GT-ER

Keep in mind that superchargers draw a very decent amount of power. While I don't see 600whp being a problem on a supercharged engine with proper fueling and tuning, I can see an easy 80-100whp more with the use of turbochargers instead.

The 55K platform is really in it's infancy, heck, most people don't even know how to work around the fueling system.

e55amgrocket

I think with the weistec kit we will have a better idea of what the bottom ends can take. I think with just better pistons alone they will take 750hp with a good tune and not have any problems. People are making over 1000hp on stock 6.0 lsx short blocks with weaker rods then we have. The mains on these engines look stout and are cross bolted also i believe. In the end it all comes down to the weakest links. TUNE,FUEL,PISTONS. If your tune is off your done. If your tune is on and you have a fuel problem your done. And if everything is good and the piston decides to break your screwed. Pretty soon with built sleeved blocks that will be a thing of the past. I seen you posted about billet pistons but not sure if we would need to go that extreme ( $3000+ a set for custom). Nascar and prostock has used them for years but they will spend $1 million for 1hp. I let my engine guy take a piston to look at and see if there was anything out there close to it and he called me laughing and said he has a piston from a Ford Pinto 2.3L on his shelf and its the same size (3.81 bore)

whipplem104

This is a very valid point. The supercharger is probably consuming somewhere near or over 80hp. But that is going to be crank hp.
As blackbenzz has stated before. The ring lands are thin on these engines. If you look at some of the other engines that have been listed they often have thicker lands. Also the rings are a low tension ring for low friction on the coated cylinder walls. The torque that these engines produce at low rpms is also very hard on an engine. I said this before also. If you are above 75chp per cylinder and driving hard then it is only a matter of time. If you want to go more will the engine hold together, sure. But for how long. Of course it depends driving habits. Just do not be surprised when a piston lets go. I have these same type of pistons in my era engines which are actually more robust than the 55. I have cracked a few. On a solid tune. It is just time. One time the lands did not crack off but just bent over and pinched the rings in place and it started drinking oil.
I think that if you are looking for a bottom end point that will fail in a day or two of racing you could maybe get 100 per cylinder.
Someone with an extra engine laying around should put some juice on and strap it to a dyno and just keep increasing until it lets go. Quick and easy way to find out.

Exotic-metal55

These engines are strong and I feel 650 is not an issue on stock bottom end. Even much higher than that, but again tuning the engine to be safe and nowing how to address heat. The tune is going to be the key.. That means timing under 20 deg.,,, Richer AFR and keep the IAT`s looooow. Hyper are very strong pistons,, as far as tensil strenght goes.. They just crack into peices,, when things go wrong VS melt like forged do.

I have cut the hyper in half and they have very thick domes as well. My concern is heat on the ring lands,, and that goes back to keeping a well tuned engine. Stock ring gap is .014 and that is tight for a big hp engine and makes it harder for the second ring land to get rid of the pressure and heat as easy. If this all makes sense? My forged pistons will have much wider gap and be more in the .025 range.

Ethy is damn good stuff and cools like a mo fo!! It adds a lot of room for margin of error as well. Once you understand it,, you will love it! Engine stays clean , dont have to worry about carbon build up on pistons , valves that can detonate ..

W109 W211 6.2L

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daxjStUsxAM

I think this guy has your mod list setup and he is racing an M3 looks to be in Sweden or Scandiavia. I actually enjoy this style of racing. I see Skratch777 called the guy out but Swedes no there Sh*t when it comes to working with blown motors.

Full modlist on the E55 AMG:

Custom 184 mm pulley
Custom 90 mm trottel body
Custom"Y" pipte to throttlehouse
Kleeman headers
3" down pipe
3" exhaust with x-pipe
Front cats deleted
Rear cats are racecats

Changed for E85-fuelsystem:
Larger fuelpumps

HKS fuelpressureregulator
Mapped for E85

CM 090 Johnson cirk. pumpfor intercooler
Custom heatexchanger
Larger intercoolerpipes
Kleemann cams
Ported supercharger
Kleeman diff
Reinforced automatic gearbox
converter (raised stallspeed)
Additional oilcooler for automatic gearbox
Software for AMG 65 for removing the torquelimitation

chawkins2001

Damn, that is a stout setup. Looks like he did not go into the motor at all with his build.

Brooke you said it just right brotha, lots of cooling with e85, could make for a happy motor with a good tune.

Do you think adding meth on top of the e85 is overkill, I mean not in terms of looking for more timing or power, but just the cooling aspects. I was going to add a 50 shot for cooling, but have since scratched the idea for fear of it been to much for the bottom end with the E85. The kit is jetted for a 50 hit, but hits 50% harder to I would have been looking at 75rwhp on top of the e85.

Since I have the kit, I am going to be swapping out the jet size for a 25-30HP hit, which will still make a stout 40-50rwhp gain. But for now, that sauce will not go on the car until I can get the E85 all setup and see where I am.

pearlpower

Why not go with a Killer Chiller setup? Cobra boys run them successfully and the feedback one the few E55s has been positive.

chawkins2001

Are you close to completing yours homey? I love the killer chiller, I just did not want to pay over $1000 from a forum member for it. You can get them from Kincaid for half that, it is just not a direct bolt on.

