whipplem104

Sorry, I was referring to crank hp.

antbrow

Making 600+ whp with the stock SC at high boost, high heat, and out of efficiency is much more dangerous than making 600+ whp with less boost and less heat with a 3.0L SC. Detonation is caused by heat, introducing a cool, efficient charge into the cylinder is what these engines need to reliably make high horse power. It looks like Wesitec is answering all the weaknesses with the stock heat pump we all call a supercharger. I gave Weistec a call today because I had to get more info. The intercooler is completely surrounded by moving air, creating a thermal barrier to engine heat getting to the core.

Karlson

after these words, I just stopped reading this thread and not selling my kidney anymore.

gaspam

then now we are back to case that everyone that is running a pulley and headers needs to take them off the car cuz they are at 500 whp mark...(75hp crank per cylinder = 500whp assuming 17-18% driveline loss.)

there are couple guys on this forum running 540+ whp on stock pistons.. i am sure they can chime in

whipplem104

I totally understand that. But even with a properly sized blower and good intercooling I just do not think that the stock pistons can handle that. I might be wrong but I think that that is a short run at that power level. I have broken two pistons on my own engine at roughly these numbers and have seen the same on a quite a few others. All around the same per cylinder.
My last stock piston broke on E85, no chance of detonation. My stock pistons are of the same type but actually a little thicker lands and higher tension rings for an iron block.

whipplem104

No, I think that the pistons can take the 70-75. I think much more than that and you better be prepared to buy a new engine. Hell, would have one in the garage.

gaspam

i guess luckily for us Weistec is going to put one of these on a 55 and test it and we will see what happens... I am sure they are not planning on slapping a hand grenade on the engine and calling it a day

blackbenzz

Good points antbrow. I would be very happy to see a stock block E55 make 600+whp on pump gas. I am just skeptical to say the least. Hyperutectic pistons are not very strong. I don't know why AMG put in forged crank and rods but hyperutectic pistons

I'm not looking to argue with you. I am just giving my opinion. And no I don't think people with pulley and headers need to take them off. I'm running way more than that on my personal car/s. Feel free to run 600+whp on your personal car and report back with the results. I bet I can count more blown motors than you can find E55s making over a legitimate 540whp backed up with 1/4 mile times.

Good luck to Weistec and I'm sure their final product will be great. Maybe they can chime in on what they think the internals limits are

Karlson

Each dyno is different. no one got 540+ of real whp on this board, unless it was Mickey Mouse Dyno. I was at the one my self, had like 800+ of trq, but thats a lie.

tbal

Im thinkin 10-12g...

kenne belle needs to get into this gameeeee...

BenzoBoi

This is going to be interesting...

My guess is $10k+

gaspam

not looking to argue either... my main point originally is a 3.0L blower with good intercooler and fueling on a 5.5L motor should have no prob makinh 600hp....thats it

now will internals last forever?... who knows yet... if it doesnt then we rebuild.... this is why you see honda civic run in the 8s and 9s... because they are willing to try and fail and try again....

if cost of rebuild is a barrier to someone then they prob shouldnt be modding their car in first place

BRIZZOK84

The blower looks very similar to a kenny bell type blower. What size it the unit? IT would be crazy if you could put a 4.0L blower on a 55. then you can make 850 + wrhp.

Johncy2000

3.0L

bbearden

I'm very excited to see someone build an aftermarket blower for our car and ready to hear about the HP gains this setup will bring!

