Aftermarket Installation
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 28
From: SOCAL
2004 E55
I apologize for not responding more immediate, I am trying to balance the work load and home life, but failing since there is never enough time in the day.
AMG Pilot:
I see your point to an extent, however I believe that garbage in is garbage out. The factory amp is doing its best with what it has for a source, changing the source helps dramatically on the sound system. If you have the DSP, disconnect the mic, and DSP ceases.
Further if you piece together and the wiring for a NTG2.5, amplifier, satellite radio, and media interface... you are where? Broke?! What good is a NTG2.5 w/o the sat radio or media interface? Sat radio transmits the traffic info to the 2.5.
Now if you decide not to use the amp and go speaker level output into a processor then an aftermarket amplifier will be used or you can forgo the EQ and straight into an amplifier then out to the speakers.
If you want to keep the factory amplifier than it is going to need some rewiring and some extra speakers as it has the ability for 7.1 amplification. The good news is that instead of the older 2003-2008 211 center channel taking the signal from the front left and right speaker, the new amp has a dedicated center channel output... but with all good news comes bad, there is also the surround speakers that need added and the subwoofer has its own amplifier fed from the sound amp with a NTG2.5
I hope that makes sense.
Now, is there anyone crazy enough to spend the money to do it like that? Hell yeah. But they are a minority, most only go half way and forgo the factory amp, and just add sat, media interface, and the ntg2.5 hooked to Audison bit10 processor feeding aftermarket amps.
As for the ntg2.5 navigation system, it is light years above the previous comand system, which is why you are probably saying “in NTG 2.5 is lacking what in the NAV department? It works pretty damn well" And I agree. Look at the new ML/GL NAV system and it will make the NTG2.5 look like how you felt about the original 2003-08 Comand.
Depending on which aftermarket radio, the features are slightly better or way better than the NTG2.5. If I were to have my choice, I would put the new ML/GL Comand in, even over any aftermarket unit on the planet.
AMG Pilot:
I see your point to an extent, however I believe that garbage in is garbage out. The factory amp is doing its best with what it has for a source, changing the source helps dramatically on the sound system. If you have the DSP, disconnect the mic, and DSP ceases.
Further if you piece together and the wiring for a NTG2.5, amplifier, satellite radio, and media interface... you are where? Broke?! What good is a NTG2.5 w/o the sat radio or media interface? Sat radio transmits the traffic info to the 2.5.
Now if you decide not to use the amp and go speaker level output into a processor then an aftermarket amplifier will be used or you can forgo the EQ and straight into an amplifier then out to the speakers.
If you want to keep the factory amplifier than it is going to need some rewiring and some extra speakers as it has the ability for 7.1 amplification. The good news is that instead of the older 2003-2008 211 center channel taking the signal from the front left and right speaker, the new amp has a dedicated center channel output... but with all good news comes bad, there is also the surround speakers that need added and the subwoofer has its own amplifier fed from the sound amp with a NTG2.5
I hope that makes sense.
Now, is there anyone crazy enough to spend the money to do it like that? Hell yeah. But they are a minority, most only go half way and forgo the factory amp, and just add sat, media interface, and the ntg2.5 hooked to Audison bit10 processor feeding aftermarket amps.
As for the ntg2.5 navigation system, it is light years above the previous comand system, which is why you are probably saying “in NTG 2.5 is lacking what in the NAV department? It works pretty damn well" And I agree. Look at the new ML/GL NAV system and it will make the NTG2.5 look like how you felt about the original 2003-08 Comand.
Depending on which aftermarket radio, the features are slightly better or way better than the NTG2.5. If I were to have my choice, I would put the new ML/GL Comand in, even over any aftermarket unit on the planet.
The NTG 2.5 head unit isn't the audio problem in the signal chain. It's the amps that are the problem not the head unit.
NTG 2.5 parts and "Wiring" (ONE additional wiring harness that goes from the head unit to the AGW in the trunk) can be sourced for cheap if you keep your open and look.
You can't skip the SDAR with NTG 2.5 it IS the radio tuner it's not optional.
You swap amps and that harness that you previously installed takes care of the wiring. You don't add any speakers. You do gain a subwoofer amp that actually makes the subs operate correctly.
People don't do what you claim and most of what you say is incorrect. I've done quite a few of these conversions. Some people have sourced the comand, both amps, SDAR, media interface and wiring harness for less than two grand. Not a bad deal for factory parts and integration that sounds fantastic. Quick disclaimer I know what good sound In a car should be and can be, I won multiple times in both CAN and IASCA
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
Likes: 12
From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
uhm, without trying to argue, I already did the NTG2.5 conversion a few years ago for both E and SL.