Let me know if you picked one up, and how your install is coming along

unagi1

Sounds like you've done quite a bit of work on the engine...congrats! Any idea on how much the race heads got you overall, with the same size pulley? Always wondered how well the stock head flowed on these engines. What kind of IATs are you seeing with all the cooling upgrades?

pearlpower

I hear you on that, mine is custom as well, no MB tax. Will post up when completed, just been so busy, kids, work, lazy, etc.

e500slr

The ECU problem keeps coming up, it's so sad that others can run standalones with much better tuning options and for flexibility. Why hasn't anyone done a standalone to a 55k?

chawkins2001

Now that peeps have started to bring this to our attention, the ECU could be another weak link in tuning these beasts?

Has anyone tried to run a standalone, and can it even be done?

blackbenzz

Anything can be done with enough money

Malones Perf.

It's not so much that it can't be done, I remeber a few years ago when I was into my E55 and the build that I came across some European boards of one shop that had installed a stand alone and it worked out. I know the biggest issue was getting the transmission to continue working correctl because it uses valuable information from the ME. Check out www.motec.com I know thats who's engine management they used. You just have to look at the pro's and con's. Your Transmission and software will work im sure with some work but ESP, SBC will no longer function the way it was intended to along with most of your instrumentations and readings. Part of its due to the CAN network but even more of it is because of the way they've wired it up and utilize the CAN setup makes it diffucult to break one part of it away and have everything else harmonize. Maybe someone else on here has some more experiance or seen it done on a 211. If I remeber right I think there was a few 203 chassis members running either a motec or pectel setup

W109 W211 6.2L

And thats the answer I was waiting for. Chawkins I truly appreciate your "gotta make it happen" it for the Benz community and power mods. The electronics on these cars is just insane!

Mercedes uses the most computers per car than any other car maker. I believe if this exact mechanical setup was used on a GT500 or any American or Japenses automaker this might be easier but with Mercedes Benz its always been like this.

The electronic nanny setup is just too over the top. I am very interested to see if you can make it around the electronics and sustain all the safety features and functioning technology. If you can, you would be a pioneer in the US market........

whipplem104

The problem of running standalone is that you can not remove the stock ME and have everything else work. The standalone would have to communicate on the CAN but the correct info. It could be done if someone did the programming for a capable ecu to receive and transmit the correct messages on CAN. The ecu operates on a torque calculation platform. These calculated torque values are then transmitted on the CAN bus to the tcu for shift timing and firmness. You could piggy back the ecu but then the factory ecu would still be making torque calculations based on the inputs, engine rpm, boost etc. As you run into road blocks in the ecu for torque and plausibility. The big problem is the transmission does not work properly. I run 722.6 in full standalone applications so if you go full standalone engine and transmission and put in a different cluster and dump traction control and sbc then sure.

chawkins2001

The thing is, some of the garbage on the E55 in terms of safety features and creature comforts, I have already done away with, but that is the exact reason why many fella's buy this car. It has a bad attitude along with creature comforts that would make a virgin all happy down south, like pulse seats, ventilated seats, dynamic seats etc etc...

So what suites me, would not suite 90% of the folks on here, case and point, my race seats. I constantly have the SRS light on due to the factory seats been pulled, and the air blowing out the hose for my ventilated seats which are no longer there.

Next light that blinds me, is the ABS light, as I like to cruise in dyno mode, whether on the street or strip, got to have the trigger loaded at all times fella's All I am after is a super quick E55, but at the same time you dont want a hack job down to the ECU, since I am learning it runs so much in the car that I was not aware of.

I just know nothing about the ECU and it's hold backs, but Tony @ BIP and my homey Adam at Malones Perf. know their shiz like no other, and I am lucky enough to have them local.

Probably the best thing to do at this point, it to sleeve the block and drop in Mahle; JE; Manley etc. pistons. That would lower comp, get more clearance between piston and wall, and have peace of mind.

With that setup in place, I dont see why the rest of the stock bottom end could be retained, and have a stout motor. E85 + 50 shot of sauce could be used

W109 W211 6.2L

Or just move on to a 65series although more expensive to maintain the idea has crossed my mind several times. As I am sure yours ......

That 6l Biturbo WHOA!

These mods in theory I would love to see happen but the problem you run into cost effective. If you truely love the car and are gonna be the last owner go for it, i would love to see it happen. Otherwise for 30-40K you can snag a CL65 that with a Renntech tune and a couple other light mods is almost untouchable on the street in fulltrim. Full panty wet comfort trim!

Thats why I think Weistec at $16k + install is just not worth it. $20k will go a long way towards a nice 65 Series

BRABUS786

I think 25-50 shot is the answer from previous experience .............

Acid

vietjdmboi

why would you want to lower the compression? you will have to run more boost just to make the same amount of power as before.

whipplem104

Yeah if you are going to drop all the other systems and build a race car then you can do what ever you want. The rods and crank are forged. Put standalone transmission control in and build an engine.

Just fyi on driving in dyno mode. SBC goes into a neutral brake balance when you are in dyno mode. Under heavy braking the rear tires lock up. Not very safe.

I think the point made about clearance is an important one. Even if things are strong if the rings stick from heat and a tight gap they will break the lands off. Ring flutter is bad.
There is a big difference in setup for long duration at load. Race engines for track often have twice or more the gap as a street strip engine. I built a rally engine a couple of years ago and it was hard to come to grips with the gap being so big. But if you are full throttle for a long time then you need the clearance.

chawkins2001

Dyno mode is only used for heavy burnouts, as the 06 model cuts power when you try to burnout with the TC turned off in the cabin.

From what it sounds like, the motor is stout if you address the heat issue, which I feel will be covered with E85 and meth or killer chiller or all three, and a solid safe tune in place, which will be covered by my man Tony.

I am shooting for 600rwhp on E85, so I guess time will tell how long it lasts and how fast I can go