There has been some great discussion on the stock limit of our hypereutectic (cast) pistons. Blackbenz speaks from direct experience regarding the weaknesses of hypereutectic pistons. For those who care to learn more about the OEM pistons and why Mercedes likely elected to put cast pistons in our cars:
Those of us who have gone to aftermarket forged pistons have noticed more piston "slap" during cold startup. This is because forged performance pistons have a very low silicon content and have a higher rate of thermal expansion in the cylinder, thus the piston to cylinder wall clearance must have a looser cold fit as the expansion when reaching operating temperature would otherwise be too great. By adding silicon to the piston's alloy (our German brethren are actually credited with the invention of hypereutectic alloys), piston expansion is dramatically reduced (as is the cold slapping noise). Most folks test driving a $90K+ performance car would not be thrilled with more audible engine noise above and beyond what our cars already make. Silicon itself expands less than aluminium, but it also acts as an insulator to prevent the aluminium from absorbing as much of the operational heat. Another benefit of adding silicon is that the piston becomes harder and is less susceptible to scuffing which can occur when a soft aluminium piston is cold-revved in a relatively dry cylinder on start-up or during abnormally high operating temperatures. The tradeoff to having a harder more durable cast piston is that is also becomes more brittle, thus more susceptible to damage during detonation or pre-ignition. A silicon percentage of up to 12% is completely soluble in aluminum at operating temperatures. Either more or less silicon than this will result in two separate phases in the solidified crystal structure of the metal. When significantly more silicon is added to the aluminum than 12%, the properties of the aluminum change in a way that is useful for the purposes of pistons for combustion engines. However, at a blend of 25% silicon there is a significant reduction of strength in the metal, so hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. High performance racing pistons typically have very little silicon content (~2%) and are much more resistant to detonation damage. With Hypereutectic pistons, the primary reason for having all of this free silicon is to reduce piston ring groove wear. This allows piston designers to move the top compression ring much farther up the side of the piston (where combustion temperatures are much hotter), and run much smaller, thinner piston ring lands (the metal section separating the ring grooves). The reason piston designers want to do this is that it allows a lighter piston to be produced, and also has dramatic results in changing engine emission characteristics. As emission laws become tougher, it will be commonplace to find true Hypereutectic pistons in road engines. Unfortunately, its those thinner ring lands that have bitten many of us in the *** with our engines.

Havoc

Looks great and like the clutchless set-up!

Interested in your Highly Modified version!

stevebez

I don't get why everyone speculating about price when we dont know how they going to cool this puppy down?

If we reuse the OEM cooler what a waste of time this will be.

Havoc

Weistec created their own design so no need for the reuse of our stock cooler. It uses the same air to water intercooler setup as our stock unit, but their design is far superior.

vietjdmboi

I looked at their kit for the 63 motors and it shows the unit comes with a 1000hp core. So I wouldn't doubt that the 55k would have about the equivalent.

stevebez

also under the S/C?

vietjdmboi

Well, this is looking at the kit for a 63 but yes also under the SC.

chawkins2001

Hyper Pistons vs. Forged pistons both have one enemy, detonation. Sure forged pistons are stronger, but there are plenty of tuners pushing the envelope with Hyper pistons on other platforms with great results. It is all in the TUNE

I have quite a few buddy's that have blown up motors with a forged rotating assembly due to a bad build and tune, and there are also plenty that are running way more power than everyone else with hyper pistons but have the best tuners in the business work their cars. They saved their money from having to go forged and when the motor does let go, the cheese is there for the build. Some have been running on hypers for years.

Hell talk to Brooke, he just had his forged motor get hurt, and he was making right around 600rwhp. For a forged motor, that is extremely low in terms of HP, so something happened outside of the build and stronger components that caused the failure ie. detonation.

Lots of fuel, low air temps, efficeint blower, good tuner, and I dont see why our motors could not live at 600rwhp for a long time.

abhatti55

At what point do you say the hell with it and go V12? And after that go with the GT-R.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/pts/2694662001.html

I am expecting big things out of the upcoming supercharger pulley and maybe one day we will see a set of affordable top mounts for the 113.

chawkins2001

V12's are not any faster than our E55's. Only V12 that is a little ahead of us is the renntech tuned CL65 that ran a 10.2 or 10.3 whatever it was. I bet you could not run that car on the street with that tune though. It was probably a one off tune, super aggressive just to brake the record.

Other than that, the E55 and C63 are where it's at. If you want big power that will rape the GTR, drop in forged pistons and start hitting the spray

adianaty

I tend to agree. Let's not forget that up to a little over a year ago, everyone was running their injectors at 100% duty cycle. Now with the readily available injector and tuning options to go with them, I am not sure we have heard of a person blowing their stock motors with the stage III mods. I recognize that there isn't anyone that is really pushing 600whp right now, but let's face it, if you run out of fuel you will blow your motor...

It would be interesting to prove this somehow since it is a theory but I'm guessing a pretty relevant one.