My clean block, new pulley, new headers and 850HP
02-08-2012, 08:19 PM
#26
It'll probably be okay to 1100+ HP with the smaller bores these engines have.
Do you know if the block is the same for the 55 supercharged engines and for the 55 NA engines ? I want to start collecting parts for a build and don't know if I should just buy a pullout from a wreck or just get a bare new block.
Do you know if the block is the same for the 55 supercharged engines and for the 55 NA engines ? I want to start collecting parts for a build and don't know if I should just buy a pullout from a wreck or just get a bare new block.
02-08-2012, 08:46 PM
#27
Out Of Control!!
What size are the factory head bolts, or are they studs? Your def gonna want some high quality studs and depending on the size look into having the block/heads machined to accept a bigger stud. 4 studs per cylinder plus big boost can lead to pushing water. Wondering if you've considered that aspect and what you've found?
NA 55 and 55k share the same bare short block. Good luck with your build, love it when people tear into their benzes!!!
02-08-2012, 10:02 PM
#28
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05 White Pano E55, Cadillac CTS-V
What size are the factory head bolts, or are they studs? Your def gonna want some high quality studs and depending on the size look into having the block/heads machined to accept a bigger stud. 4 studs per cylinder plus big boost can lead to pushing water. Wondering if you've considered that aspect and what you've found?
02-08-2012, 10:28 PM
#29
The problem with lifting cylinder heads under extremely high cylinder pressures becomes more apparent the larger the bore of the engine. It has to so with mechanical leverage being lost the further apart the bolts that provide the clamping force are.
It is much harder to bend a cylinder head between bores with let's say a K series Honda engine with an 86 mm bore versus a GM V8 LS1-9 with bores in the 101-104 mm range. This is why the bigger bore engines that came with a 4 bolt/cyl design such as the Buick GN 3.8 and the LS series of GMs have aftermarket blocks available with extra head bolts at the 12 and 6 o clock position of the cylinder.
It is much harder to bend a cylinder head between bores with let's say a K series Honda engine with an 86 mm bore versus a GM V8 LS1-9 with bores in the 101-104 mm range. This is why the bigger bore engines that came with a 4 bolt/cyl design such as the Buick GN 3.8 and the LS series of GMs have aftermarket blocks available with extra head bolts at the 12 and 6 o clock position of the cylinder.
Why do you say this? My Audi only has 10mm head bolts (4 per cylinder, never seen more than that) and used OEM for a few years, then one day just decided to swap in ARP and it runs 28-30psi as the daily boost making around 125hp per cylinder and so do tons of others with nobody ever having a problem of head lifting. Curious why you think the E55 would lift the head?
02-08-2012, 11:57 PM
#30
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03 E55 AMG, 06 Harley Road King Custom 06 Ram 2500 Cummins, 97 Firebird Race Car, 88 Cutlass Supreme
What he said ^ I'm coming from the muscle car/big V8 world. Trying to soak up whatever knowledge I can on these kompressor motors and throwing what I've learned over the years out where I think it might apply and help someone. Other then my turbodiesel and a junk old Thunderbird Turbo Coupe my only experience with a boosted gas motor was the build for my old 99 camaro. GM LQ9 iron 6.0L truck block with a forged rotating assembly with GM factory casting heads with some upgrades done. It was a procharger build setup for around 900 hp with a small nitrous shot in the mix. The GM LS series motors have the 4 bolt per cylinder and had issues with lifting heads around 750HP even with ARP head studs. Some aftermarket heads with thicker decks were better but a number of people pushing big boost were upgrading to bigger studs. Stock sizes studs were a given on any of these motors being built to build some real power. ~550+ hp you were seeing people go to studs regularly.
As was said though the bores were bigger there. I don't think anyone mentioned what size the factory bolts are for these 55K's guessing they're decently beefy to hold the power they have been. Are the head gaskets MLS?
As was said though the bores were bigger there. I don't think anyone mentioned what size the factory bolts are for these 55K's guessing they're decently beefy to hold the power they have been. Are the head gaskets MLS?
02-09-2012, 07:44 AM
#33
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Dirt Scooters
What he said ^ I'm coming from the muscle car/big V8 world. Trying to soak up whatever knowledge I can on these kompressor motors and throwing what I've learned over the years out where I think it might apply and help someone. Other then my turbodiesel and a junk old Thunderbird Turbo Coupe my only experience with a boosted gas motor was the build for my old 99 camaro. GM LQ9 iron 6.0L truck block with a forged rotating assembly with GM factory casting heads with some upgrades done. It was a procharger build setup for around 900 hp with a small nitrous shot in the mix. The GM LS series motors have the 4 bolt per cylinder and had issues with lifting heads around 750HP even with ARP head studs. Some aftermarket heads with thicker decks were better but a number of people pushing big boost were upgrading to bigger studs. Stock sizes studs were a given on any of these motors being built to build some real power. ~550+ hp you were seeing people go to studs regularly.
As was said though the bores were bigger there. I don't think anyone mentioned what size the factory bolts are for these 55K's guessing they're decently beefy to hold the power they have been. Are the head gaskets MLS?