What data or facts that you have that says it is the problem? I don't see it as the problem. Seems to function properly and do what the manufacturer has intended it to do. Nor have I seen them fail. So if you can please elaborate as I am confused by your statement. Unless you are saying there is a lack of a power. I see a lot of Benz's at work, and would know hands down if there were any problems. Or are you saying the MOST optical converter coupled to the output transistors which are TIP31 and pretty much govern the amplifier output to 40 watts a channel is the problem. it is one of the most common amplifier chips in amps.... Sorry, but I just don't understand your statement so I am trying to throw some things out there that might be the problem.
Again, I don't know what you mean and I am really confused now. 2003-june 2008 the audio gateway AGW was a separate piece in the trunk, the 2008 1/2 and on which is the NTG2.5, the AGW is built into the radio. Have you done the conversion?
SDAR can be skipped, it is the HD/Sirius side of the tuner. The basic AM/FM tuner is built into the NTG2.5
Completely lost here, what amp swap? the ntg2.5 amplifier? it should be a 7 channel amplifier with an output to a separate sub amplifier to run the sub.
your last sentence... do you believe that is the problem with system, the sub amp? I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with the amplifier.
First, I do not talk out of my **** when it comes to these things, I am pretty sure I can produce everything in black and white regarding the specs of the system with a corporate MB star on the paper. I reread what I wrote and stand by it. Now if I mistakenly said something wrong, then I apologize ahead of time, but I reread my statements and will stand by them. If you need me to clarify something I can jump on STAR later.
So as an IASCA competitor, did you take the Richard Clark $10k amp challenge? I am just wondering with you saying the amp is an issue?
The NTG 2.5 head unit isn't the audio problem in the signal chain. It's the amps that are the problem not the head unit.
NTG 2.5 parts and "Wiring" (ONE additional wiring harness that goes from the head unit to the AGW in the trunk) can be sourced for cheap if you keep your open and look.
You can't skip the SDAR with NTG 2.5 it IS the radio tuner it's not optional.
You swap amps and that harness that you previously installed takes care of the wiring. You don't add any speakers. You do gain a subwoofer amp that actually makes the subs operate correctly.
your last sentence... do you believe that is the problem with system, the sub amp? I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with the amplifier.
People don't do what you claim and most of what you say is incorrect. I've done quite a few of these conversions. Some people have sourced the comand, both amps, SDAR, media interface and wiring harness for less than two grand. Not a bad deal for factory parts and integration that sounds fantastic. Quick disclaimer I know what good sound In a car should be and can be, I won multiple times in both CAN and IASCA
So as an IASCA competitor, did you take the Richard Clark $10k amp challenge? I am just wondering with you saying the amp is an issue?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 28
From: SOCAL
2004 E55
uhm, without trying to argue, I already did the NTG2.5 conversion a few years ago for both E and SL.
What data or facts that you have that says it is the problem? I don't see it as the problem. Seems to function properly and do what the manufacturer has intended it to do. Nor have I seen them fail. So if you can please elaborate as I am confused by your statement. Unless you are saying there is a lack of a power. I see a lot of Benz's at work, and would know hands down if there were any problems. Or are you saying the MOST optical converter coupled to the output transistors which are TIP31 and pretty much govern the amplifier output to 40 watts a channel is the problem. it is one of the most common amplifier chips in amps.... Sorry, but I just don't understand your statement so I am trying to throw some things out there that might be the problem.
Again, I don't know what you mean and I am really confused now. 2003-june 2008 the audio gateway AGW was a separate piece in the trunk, the 2008 1/2 and on which is the NTG2.5, the AGW is built into the radio. Have you done the conversion?
SDAR can be skipped, it is the HD/Sirius side of the tuner. The basic AM/FM tuner is built into the NTG2.5
Completely lost here, what amp swap? the ntg2.5 amplifier? it should be a 7 channel amplifier with an output to a separate sub amplifier to run the sub.
your last sentence... do you believe that is the problem with system, the sub amp? I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with the amplifier.
First, I do not talk out of my **** when it comes to these things, I am pretty sure I can produce everything in black and white regarding the specs of the system with a corporate MB star on the paper. I reread what I wrote and stand by it. Now if I mistakenly said something wrong, then I apologize ahead of time, but I reread my statements and will stand by them. If you need me to clarify something I can jump on STAR later.
So as an IASCA competitor, did you take the Richard Clark $10k amp challenge? I am just wondering with you saying the amp is an issue?
