Please:Need some help from the tire/alignment pros:)
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From: Northern VA
2006 E55
Please:Need some help from the tire/alignment pros:)
Having an issue I have never encountered before...
Decided it was time to throw my 19" forged rims back on the beast.
I bought a set of slightly used Michelin PSS tires form a local member here.
On the first drive I had a VERY noticeable pull to the left under heavy acceleration. Once I jump off the gas the car "floats" back on track.
It honestly feels like the car is on ice! Punch the gas, darts left, lift off the gas, floats back in line straight. It is very disconcerting/scary.
I took the wheels/tires to a reputable shop by my house (Curry's) and had them mounted and road force balanced. Bought brand new conical seat lug bolts from RAD. The wheels were mounted and the lugs were torqued to spec by hand.
The car was aligned about a month ago, and I never noticed this trait with the 18" Conti DWS's.
Anybody have any thoughts as to what might be the issue?????
Thanks!
Brian
Decided it was time to throw my 19" forged rims back on the beast.
I bought a set of slightly used Michelin PSS tires form a local member here.
On the first drive I had a VERY noticeable pull to the left under heavy acceleration. Once I jump off the gas the car "floats" back on track.
It honestly feels like the car is on ice! Punch the gas, darts left, lift off the gas, floats back in line straight. It is very disconcerting/scary.
I took the wheels/tires to a reputable shop by my house (Curry's) and had them mounted and road force balanced. Bought brand new conical seat lug bolts from RAD. The wheels were mounted and the lugs were torqued to spec by hand.
The car was aligned about a month ago, and I never noticed this trait with the 18" Conti DWS's.
Anybody have any thoughts as to what might be the issue?????
Thanks!
Brian
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From: The Granite State
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Supposedly the toe changes under hard acceleration with these cars can make it feel unstable. Factory toe links have rubber ends (IIRC) and the aftermarket stuff replaces them with monoballs (heims).
Obviously this doesn't explain anything if you never experienced the issue before... unless maybe your old tires were so rock-hard that they would never hook in the first place.
I was enjoying some wet pavement driving over the weekend, and did some 30MPH bursts. The rear tires (PSS's) would break loose and spin but I was also getting quite a bit of wheelhop which I think is also toe-in/toe-out related.
Subscribed to see what you end up finding out.
-G
Obviously this doesn't explain anything if you never experienced the issue before... unless maybe your old tires were so rock-hard that they would never hook in the first place.
I was enjoying some wet pavement driving over the weekend, and did some 30MPH bursts. The rear tires (PSS's) would break loose and spin but I was also getting quite a bit of wheelhop which I think is also toe-in/toe-out related.
Subscribed to see what you end up finding out.
-G
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From: Northern VA
2006 E55
Thanks for the info, that helps.
Yes it may just be the change in tires, as the DSW are a hard, all season tire. I have experienced somewhat similar issues on other cars when upgrading tires/wheels, but nothing like this.
In fairness the issue is most prevelant on the highway when I pull hard in third...so there is over 550 ft lbs of torque to deal with at that point.
Do you guys think this might be exageratted by an improper alignment and if I get it re-aligned it will be minimized?
Who would have thought a vastly better and bigger tire would cause poor handling in any aspect of preformance....weird
Yes it may just be the change in tires, as the DSW are a hard, all season tire. I have experienced somewhat similar issues on other cars when upgrading tires/wheels, but nothing like this.
In fairness the issue is most prevelant on the highway when I pull hard in third...so there is over 550 ft lbs of torque to deal with at that point.
Do you guys think this might be exageratted by an improper alignment and if I get it re-aligned it will be minimized?
Who would have thought a vastly better and bigger tire would cause poor handling in any aspect of preformance....weird
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one car at a time
Thanks for the info, that helps.
Yes it may just be the change in tires, as the DSW are a hard, all season tire. I have experienced somewhat similar issues on other cars when upgrading tires/wheels, but nothing like this.
In fairness the issue is most prevelant on the highway when I pull hard in third...so there is over 550 ft lbs of torque to deal with at that point.
Do you guys think this might be exageratted by an improper alignment and if I get it re-aligned it will be minimized?
Who would have thought a vastly better and bigger tire would cause poor handling in any aspect of preformance....weird
Yes it may just be the change in tires, as the DSW are a hard, all season tire. I have experienced somewhat similar issues on other cars when upgrading tires/wheels, but nothing like this.
In fairness the issue is most prevelant on the highway when I pull hard in third...so there is over 550 ft lbs of torque to deal with at that point.
Do you guys think this might be exageratted by an improper alignment and if I get it re-aligned it will be minimized?
Who would have thought a vastly better and bigger tire would cause poor handling in any aspect of preformance....weird
Are you sure the rims and tires are perfectly true ? How about tire pressure - if the left tire is slightly lower in pressure, your car will pull under acceleration.
What happens when you brake hard (with little to no grip on the steering wheel) ?
Last edited by cij911; Jul 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM.