As was said though the bores were bigger there. I don't think anyone mentioned what size the factory bolts are for these 55K's guessing they're decently beefy to hold the power they have been. Are the head gaskets MLS?
02-09-2012, 07:58 AM
#34
Out Of Control!!
I'm in the process of talking to ARP now about getting head studs but they want a bunch of info/pictures/specs and actually asked if i could send them a head so its not looking good. The problem is the top bolts good down thru the head a good 4 inches and the hole they fit thru is slightly larger than the head bolt. And to those that said you can't lift a head you are wrong. I had a cooling problem off and on and finally figured out it was lifting the head, Remember it only takes a few thousandths of lift to cause a problem.
02-09-2012, 08:52 AM
#35
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E-ZGO 53hp., 1999 E 430 sport, 2004 E 55, 2008 Tahoe LTZ on 24"s
An open deck block that is going to be sleeved, presents it's own challenges.
We have had success with o-rings.
http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/org.php
We have had success with o-rings.
http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/org.php
02-09-2012, 08:59 AM
#36
Out Of Control!!
An open deck block that is going to be sleeved, presents it's own challenges.
We have had success with o-rings.
http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/org.php
We have had success with o-rings.
http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/org.php
02-09-2012, 01:38 PM
#38
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02-10-2012, 10:55 AM
#41
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Dirt Scooters
An open deck block that is going to be sleeved, presents it's own challenges.
We have had success with o-rings.
http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/org.php
We have had success with o-rings.
http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_conte...ooling/org.php
02-10-2012, 02:40 PM
#42
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E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
ARP is 30 minutes away from where I live so if there is anything I can do to help coordinate, I'd be happy to. I'm likely going to do a set a heads in a few months so this was something I was going to pursue with them anyway. But if I can help ahead of that, I'd be happy to...Maybe Shardul can lend me a stock head given his empire of broken blocks.
I swear by ARP products and have used them on every domestic build I have ever had and I have done quite a few and made good power without any issues. They are the best hands down.
Blackbenzz since you are the guru on MB motors, do you know what other motors have our heads and short block minus the pistons. I'm thinking of instead of doing the dartons simply swapping out to forged Mahle's on a low mileage short block...I think the N/A 55 motors (M113's) are virtually the same except the pistons and cams. Is this correct?
I swear by ARP products and have used them on every domestic build I have ever had and I have done quite a few and made good power without any issues. They are the best hands down.
Blackbenzz since you are the guru on MB motors, do you know what other motors have our heads and short block minus the pistons. I'm thinking of instead of doing the dartons simply swapping out to forged Mahle's on a low mileage short block...I think the N/A 55 motors (M113's) are virtually the same except the pistons and cams. Is this correct?
02-10-2012, 02:53 PM
#43
Out Of Control!!
ARP is 30 minutes away from where I live so if there is anything I can do to help coordinate, I'd be happy to. I'm likely going to do a set a heads in a few months so this was something I was going to pursue with them anyway. But if I can help ahead of that, I'd be happy to...Maybe Shardul can lend me a stock head given his empire of broken blocks.
I swear by ARP products and have used them on every domestic build I have ever had and I have done quite a few and made good power without any issues. They are the best hands down.
Blackbenzz since you are the guru on MB motors, do you know what other motors have our heads and short block minus the pistons. I'm thinking of instead of doing the dartons simply swapping out to forged Mahle's on a low mileage short block...I think the N/A 55 motors (M113's) are virtually the same except the pistons and cams. Is this correct?
I swear by ARP products and have used them on every domestic build I have ever had and I have done quite a few and made good power without any issues. They are the best hands down.
Blackbenzz since you are the guru on MB motors, do you know what other motors have our heads and short block minus the pistons. I'm thinking of instead of doing the dartons simply swapping out to forged Mahle's on a low mileage short block...I think the N/A 55 motors (M113's) are virtually the same except the pistons and cams. Is this correct?
The bare short block itself is the same on the 55s. Heads are a bit different as well as cams and internals. The timing chain covers are also different and so are the oil pans. Let me know if I can help in any way
02-10-2012, 06:05 PM
#44
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2007 E63 AMG, 1991 NSX, 2007 Corvette
Only a big monster like this could be happening in the big State of Texas !!
Once you fire that beast up, if the wind is blowing just right, we might be able to hear it here in Atl !!!
Can't wait for you to post the results. Good Luck.
Once you fire that beast up, if the wind is blowing just right, we might be able to hear it here in Atl !!!
Can't wait for you to post the results. Good Luck.
02-10-2012, 06:48 PM
#45
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'04 E55 AMG
heres another company that may produce head studs for you guys
http://www.a1technologies.com/index_flash.php
http://www.a1technologies.com/index_flash.php
02-11-2012, 10:33 AM
#49
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Thread Starter
It seems friends always need one these days. Paying 7-8K for a high mileage used block is a waste..imo
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
www.ultimatepd.com
instagram @ultimate_pd
facebook.com/ultimatepd