What data or facts that you have that says it is the problem? I don't see it as the problem. Seems to function properly and do what the manufacturer has intended it to do. Nor have I seen them fail. So if you can please elaborate as I am confused by your statement. Unless you are saying there is a lack of a power. I see a lot of Benz's at work, and would know hands down if there were any problems. Or are you saying the MOST optical converter coupled to the output transistors which are TIP31 and pretty much govern the amplifier output to 40 watts a channel is the problem. it is one of the most common amplifier chips in amps.... Sorry, but I just don't understand your statement so I am trying to throw some things out there that might be the problem.
Again, I don't know what you mean and I am really confused now. 2003-june 2008 the audio gateway AGW was a separate piece in the trunk, the 2008 1/2 and on which is the NTG2.5, the AGW is built into the radio. Have you done the conversion?
SDAR can be skipped, it is the HD/Sirius side of the tuner. The basic AM/FM tuner is built into the NTG2.5
Completely lost here, what amp swap? the ntg2.5 amplifier? it should be a 7 channel amplifier with an output to a separate sub amplifier to run the sub.
your last sentence... do you believe that is the problem with system, the sub amp? I am still trying to figure out what is wrong with the amplifier.
First, I do not talk out of my **** when it comes to these things, I am pretty sure I can produce everything in black and white regarding the specs of the system with a corporate MB star on the paper. I reread what I wrote and stand by it. Now if I mistakenly said something wrong, then I apologize ahead of time, but I reread my statements and will stand by them. If you need me to clarify something I can jump on STAR later.
So as an IASCA competitor, did you take the Richard Clark $10k amp challenge? I am just wondering with you saying the amp is an issue?
I don't believe that you have done the conversion based on your previous post and this post. If you have done the conversion tell me when you scan the car with STAR how does your system come up?
you do realize that the amps have both active crossovers, equalization and use the phone mic to trim the freq response. The amps are also functioning as the AGW, yes I have done the conversion not once but many times.
yes amp swap, you can't use the original amp with NTG 2.5, infact nothing that is not NTG 2.5 can be on the MOST ring. You do not add speakers like you claim when you do the upgrade
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
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From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
when the star first goes through the quick check it can't establish communications with the audio gateway.
I know you can't use the original amp with the NTG2.5, the original amp is the AGW, NTG2.5 has became the AGW. You can use NTG2.5 as a stand alone unit with the speaker level outputs enabled.
I know you can't use the original amp with the NTG2.5, the original amp is the AGW, NTG2.5 has became the AGW. You can use NTG2.5 as a stand alone unit with the speaker level outputs enabled.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,046
Likes: 28
From: SOCAL
2004 E55
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
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From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
I don't know what you are talking about? are you asking about where I get the can wires, or about taking the amp out of the equation to get it to talk to the sds... you have me lost, if you want, feel free to call me if you need to clarify. either at the mb dealership, work, or cell, my number is readily available.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
Likes: 12
From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
I do know that the price is going up to 549, and there will be a press release regarding it Friday. Out of my control. But the great news is there will be a few other people who can answer the questions
I know I am not the best at it, and not always the quickest to reply... but there are only so many hours in the day
I get calls and emails throughout the night... Germany, Dubai, England, Canada... so some times I have to bury my phone
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 594
Likes: 8
05 E55, 06 Audi S4
^ this guy has no joke been one of the most helpful people I have dealt with in awhile. Answers emails promptly and at all hours of the day haha. I'm looking forward to my plug and play installation with the opti1 when it arrives.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
Likes: 12
From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
I seen 2 posts in the audio forum that state the sound is better with the OPTI-1 utilizing the factory amplifier.
We all know how the internet forums work, difference of opinions and such, and if it sucked, I would hear about it already! Thankfully I tested them out for a while before saying they work.
We all know how the internet forums work, difference of opinions and such, and if it sucked, I would hear about it already! Thankfully I tested them out for a while before saying they work.
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
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BMW M5, Jeep SRT8, MB E63
Thanks man!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,825
Likes: 17
From: Southern California
E55 w/ goods, Z32 Project underway
I apologize for not responding more immediate, I am trying to balance the work load and home life, but failing since there is never enough time in the day.
AMG Pilot:
I see your point to an extent, however I believe that garbage in is garbage out. The factory amp is doing its best with what it has for a source, changing the source helps dramatically on the sound system. If you have the DSP, disconnect the mic, and DSP ceases.
Further if you piece together and the wiring for a NTG2.5, amplifier, satellite radio, and media interface... you are where? Broke?! What good is a NTG2.5 w/o the sat radio or media interface? Sat radio transmits the traffic info to the 2.5.
Now if you decide not to use the amp and go speaker level output into a processor then an aftermarket amplifier will be used or you can forgo the EQ and straight into an amplifier then out to the speakers.