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shrimp boat
Also, is your car lower?
I recently swap a set of 18" back on my car and experience some loose feeling in the rear. My car is lowered thru the elm, so raising the rear just one notch make the car feel a lot better.
I recently swap a set of 18" back on my car and experience some loose feeling in the rear. My car is lowered thru the elm, so raising the rear just one notch make the car feel a lot better.
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one car at a time
Changing just tires and rims should not make a properly aligned car pull.
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From: Northern VA
2006 E55
The wheels were checked for run out by a repair shop before I mounted them and were good.
The car is lowered slightly with an elm.
I will check the air pressure, that's a good suggestion.
The car is lowered slightly with an elm.
I will check the air pressure, that's a good suggestion.
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From: The Granite State
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Another obvious one worth checking... make sure the tires were mounted with the direction arrows pointing the correct way.
Shame on any installer who was that careless, but it's possible I suppose.
-G
Shame on any installer who was that careless, but it's possible I suppose.
-G
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From: Northern VA
2006 E55
Thanks, I thought of that. But I can't for the life of me find a directional arrow on the tires.
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2006 E55
Ok I gathered some additional info....
Take your hands off the wheel when coasting and the car tracks dead straight.*
No vibration in the steering wheel at highway speeds
The right tire has 30psi and the left 32...probably not enough to have such a drastic effect.*
Honestly this feels like the torque steer I experienced driving a 500whp fwd Mazda I built. We nicknamed that car "the tree seeking missile" because when the big turbo spooled the power jerked the wheel towards the trees on the side of the road.*
One thing I did notice is that there is some vibration in the steering wheel under hard braking. Maybe the rotors are warped.????
Could the vibration under braking be something other than the rotors? Possibly leading to this problem?
I am stumped guys, so any help would be GREAT!
Thanks, Brian.*
Take your hands off the wheel when coasting and the car tracks dead straight.*
No vibration in the steering wheel at highway speeds
The right tire has 30psi and the left 32...probably not enough to have such a drastic effect.*
Honestly this feels like the torque steer I experienced driving a 500whp fwd Mazda I built. We nicknamed that car "the tree seeking missile" because when the big turbo spooled the power jerked the wheel towards the trees on the side of the road.*
One thing I did notice is that there is some vibration in the steering wheel under hard braking. Maybe the rotors are warped.????
Could the vibration under braking be something other than the rotors? Possibly leading to this problem?
I am stumped guys, so any help would be GREAT!
Thanks, Brian.*
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From: The Granite State
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Did the shop that installed the wheels use an impact gun?
Sometimes the shop goons will crank those lugnuts on WAAAY tighter than the normal spec (what is the correct spec for our wheels anyway....100Lb/Ft?) and can warp cause distortion in the rotor... maybe enough to cause a slight vibration like you described.
bstudey01: Good catch! Yes, I knew there was something to watch out for on the PSS (outside vs inside). I've been conditioned to look for the arrows for so many years, that advice became second-nature.
-G
Sometimes the shop goons will crank those lugnuts on WAAAY tighter than the normal spec (what is the correct spec for our wheels anyway....100Lb/Ft?) and can warp cause distortion in the rotor... maybe enough to cause a slight vibration like you described.
bstudey01: Good catch! Yes, I knew there was something to watch out for on the PSS (outside vs inside). I've been conditioned to look for the arrows for so many years, that advice became second-nature.
-G
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one car at a time
Ok I gathered some additional info....
Take your hands off the wheel when coasting and the car tracks dead straight.*
No vibration in the steering wheel at highway speeds
The right tire has 30psi and the left 32...probably not enough to have such a drastic effect.*
Honestly this feels like the torque steer I experienced driving a 500whp fwd Mazda I built. We nicknamed that car "the tree seeking missile" because when the big turbo spooled the power jerked the wheel towards the trees on the side of the road.*
One thing I did notice is that there is some vibration in the steering wheel under hard braking. Maybe the rotors are warped.????
Could the vibration under braking be something other than the rotors? Possibly leading to this problem?
I am stumped guys, so any help would be GREAT!
Thanks, Brian.*
Take your hands off the wheel when coasting and the car tracks dead straight.*
No vibration in the steering wheel at highway speeds
The right tire has 30psi and the left 32...probably not enough to have such a drastic effect.*
Honestly this feels like the torque steer I experienced driving a 500whp fwd Mazda I built. We nicknamed that car "the tree seeking missile" because when the big turbo spooled the power jerked the wheel towards the trees on the side of the road.*
One thing I did notice is that there is some vibration in the steering wheel under hard braking. Maybe the rotors are warped.????
Could the vibration under braking be something other than the rotors? Possibly leading to this problem?
I am stumped guys, so any help would be GREAT!
Thanks, Brian.*
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Dirt Scooters
doubt 2 PSI would cause that. I had the same problem when changing my tires but put the drag radials on and forgot about it. The airmatic changes the alignment in the rear by alot and when doing the alignment after the quaife install i went from normal to sport 2 and watched all the settings go crazy and say it was off again.
