210e55

I am going to be pulling my block to do iron sleeves, and was wondering if anyone has info on forged replacement pistons for these 55k motors. I would like to stick with the stock bore if possible, but may consider going a little bigger. I thought I read on some post that someone sent one of their stock pistons in to JE or something like that, and they measured it and made a set of replacment forged units.

I don't really want to have to send one in and wait for them to measure it and build them if they already have the info on file.

Any help would be appreciated as to what manufacturer may be able to sell me a set quickly.

e55amgrocket

I can send you a stock piston but if your going with sleeves then it will
Be better to over bore it. I'm waiting on darton still but when I get the motor sleeves and bored I can let you know on the pistons I'll be getting and possiy have 2 sets made.

GT-ER

Keep the stock pistons, open up the gap on the rings and report back to us when it hold 800whp.

210e55

Thanks for the offer! I have access to some stock pistons, I just don't want to wait the time to have them measured and made from scratch. Please let me know your findings on your supplier, though. I am definately interested, but I will need to move forward on my motor immediately.

As far as keeping the stock setup, I unfortunately cannot go that route. I just found out that I have several cylinders that have low compression and gouged cylinder walls, so it's crosshatch time!!!

e55amgrocket

I doubt anyone will have the stock style on a shelf.

210e55

Thats what I'm afraid of.

adianaty

Min lead time I've seen was from wiseco and they don't have a sleeved version yet but I was told 4 weeks. I think having your blocked sleeved will take much longer than that but maybe you have an inside track with Darton. Other option is going 20 over with your stock block and buying Mahle's. Lead time on them is 8-10 weeks and the machining of the alusil block can be done pretty quickly. I'd measure the scratches to see if you can make the 20 over work if you are in a hurry.

MBH motorsports

I don't know if a sleeve block on the 55k M113 engine has really panned out. One of the bigger weaknesses if this block is its an open deck design. granted there are some advantages to an open deck design. like weight and casting cost for the mfg. Its not 100% what you want for a very high HP car. Even with steel sleeves there is nothing supporting the outer walls of the cylinders and you still have an open deck block.

IMO I think this is why a supercharger upgrade for these cars is a massive undertaking to say the least. Where its not so much worrying about how you would tune it, fuel system upgrades.. But more on how the major increase in power would cause defection of the cylinders. You can have the best sleeves or best pistons in your car, but if there is nothing supporting the outer walls of your cylinders you will be limited I would think.

GT-ER

Nissan VQ35's are open deck and they can easily handle 600-700whp on the open deck ( I personally know someone that put down 750whp on the open deck and has been doing so for years without issues ). I highly doubt our 5.4L V8 blocks can't handle at least the same amount of power.

S13REMI

this is my first post so ill try and make it a useful one. but i think GT-ER is right. i wouldnt worry about the open deck, we have displacement on our side. i know big power honda guys have issues with this, but they are making 500 wheel on 1.6 and 1.8 liters.What some one developed was a braced that fit around the sleeves. this usually took care of most of the problem if not all of it. i know something like this wouldn't really be feasible in our cars, unless some one wanted to pay big money for some r&d

EDIT: they are called block guards

e55amgrocket

From talking to darton i believe the sleeves will extend into the open portion of the block and just keep the water jackets open still like a closed deck block. The guy i talked didn't seem 100% sure of it but he said thats what he believed the design was. I've got a block just waiting to be dropped off so i hope i know something soon

BlownV8

You can always try a Nikasil coating and use J&E's or whatever pistons you want. If the coating is done right, it will last a very long time.

MBH motorsports

Oh, I'm not saying it can't be done and there are plenty of our engines handling big power. I was kind of going off on a tangent in the second part.

I don find it a bit strange that Mercedes used an open deck block on the 55 M113 supercharged engine. Then ditched the open deck design for the 63 M156 N/A engine. Then now go back to the open deck design for the the 63 M157 TT engine. I'm 100% sure they know more than me.

All I'm really saying is, In my time here I just haven't seen a sleeves MB engine stand the test of time. However it will only be as good as the engineering and person who builds it. So I'm sure there are outfits that can do it, so maybe the ones I've seen where not done well.

210e55

Just heard back from Mahle. Minimum of 10 weeks to get forged, same sizes as oe. Yikes.

adianaty

No surprise there which is what I posted. They do have a 20 over design and the pistons are a lot lighter and more stout from stock.

e55amgrocket

Try diamond. Might cost a little more but they do fast turn around work and very high quality.

ahmad0658

How much does Mahle charge?

BlownV8

I wouldn't use anything other than Mahle or Kolbenschmidt if you keep the alusil bore. Both will be very expensive in a forged piston for this application. I'm thinking around $4,000 for a set.

adianaty

Mahle's are $1980 a set including rings and pins. If you want them let me know. I already helped source a set for a standard bore.

BlownV8

Forged Mahle's? If so, that is a smokin' deal.

adianaty

Yes forged and ready to go for an Alusil bore. It is a good deal considering.

e500slr

I would think a sleeved open deck would be fine I mean it's the piston and rods that go most likely before a block right? A catastrophic rod failure would potentially destroy a block but has anybody actually had their block go?

adianaty

Rod's break because of cheap bolts and high RPM. Looking at the bottom end of our cars, things are pretty stout. I do think that the block won't be a problem if you stick to the stock SC. My guess is that with forged pistons, the next weakest link will be head gaskets not the block. If you get the pressures up with a whipple, we may be in a whole new world of failure modes. Can't wait for that to happen .

PTE

One thing to remember about American made pistons. The blanks that they use are mostly designed around the typical American Con Rods. Which have a large Nice wide small end , to support a Wrist pin that is pressed in or lightly heated to drop the pin in place . and the pin floats in bore of the piston. The rod alignment is kept in spec to the cylinder bore center by its precise placement on the rod journal , which may be shared with another con rod. So there must be tons of piston to rod side clearance in the wrist pin bore / well area . So If you use that Wiseco , JE or other US built piston , you may have to do an extra step in the assy and add in hardened steel side shims, to get the rod properly aligned to the crank journal.
The M-113K block has alusil sleeves that are precision placed & cast into the Block. It uses a piston that is designed to control the con rod alignment , to the crank Journal , Commonly known as a ,top guided rod Piston. Mahle Builds the OEM cast & Forged for Mercedes. It is designed to work with the top guided rod. The wrist pin well area is machined to handle the rod placement without having to shim its placement.

As far as oversized to the stock sleeve ,you are limited to 0,25 mm or 0.010 "
I've been using Malhe pistons for over 40 years . I try other manufactures piston , but end up back with Mahle
Cheers _PTEngineering

210e55

What if I do an iron sleeve (no alusil). Will they still work? Very interested.