almost done the ultimate split cooling setup(not selling anything lol) just a teaser
12-21-2011, 06:44 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
The limitation is still the BTU capacity of the intercooler. A heat exchanger twice the size will make no difference. The over-sized heat exchangers and high capacity pumps which are now extensively in use either match or exceed capacity of the factory intercooler. Chilled water from a reservoir increases the temperature differential over the OAT and is helpful. The engine thinks it's wintertime, but you're still stuck with the BTU limitations. The SLR's and forthcoming Evo top mounts bear this out. The TD between the IAT and OAT is a constant relative to the latent heat of compression. Ergo we observe the 113's increase power the colder the OAT becomes. In other words, if a particular heat exchanger lowers the coolant temperature to the OAT you would be at 100% efficiency and from what I gather, the various higher capacity HE's and pumps are about there. But, again kids, it's the BTU capacity of IC.
And a final thought - - - how are the stock factory cast pistons going to stand up to the power increases from the forthcoming EVO IC's? I know some of you serious racers already experienced failures. As you start to edge ever closer to that 200 BHP/litre figure you really need to begin to look at fairly exotic modifications to maintain good reliability.
And a final thought - - - how are the stock factory cast pistons going to stand up to the power increases from the forthcoming EVO IC's? I know some of you serious racers already experienced failures. As you start to edge ever closer to that 200 BHP/litre figure you really need to begin to look at fairly exotic modifications to maintain good reliability.
skratch, if u recall years ago i went a similar route...a larger h/e with a secondary h/e with twin spal fans into a large trunk reservoir. i found and reported that it really was no better than a single larger h/e because of the limitations of our i/c.
i love it when people think out of the box...but save your money on this one.
12-21-2011, 07:22 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
Well my setup is not split yet so ill be doing the bmw res and will add the front small heatexchanger since i already have it.
What got me thinking to do this was my temps with cold weather.
Even if its 20 deg out once the car is fully warmed up i cant get them near 30-35 and they stay around 40-50 ish.this is from the heat of the stock setup transfering over.with the car cold i can have the temps within a few deg ambient and this is without engaging the blower.
Ill report back on how the temps are once the car is fully warmed up.
What got me thinking to do this was my temps with cold weather.
Even if its 20 deg out once the car is fully warmed up i cant get them near 30-35 and they stay around 40-50 ish.this is from the heat of the stock setup transfering over.with the car cold i can have the temps within a few deg ambient and this is without engaging the blower.
Ill report back on how the temps are once the car is fully warmed up.
12-21-2011, 10:06 PM
#29
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2005 E55 AMG
The limitation is still the BTU capacity of the intercooler. A heat exchanger twice the size will make no difference. The over-sized heat exchangers and high capacity pumps which are now extensively in use either match or exceed capacity of the factory intercooler. Chilled water from a reservoir increases the temperature differential over the OAT and is helpful. The engine thinks it's wintertime, but you're still stuck with the BTU limitations. The SLR's and forthcoming Evo top mounts bear this out. The TD between the IAT and OAT is a constant relative to the latent heat of compression. Ergo we observe the 113's increase power the colder the OAT becomes. In other words, if a particular heat exchanger lowers the coolant temperature to the OAT you would be at 100% efficiency and from what I gather, the various higher capacity HE's and pumps are about there. But, again kids, it's the BTU capacity of IC.
And a final thought - - - how are the stock factory cast pistons going to stand up to the power increases from the forthcoming EVO IC's? I know some of you serious racers already experienced failures. As you start to edge ever closer to that 200 BHP/litre figure you really need to begin to look at fairly exotic modifications to maintain good reliability.
And a final thought - - - how are the stock factory cast pistons going to stand up to the power increases from the forthcoming EVO IC's? I know some of you serious racers already experienced failures. As you start to edge ever closer to that 200 BHP/litre figure you really need to begin to look at fairly exotic modifications to maintain good reliability.
I haven't bothered at all with any cooling mods to my car ( except the EC heat exchanger ) because I want to wait for people to come out with larger intercoolers before doing anything. I strongly believe this is the ONLY thing holding an E55 from going to 600whp on the same setup people are getting 520-530whp from.
FAR better flow, better cooling and a more aggressive tune. I see that SLR's are running over 20psi to get big numbers and their SC's are probably spinning near the same rpms as someone with a 190mm pulley. The difference is that their intercoolers probably don't drop boost nearly as much as ours do.
12-21-2011, 10:20 PM
#31
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Thread Starter
What does the IC under the blower look like on an slr? and does anyone know if that setup runs split cooling from the engine coolant?
GTR are you saying my temps wont drop from splitting the system and running a bigger res wont help the temps out?
Then why do people split the cooling and run 10c fan mods and use lower T stats? getting that coolant colder getting into the blower has to help out somewhat no?
The only reason I am adding a bigger 7 series res and another smaller heatexchanger in the front is to add volume because of what Iv read about the spilt system not having as much coolant as the stock setup and it would hurt temps.
Loco told me and was right that my temps would go up when I setup the stock system to run the pump all the time.he told me in pm to split the system and the temps will drop big time with the pump running all the time.
I dont know what to say as some say its not worth it and others have proven track records of what they tried and know what works and what dosnt
GTR are you saying my temps wont drop from splitting the system and running a bigger res wont help the temps out?
Then why do people split the cooling and run 10c fan mods and use lower T stats? getting that coolant colder getting into the blower has to help out somewhat no?
The only reason I am adding a bigger 7 series res and another smaller heatexchanger in the front is to add volume because of what Iv read about the spilt system not having as much coolant as the stock setup and it would hurt temps.
Loco told me and was right that my temps would go up when I setup the stock system to run the pump all the time.he told me in pm to split the system and the temps will drop big time with the pump running all the time.