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From: Northern VA
2006 E55
PSS are not directional tires. They are asymmetrical, which means they have an outside sidewall and an inside sidewall. You should see outside or inside on the sidewall, but no arrows. So an asymmetrical tire can rotate in either direction, but only one sidewall can face out. Many people get confused over this.
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I am **** about the torque wrench so I made sure I stood there and watch them do it.....lol.
I will adjust the pressure and see if that helps. I will also return to the shop for there input and advice.
I seriously hope I can get this resolved, because the car looks great!
I will adjust the pressure and see if that helps. I will also return to the shop for there input and advice.
I seriously hope I can get this resolved, because the car looks great!
Last edited by Worth the wait; Jul 31, 2012 at 02:18 PM.
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93' Ultrasonic Blue Mica LS6/T56 RX7 R1 weekend/ 2007 4Runner V8/ 08' prius
Camber will not affect the pull on the steering wheel, toe will. You should install your wheels/tires, and go to a reputable alignment shop.
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Tires will wear into an alignment issue, and when you go to new tread, the existing issue becomes more prominent.
I think you need an alignment. I had mine done once, and they put the rears at zero toe-in. It felt like I was on ice when under heavy load.
Without LSD, the two side are fighting for control, and if you are at zero to toe out, the car will feel very unstable. I went back and explained this to the guy. He said: My computer shows zero toe is the correct alignment setting. I said get in.
After a quick run up onto the freeway, he gladly added .5 degree of toe in. Car is planted as before.
I think you need an alignment. I had mine done once, and they put the rears at zero toe-in. It felt like I was on ice when under heavy load.
Without LSD, the two side are fighting for control, and if you are at zero to toe out, the car will feel very unstable. I went back and explained this to the guy. He said: My computer shows zero toe is the correct alignment setting. I said get in.
After a quick run up onto the freeway, he gladly added .5 degree of toe in. Car is planted as before.
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'08 E63 Wagon
I had the issue you described in the OP (pull on one side under hard acceleration and floating car when let go the gas) when I lowered my car with STAR.
I tracked it down to the rear toe setting of my alignment, I had to use the MB Arts toe links to remedy the issue AND make sure your alignment thrust angle is perfect (as in 0.00 degrees).
I tracked it down to the rear toe setting of my alignment, I had to use the MB Arts toe links to remedy the issue AND make sure your alignment thrust angle is perfect (as in 0.00 degrees).
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93' Ultrasonic Blue Mica LS6/T56 RX7 R1 weekend/ 2007 4Runner V8/ 08' prius
Tires will wear into an alignment issue, and when you go to new tread, the existing issue becomes more prominent.
I think you need an alignment. I had mine done once, and they put the rears at zero toe-in. It felt like I was on ice when under heavy load.
Without LSD, the two side are fighting for control, and if you are at zero to toe out, the car will feel very unstable. I went back and explained this to the guy. He said: My computer shows zero toe is the correct alignment setting. I said get in.
After a quick run up onto the freeway, he gladly added .5 degree of toe in. Car is planted as before.
I think you need an alignment. I had mine done once, and they put the rears at zero toe-in. It felt like I was on ice when under heavy load.
Without LSD, the two side are fighting for control, and if you are at zero to toe out, the car will feel very unstable. I went back and explained this to the guy. He said: My computer shows zero toe is the correct alignment setting. I said get in.
After a quick run up onto the freeway, he gladly added .5 degree of toe in. Car is planted as before.
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From: Northern VA
2006 E55
OK here is an update.
I have been down with a tough leg infection the last week and have just got to resolving this isssue.
It turns out I should have checked the rear tire pressure as well (MORON!).
The drivers side rear valve stem was leaking. came out last Tuesday night after work and the tire was flat.
Replaced the stem. verified air pressure and VOILA...she is back to normal!
Still a very slight pull on hard acceleration, but nothing I cant live with until I get it realligned. May still do the camber arms and toe links, but at $1200 plus install I think I will try an alignment first.
Thanks again for all your hepl guys!
Brian
I have been down with a tough leg infection the last week and have just got to resolving this isssue.
It turns out I should have checked the rear tire pressure as well (MORON!).
The drivers side rear valve stem was leaking. came out last Tuesday night after work and the tire was flat.
Replaced the stem. verified air pressure and VOILA...she is back to normal!
Still a very slight pull on hard acceleration, but nothing I cant live with until I get it realligned. May still do the camber arms and toe links, but at $1200 plus install I think I will try an alignment first.
Thanks again for all your hepl guys!
Brian
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E55
Being that the tires were used, they might have a slight wear issue. I would swap them from left to right just to see if the pull follows the swap. Easy enough to do.
As for the vibration under braking, rotors, ball joints, and front torque thrust arms should be checked out.
As for the vibration under braking, rotors, ball joints, and front torque thrust arms should be checked out.
