Need help on finding forged pistons
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
They would still work but, if you do an iron sleeve or Nikasil coating on the bores, you could use a less expensive domestically produced forged piston. You won't need the coating on the piston that the ones for an Alusil bore require.
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05 ML-500 , 03 CLK5.5 AMG has left the Garage
Pistons
Great Question. The Mahle ring package will work . I've got 3 engines out there since 05 running with 1 or 2 steel sleeves . I do not have any long term use or hi mileage data tear down inspections as of yet . But I suspect I will not see any issues
Cheers _PTEngineering
Cheers _PTEngineering
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Mercedes
How will I know which ones will fit? What diameter and skirt height etc will I need. I guess I am just looking for a standard, forged, uncoated piston that will work in my sleeved block. Preferably one that won't take a really long time to get. Thanks for responses so far.
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From: Porter Ranch, CA
E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
Both JE and Wiseco have the M113 designs based on building them for other customers so I would start with them. Mahle could do it too, however they will be more expensive as BlownV8 described.
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From: Porter Ranch, CA
E55, CTS-V Wagon, Duc 1098R
Pat, could you elaborate on 1 or 2 steel sleeves. Do you mean specific to the bore or specific to the side of the motor. Never seen mixing and matching if that is what you are describing...
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2003 CL55
There are a lot of pistons that will fit or be made to fit but not many desinged to perform to their best. The Mahle are damn fine set of pistons and proven to perform great! My first set of Wisecos were run hard for 30K , were forged and improved over stock. I had to run rod shims , as most aftermarket piston MFG dies wont work for our top driven engines. Shims were fine and used all the time but Mahle`s fit exact. The New wisecos were desinged off my 30,000 miles of use/test and are desinged exactly for our engine now and higher boost. Also, Wiseco and JE are sister companies and thier forging`s are private labelled for many of the brands people buy.So I hear.
I have a set of wisecos coming for my back up motor with Nickasil bore. Mahle`s are in my new engine that IK hope to have in soon, until the new steel sleeves are desinged and made for our engine.
Steel sleeves are a whole other topic and may I say argument
In short, one method is ok for 550hp ish, one for up to 800 hp ish and one for above that. "Generally speaking". Also a matter of opinion.
I have a set of wisecos coming for my back up motor with Nickasil bore. Mahle`s are in my new engine that IK hope to have in soon, until the new steel sleeves are desinged and made for our engine.
Steel sleeves are a whole other topic and may I say argument
In short, one method is ok for 550hp ish, one for up to 800 hp ish and one for above that. "Generally speaking". Also a matter of opinion.
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E63 Biturbo, UPD Cold Air induction kit, UPD performance crank pulley and UPD adjustable rear suspension with ride height adjustment.
CL55 UPD Cold Air Boost kit, UPD 3000 stall converter, UPD 77mm SC clutched pulley and beltwrap kit, Custom long tubes, UPD crank pulley , UPD suspension kit, UPD SC pulley, Aux. HE, Trunk tank w/rule 2000 pump, Mezeire pump, UPD 5pc idler set, Aluminum rotor hats.
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2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
I don't know if a sleeve block on the 55k M113 engine has really panned out. One of the bigger weaknesses if this block is its an open deck design. granted there are some advantages to an open deck design. like weight and casting cost for the mfg. Its not 100% what you want for a very high HP car. Even with steel sleeves there is nothing supporting the outer walls of the cylinders and you still have an open deck block.
IMO I think this is why a supercharger upgrade for these cars is a massive undertaking to say the least. Where its not so much worrying about how you would tune it, fuel system upgrades.. But more on how the major increase in power would cause defection of the cylinders. You can have the best sleeves or best pistons in your car, but if there is nothing supporting the outer walls of your cylinders you will be limited I would think.
IMO I think this is why a supercharger upgrade for these cars is a massive undertaking to say the least. Where its not so much worrying about how you would tune it, fuel system upgrades.. But more on how the major increase in power would cause defection of the cylinders. You can have the best sleeves or best pistons in your car, but if there is nothing supporting the outer walls of your cylinders you will be limited I would think.
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From: Florida-Germany-New York
2004 E55,1969 300SEL6.3,2011 ML350 BlueTec Diesel,2005 ML400 CDI
One thing to remember about American made pistons. The blanks that they use are mostly designed around the typical American Con Rods. Which have a large Nice wide small end , to support a Wrist pin that is pressed in or lightly heated to drop the pin in place . and the pin floats in bore of the piston. The rod alignment is kept in spec to the cylinder bore center by its precise placement on the rod journal , which may be shared with another con rod. So there must be tons of piston to rod side clearance in the wrist pin bore / well area . So If you use that Wiseco , JE or other US built piston , you may have to do an extra step in the assy and add in hardened steel side shims, to get the rod properly aligned to the crank journal.
The M-113K block has alusil sleeves that are precision placed & cast into the Block. It uses a piston that is designed to control the con rod alignment , to the crank Journal , Commonly known as a ,top guided rod Piston. Mahle Builds the OEM cast & Forged for Mercedes. It is designed to work with the top guided rod. The wrist pin well area is machined to handle the rod placement without having to shim its placement.
As far as oversized to the stock sleeve ,you are limited to 0,25 mm or 0.010 "
I've been using Malhe pistons for over 40 years . I try other manufactures piston , but end up back with Mahle
Cheers _PTEngineering
The M-113K block has alusil sleeves that are precision placed & cast into the Block. It uses a piston that is designed to control the con rod alignment , to the crank Journal , Commonly known as a ,top guided rod Piston. Mahle Builds the OEM cast & Forged for Mercedes. It is designed to work with the top guided rod. The wrist pin well area is machined to handle the rod placement without having to shim its placement.