If you want to keep the factory amplifier than it is going to need some rewiring and some extra speakers as it has the ability for 7.1 amplification. The good news is that instead of the older 2003-2008 211 center channel taking the signal from the front left and right speaker, the new amp has a dedicated center channel output... but with all good news comes bad, there is also the surround speakers that need added and the subwoofer has its own amplifier fed from the sound amp with a NTG2.5
I hope that makes sense.
Now, is there anyone crazy enough to spend the money to do it like that? Hell yeah. But they are a minority, most only go half way and forgo the factory amp, and just add sat, media interface, and the ntg2.5 hooked to Audison bit10 processor feeding aftermarket amps.
As for the ntg2.5 navigation system, it is light years above the previous comand system, which is why you are probably saying “in NTG 2.5 is lacking what in the NAV department? It works pretty damn well" And I agree. Look at the new ML/GL NAV system and it will make the NTG2.5 look like how you felt about the original 2003-08 Comand.
Depending on which aftermarket radio, the features are slightly better or way better than the NTG2.5. If I were to have my choice, I would put the new ML/GL Comand in, even over any aftermarket unit on the planet.
Lelix
I would love more than anything to install a complete audio system, starting with an Audison Bit10, Audison Amplifiers, Hertz Mille components, JL Audio subwoofers, and the associated wiring. Hey, I just spent $10k before labor!
I have built vehicle audio systems over many years that you could hear a gnat fart in 5.1, so I know what is expected out of an audio system.
This interface is for people that think the COMAND sucks, can’t afford to go out and buy the NTG2.5, SDARS, Amp, media interface, and then have it installed along with the extra speakers including the sub amp or add aftermarket amp and speakers.
So back to being realistic, the short coming of the vehicle is the antique COMAND. The OPTI-1 replaces it easily without adding another amp or doing a crazy rewire. I am sure as the demand increases the price will come down a bit, but it is a new product, production is limited, and the costs of keeping it alive are pretty high.
Further the sound quality has improved over the factory system from the several people locally that I know that have had it replaced.
I hope this helps and clarifies my position.
AMG Pilot:
I see your point to an extent, however I believe that garbage in is garbage out. The factory amp is doing its best with what it has for a source, changing the source helps dramatically on the sound system. If you have the DSP, disconnect the mic, and DSP ceases.
Further if you piece together and the wiring for a NTG2.5, amplifier, satellite radio, and media interface... you are where? Broke?! What good is a NTG2.5 w/o the sat radio or media interface? Sat radio transmits the traffic info to the 2.5.
Now if you decide not to use the amp and go speaker level output into a processor then an aftermarket amplifier will be used or you can forgo the EQ and straight into an amplifier then out to the speakers.
If you want to keep the factory amplifier than it is going to need some rewiring and some extra speakers as it has the ability for 7.1 amplification. The good news is that instead of the older 2003-2008 211 center channel taking the signal from the front left and right speaker, the new amp has a dedicated center channel output... but with all good news comes bad, there is also the surround speakers that need added and the subwoofer has its own amplifier fed from the sound amp with a NTG2.5
I hope that makes sense.
Now, is there anyone crazy enough to spend the money to do it like that? Hell yeah. But they are a minority, most only go half way and forgo the factory amp, and just add sat, media interface, and the ntg2.5 hooked to Audison bit10 processor feeding aftermarket amps.
As for the ntg2.5 navigation system, it is light years above the previous comand system, which is why you are probably saying “in NTG 2.5 is lacking what in the NAV department? It works pretty damn well" And I agree. Look at the new ML/GL NAV system and it will make the NTG2.5 look like how you felt about the original 2003-08 Comand.
Depending on which aftermarket radio, the features are slightly better or way better than the NTG2.5. If I were to have my choice, I would put the new ML/GL Comand in, even over any aftermarket unit on the planet.
Lelix
I would love more than anything to install a complete audio system, starting with an Audison Bit10, Audison Amplifiers, Hertz Mille components, JL Audio subwoofers, and the associated wiring. Hey, I just spent $10k before labor!
I have built vehicle audio systems over many years that you could hear a gnat fart in 5.1, so I know what is expected out of an audio system.
This interface is for people that think the COMAND sucks, can’t afford to go out and buy the NTG2.5, SDARS, Amp, media interface, and then have it installed along with the extra speakers including the sub amp or add aftermarket amp and speakers.
So back to being realistic, the short coming of the vehicle is the antique COMAND. The OPTI-1 replaces it easily without adding another amp or doing a crazy rewire. I am sure as the demand increases the price will come down a bit, but it is a new product, production is limited, and the costs of keeping it alive are pretty high.
