why the description of type 1 versus type 2. But the point is to check the DME for 1 and 2. PAG doesn't seem to think type 2 is trivial and they built the car. They are two different over revs.......

I've owned many variants: 912, 911, 930, 964, 993 and 997.2 (I skipped the 996.) And I've been a member of the PCA for many years. There's a lot more to the cars than meets the eye, and if you're interested in the brand (and its history) than it's worth knowing about it, imho. I was offering the info only to be helpful. Otherwise just drive the car. The Hans Mezger derived blocks of the 996TT are pretty solid.

tscales

Glad you had the wink or I would have thought you were serious.

Lycan

It's a blue, 6-speed, 30K miles, with one owner. I dunno...my E63 is a damn sharp car. It's a gas guzzler for sure, but an all around great car. I am not sold on the 996TT thing just yet.

K-A

I actually am. I personally wouldn't trade an '08 E63 (especially P30) for an '02 996 Turbo (considering equal mileage). The E63 is a better all around car to me.

Lycan

That is what my gut is telling me K-A.

My 2008 P30 has 25K miles on it and is absolutely pristine. That is why I didn't cry too hard after paying a bit extra for it. It was well into the $50s. But it's pretty tight on back roads...has 4 doors, and a truck big enough for several bodies:-) The 996TT is very space limited, no warranty, but is very nice.

Ehhhhh...

Good hearing other's opinions here about the matter.

K-A

Here's the way I see it, in an objective sort of way (i.e not a "Mercedes VS Porsche", or "2-Doors are cooler", etc. kind of way). The E63 has the performance part down pat, and with it comes more comfort, MUCH more luxury, a MUCH nicer interior, much better passive and active safety, and more room to boot (whether you like that for interior space/ambiance or to seat more people comfortably). Not to mention it's newer. The Porsche would be a "soul" choice if you go for it, which there's nothing wrong with that, but IMO the brain would stick with the E63, the heart will vary depending on the individual person.

If it was a 997, obviously things would be a bit different. Not that the 996 is anything to sneeze at (I was considering getting one, a 996 Turbo as well), but the 997 did some necessary refinements to that car.

Faast

There's no sedan in the world including E63 (with or without P30) and or Panamera TT that can beat a proper sports car let alone a 996 TT. I am not saying E63 is a not a good car,it is a great sport sedan but you can't compare it to a proper sports car let alone a 996 TT.
Two different cars for two different people and for two different purpose.
In your case,if you need space then keep the E63 but if you don't,then test drive the TT and you will see what i mean. It has the luxury,the performance,AWD and above all it comes in a stick,which is what i was missing in my E55..

220S

Trust me on this (see my first post): unless you have a larger car to fall back on, the P-car will be very limited in certain instances. Even taking a really long road trip (which I've done many times), you'll be fighting over what stuff you can bring with you. And there have been many times that I've stopped in the store to buy things only to realize that I have to go home and switch cars because the item wouldn't fit.

To be honest I know of no one (friends, other PCA members, forum members, etc.) that have a 911 variant as their ONLY car. Or the wife or other family members have other cars.

They're great cars and amazing performance. But even doing long trips you eventually need to take a break (in the AMG you can cruise forever.) In an ideal situation you would have both cars in your stable.

Good luck with your decision (and try to keep emotions at bay, there will always be Porsches available to buy...)

Yacht Master

IMHO, DD is all they are. There is not enough space for overnight bags (& wifes makeup bag) so scrap the weekend trip to the mountains . Oh and a pick-up at the airport can be an unexpected problem. Just have you chef go grocery shopping.
So end of the day, you will need a practical second vehicle, you know one that can hold 8 people and tow a 28' boat.