As far as oversized to the stock sleeve ,you are limited to 0,25 mm or 0.010 "
I've been using Malhe pistons for over 40 years . I try other manufactures piston , but end up back with Mahle
Cheers _PTEngineering
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From: Northern Va
Dirt Scooters
There are a lot of pistons that will fit or be made to fit but not many desinged to perform to their best. The Mahle are damn fine set of pistons and proven to perform great! My first set of Wisecos were run hard for 30K , were forged and improved over stock. I had to run rod shims , as most aftermarket piston MFG dies wont work for our top driven engines. Shims were fine and used all the time but Mahle`s fit exact. The New wisecos were desinged off my 30,000 miles of use/test and are desinged exactly for our engine now and higher boost. Also, Wiseco and JE are sister companies and thier forging`s are private labelled for many of the brands people buy.So I hear.
I have a set of wisecos coming for my back up motor with Nickasil bore. Mahle`s are in my new engine that IK hope to have in soon, until the new steel sleeves are desinged and made for our engine.
Steel sleeves are a whole other topic and may I say argument In short, one method is ok for 550hp ish, one for up to 800 hp ish and one for above that. "Generally speaking". Also a matter of opinion.
I have a set of wisecos coming for my back up motor with Nickasil bore. Mahle`s are in my new engine that IK hope to have in soon, until the new steel sleeves are desinged and made for our engine.
Steel sleeves are a whole other topic and may I say argument
In short, one method is ok for 550hp ish, one for up to 800 hp ish and one for above that. "Generally speaking". Also a matter of opinion.
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Mercedes
So I'm wondering if I should just get my walls machined and nickisil coated. Are there any cons to nickisil. If I went this route, would that mean I could drop in pretty much any of these pistons?
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From: West
E55 AMG
I don't know if a sleeve block on the 55k M113 engine has really panned out. One of the bigger weaknesses if this block is its an open deck design. granted there are some advantages to an open deck design. like weight and casting cost for the mfg. Its not 100% what you want for a very high HP car. Even with steel sleeves there is nothing supporting the outer walls of the cylinders and you still have an open deck block.
IMO I think this is why a supercharger upgrade for these cars is a massive undertaking to say the least. Where its not so much worrying about how you would tune it, fuel system upgrades.. But more on how the major increase in power would cause defection of the cylinders. You can have the best sleeves or best pistons in your car, but if there is nothing supporting the outer walls of your cylinders you will be limited I would think.
IMO I think this is why a supercharger upgrade for these cars is a massive undertaking to say the least. Where its not so much worrying about how you would tune it, fuel system upgrades.. But more on how the major increase in power would cause defection of the cylinders. You can have the best sleeves or best pistons in your car, but if there is nothing supporting the outer walls of your cylinders you will be limited I would think.
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From: Australia
CLK63, CLK 55 kleemann, Nissan GTR N1
I advise you to use Mahle pistons for the simple reason that Mahle are very experienced in designing pistons and understand well the thermal expansion characteristics of mercedes engines.
My mistake was using CP forged pistons in my 55 Kleemann engine. The pistons rattled badly until the engine temperature reached 80 deg C which is totally unacceptable for a road car. The car is now powered by an AMG55 kompressor engine and the kleemann engine will get a new set of Mahle pistons some day.
My mistake was using CP forged pistons in my 55 Kleemann engine. The pistons rattled badly until the engine temperature reached 80 deg C which is totally unacceptable for a road car. The car is now powered by an AMG55 kompressor engine and the kleemann engine will get a new set of Mahle pistons some day.
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From: Clifton, NJ
96 and 08 911 turbos
I advise you to use Mahle pistons for the simple reason that Mahle are very experienced in designing pistons and understand well the thermal expansion characteristics of mercedes engines.
My mistake was using CP forged pistons in my 55 Kleemann engine. The pistons rattled badly until the engine temperature reached 80 deg C which is totally unacceptable for a road car. The car is now powered by an AMG55 kompressor engine and the kleemann engine will get a new set of Mahle pistons some day.
My mistake was using CP forged pistons in my 55 Kleemann engine. The pistons rattled badly until the engine temperature reached 80 deg C which is totally unacceptable for a road car. The car is now powered by an AMG55 kompressor engine and the kleemann engine will get a new set of Mahle pistons some day.
I had a set of JE pistons in my 700rwhp 4.6L DOHC mustang cobra motor, which had bad piston slap, but my CPs were quiet as stock.
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E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
There is a huge difference between aluminum piston in an iron bore and an aluminum piston in an aluminum bore. Many piston manufacturers know how to make the iron/aluminum combo work but only a few truly know how to make one work in the Alusil bore.
Stick with Mahle or Kolbenschmidt pistons on these engines unless you are going to sleeve or Nicasil cote. You will be much happier with the outcome and the engine will last much longer. Also, make sure you have a qualified machine shop with a Sunnen machine to hone the aluminum bores. The steps for the refinishing the Alusil bore is not at all the same as a standard iron bore.
Stick with Mahle or Kolbenschmidt pistons on these engines unless you are going to sleeve or Nicasil cote. You will be much happier with the outcome and the engine will last much longer. Also, make sure you have a qualified machine shop with a Sunnen machine to hone the aluminum bores. The steps for the refinishing the Alusil bore is not at all the same as a standard iron bore.
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From: Tbilisi, Georgia
2012 CLS63AMG Kleemann K3