Further the sound quality has improved over the factory system from the several people locally that I know that have had it replaced.
I hope this helps and clarifies my position.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
Likes: 12
From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
Hi AMG pilot, I still don't know what you mean, but it is OK.
I did reread my comments and did find that I was wrong on the center channel out. It is a dedicated center out, my bad... I don't know how I blew that one and I apologize. I am pretty much used to hooking it up to the left + and right - of the door due to the aftermarket amps are 5 channel, and I like to keep the front center speaker. 5 channel amp = 4 channels front, 1 for sub, and rear off of the radio, center off the front 2 channels as explained before.
I did reread my comments and did find that I was wrong on the center channel out. It is a dedicated center out, my bad... I don't know how I blew that one and I apologize. I am pretty much used to hooking it up to the left + and right - of the door due to the aftermarket amps are 5 channel, and I like to keep the front center speaker. 5 channel amp = 4 channels front, 1 for sub, and rear off of the radio, center off the front 2 channels as explained before.
Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
BMW M5, Jeep SRT8, MB E63
Hi AMG pilot, I still don't know what you mean, but it is OK.
I did reread my comments and did find that I was wrong on the center channel out. It is a dedicated center out, my bad... I don't know how I blew that one and I apologize. I am pretty much used to hooking it up to the left + and right - of the door due to the aftermarket amps are 5 channel, and I like to keep the front center speaker. 5 channel amp = 4 channels front, 1 for sub, and rear off of the radio, center off the front 2 channels as explained before.
I did reread my comments and did find that I was wrong on the center channel out. It is a dedicated center out, my bad... I don't know how I blew that one and I apologize. I am pretty much used to hooking it up to the left + and right - of the door due to the aftermarket amps are 5 channel, and I like to keep the front center speaker. 5 channel amp = 4 channels front, 1 for sub, and rear off of the radio, center off the front 2 channels as explained before.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,430
Likes: 12
From: Cleveland Ohio
beater with a heater
either way, I am old school, more sound from the front, and rear just for a bit of fill. Music should be a feeling, and transplant you there at the time of the recording. for instance an orchestra or symphony, it is in front of you, most of the music is in your face and depending where on stage an audio system should reproduce that correctly. IE, brass on the left, tenor right, etc.. take a look/listen at a live recording and see if your system reproduces the sound as where they are sectioned on the stage in a picture.
Now if you are a security guard, then most likely you will have your back to the stage so then amplify the rear away
Further if you listen to a lot of rap, they are recorded so poorly that it doesn't matter what and where is amplified. I would love to find some properly recorded rap, but since it isn't my taste of music to begin with, I wont lose no sleep. Note: I did find the greatest hits of 2 Pac a pretty good recording on some songs, so I am not totally saying all of rap or hip hop, just most
Believe me, I would love to spend tons of money on amplifiers and speakers, the OPTI-1 however is for the person who does not.
Now if you are a security guard, then most likely you will have your back to the stage so then amplify the rear away
Further if you listen to a lot of rap, they are recorded so poorly that it doesn't matter what and where is amplified. I would love to find some properly recorded rap, but since it isn't my taste of music to begin with, I wont lose no sleep. Note: I did find the greatest hits of 2 Pac a pretty good recording on some songs, so I am not totally saying all of rap or hip hop, just most
Believe me, I would love to spend tons of money on amplifiers and speakers, the OPTI-1 however is for the person who does not.
Last edited by jbondox; Feb 5, 2013 at 02:02 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2012
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05 E55, 06 Audi S4
Bumping this up, I'm installing my aftermarket Kenwood this weekend. I have the antenna adaptor that needs to be connected at the gateway in the trunk. There are a few connections that look like would connect to my adaptor. Just wondering if anyone has input on precisely which one a tie into.
Member
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BMW M5, Jeep SRT8, MB E63
Bumping this up, I'm installing my aftermarket Kenwood this weekend. I have the antenna adaptor that needs to be connected at the gateway in the trunk. There are a few connections that look like would connect to my adaptor. Just wondering if anyone has input on precisely which one a tie into.
I haven't gone back to my installer with all the info, but expect we can solve it. My guy said all his MB, Porsche, Volvo, and a few other brand installs suck for reception after because of some proprietary signal/processing those mfgs are using in the stock system. I'm changing out to a non-metallic tint this weekend and then will go back to installer with this info.
Wanted darker tint anyway
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2012
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05 E55, 06 Audi S4
I have the opti1 from him. Also the directions on where to get power etc... For antenna it just says connection is at gateway on driverside rear. But it looks like multiple connection back there. Pmd you bigillz