I dont know what to say as some say its not worth it and others have proven track records of what they tried and know what works and what dosnt
But your cooling ideas =
12-21-2011, 10:27 PM
#34
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Thread Starter
I was thinking to get a carbon hood made and in the middle where the blower would be have AMG cut into the hood to let the air out.
Did you ever find out how much a mold would really cost?I can set you up with my guy but I dont think you want to pay 7k to get a mold made lol.
Injection molding is NOT cheap
Did you ever find out how much a mold would really cost?I can set you up with my guy but I dont think you want to pay 7k to get a mold made lol.
Injection molding is NOT cheap
12-21-2011, 10:27 PM
#35
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2005 E55 AMG
GTR are you saying my temps wont drop from splitting the system and running a bigger res wont help the temps out?
Then why do people split the cooling and run 10c fan mods and use lower T stats? getting that coolant colder getting into the blower has to help out somewhat no?
Then why do people split the cooling and run 10c fan mods and use lower T stats? getting that coolant colder getting into the blower has to help out somewhat no?
12-21-2011, 10:37 PM
#37
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Thread Starter
What got me thinking to do this was driving the car in temps under 15d out.The car was cold as hell and I watched the aits start to creep as the car would get warmer.With the car cold I say the aits in the low 20s and even hit 19 for a second driving around warming up the car.
I got on boost for a few seconds and the aits hit about 40-45 and then again and the highest I saw was about 75 on a full wot blast.Now after cruising for about 10 min with the pump on and it being cold out I could not get the temps under 37-38 and I pulled over and the blower was cold as ice.When the car was cold(coolant under 100)it would read lower and I think the stock setup is transfering heat over and keeping the temps from going under 37d.
I mean I drove it on the highway and maybe saw 35d for a split second and it stayed right around 37-38 mark.
Now if I split the cooling and my temps get closer to ambient(like 18-22) in the same low temps then that means the car is fighting itself to get under 40d intake air temps.
12-21-2011, 10:45 PM
#38
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2004 E55, 1997 E320 "Sold"
I was thinking to get a carbon hood made and in the middle where the blower would be have AMG cut into the hood to let the air out.
Did you ever find out how much a mold would really cost?I can set you up with my guy but I dont think you want to pay 7k to get a mold made lol.
Injection molding is NOT cheap
Did you ever find out how much a mold would really cost?I can set you up with my guy but I dont think you want to pay 7k to get a mold made lol.
Injection molding is NOT cheap
The mold was only $300 for the same process your talking about. They really do aim to please!
12-23-2011, 06:13 PM
#41
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SRT-6
I have done a few different things to my SRT-6 so I hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in here. My data comes from 20 minute track sessions as well as daily driving. Currently, I have a 1 gallon radiator as a heat exchanger 1" in front of the radiator and the stock 1 liter heat exchanger bolted to the bottom of the bumper support. The flow is out from the intercooler, in to the gallon radiator, out to the stock H/E, in to the STOCK I/C pump and in to the I/C. The extra capacity means it takes longer to settle at 20º more or less, above ambient. Max IAT's remain the same at the track. It takes longer to reach them and it cools down quicker but I see 180º at 140 mph, under braking to 45 mph they fall to 135 or 140º. It takes a cool down lap to drop to 120º. (Ambient 90º or higher) I also see ECT's around 235º on the track and 204º on the street. I had a suggestion given to me I'd like to share. Build a baffle to direct the post radiator air to underneath the car. The heated air that passes through the radiator blows on the supercharger. My next project is to seal the 1 gallon H/E to the radiator so the fan can't pull air through the gaps and put in a 3000 cfm fan. The baffle is under investigation.
Les
Les
Les
Les
12-24-2011, 11:04 AM
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Well I did a little testing and ran it with the bigger res and and got an engine coolant code for being to cold.
Thats a good thing haha
I drove the car hard and never saw over 180 on my engine coolant temps
Thats a good thing haha
I drove the car hard and never saw over 180 on my engine coolant temps
12-24-2011, 09:17 PM
#43
The larger reservoir will not trigger the "coolant too cold" message. That was most likely due to your colder thermostat, and/or if you tripped the radiator fan at a low coolant temp. Keep up the good work.
02-26-2012, 02:15 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Anymore data or experience ? I am wondering why the H/E coolant is NOT dedicated from the factory (as it would seem to be ~180 degrees once the engine is warm). I was thinking that just using the stock H/E and a dedicated reservoir would help immensely and be relatively cheap. I cannot understand why folks would just replace the front h/e and pump, but still keep the system combined with the engine coolant.
Last edited by cij911; 02-26-2012 at 04:02 PM.
03-01-2012, 09:27 AM
#45
MBWorld Fanatic!
What do you think about just using an OEM replacement coolant reservoir (find the one that fits and is large) ? I think it could look very OEM. Thoughts ?
03-01-2012, 12:03 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
an oem one would looks nice and it could easily be done but Im not sure how much room you got for one.
you could put it where tbal put his but you would loose the cabin filter.
03-01-2012, 07:46 PM
#48
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Viper SRT-10, CLS 55 AMG, 2012 Tacoma Off Road 4x4
+1 on that hood! Looks sooooo nasty!!!!! I have a carbon fiber hood on my viper and the problem with a carbon hood is they turn yellow and do not hold up very well with the heat...
03-01-2012, 10:34 PM
#49
Some hoods. If you do something like a VIS 4 layer hood they are awesome. I had one on a turbo nissan 240SX with a giant turbo literally right under the bonnet and had no issues for over 4 years with it. Carbon fiber stuff is very much dependent on the quality of the manufacture.
03-01-2012, 10:41 PM
#50
Former Vendor of MBWorld
You are spot on... A wing was next.
