Billet rod and piston
03-21-2013, 10:01 PM
#26
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Ive put together a few 4032 Mahle piston short blocks with Chinese Eagles and they are all holding 500+ whp for 10,000+ miles. These are all two liters. Still haven't had one fail yet.
A 4032 piston at .0030 ptw seems to be a pretty proven way to go. Not the best if your going for BIG power.
A 4032 piston at .0030 ptw seems to be a pretty proven way to go. Not the best if your going for BIG power.
03-21-2013, 10:02 PM
#27
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Dirt Scooters
That is very untrue. A cast piston WILL fail at the ring land under heavy load for sustained periods. This is true even with a proper tune. A cast piston will also fail at the ring lands from crappy tuning. Properly tuned high horsepower applications (2618 piston hung on steel rods (I or H) beam are very hard on rod bearings.
When I say high horsepower I'm referring to 200+ hp per cylinder. People switch to an aluminum rod at the expense of frequent torquing of the rod caps, which is substantially cheaper then changing rod bearings once a race or once a season. This is all depending on the type or racing and of course power levels. I do not think any one with these cars will need to worry about these kind of issues any time soon.
Do you know what material the pistons you bought were made from?
When I say high horsepower I'm referring to 200+ hp per cylinder. People switch to an aluminum rod at the expense of frequent torquing of the rod caps, which is substantially cheaper then changing rod bearings once a race or once a season. This is all depending on the type or racing and of course power levels. I do not think any one with these cars will need to worry about these kind of issues any time soon.
Do you know what material the pistons you bought were made from?
03-21-2013, 10:03 PM
#28
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2005 E55 AMG
Guess we can agree to disagree. Not my first time building something and when I do I do it right and don't take short cuts. Kinda stupid to build a motor and put stock rods in with ARP bolts after seeing broken rods from other people and having the rods tested by 3 different people at this point. I did plan to stick with stock and use ARP 625 bolts until everyone came to the same conclusion. I'm not looking for a engine to make 800hp for a couple days or weeks. I'm looking to make 800+ and drive it all the time.
03-21-2013, 10:17 PM
#30
I also have had good experience with Mahle pistons, in fact their 4032 offeringsare my preference in a high HP NA build. They will definitely work in a blown or turbo application, but are indisputably more brittle than a 2618 and therefore not the best choice.
Ive put together a few 4032 Mahle piston short blocks with Chinese Eagles and they are all holding 500+ whp for 10,000+ miles. These are all two liters. Still haven't had one fail yet.
A 4032 piston at .0030 ptw seems to be a pretty proven way to go. Not the best if your going for BIG power.
A 4032 piston at .0030 ptw seems to be a pretty proven way to go. Not the best if your going for BIG power.
03-21-2013, 10:22 PM
#31
I'll do it to mine if we all chip in like $25 or something
I'm doing the Weistec/headers/IC coolant circuit this weekend and will leave it on low boost until the new engine is done, then we can turn up the wick on the supercharger to see what it'll really take before breaking.
I'd want to do an EGT datalogger on all 8 tubes first though just to make sure he tune was right, otherwise we'd never know what the real power limit is. I bet it's over 700RW.
I'm doing the Weistec/headers/IC coolant circuit this weekend and will leave it on low boost until the new engine is done, then we can turn up the wick on the supercharger to see what it'll really take before breaking.
I'd want to do an EGT datalogger on all 8 tubes first though just to make sure he tune was right, otherwise we'd never know what the real power limit is. I bet it's over 700RW.
I don't think we are disagreeing at all, but rather looking at two points that are valid. I totally agree with what you're doing, but have a lot of curiosity as to what a stock engine can really handle. If I had the cash to do it I would build a stock block to the point of blowing it up and then build one like yours.
03-21-2013, 10:32 PM
#32
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I made 823rwhp I think it was but that was just a 4 second dyno run I think it will take 700hp without a problem. 800 I don't think would last long. Lets see!!!
I think it will take 700hp without a problem. 800 I don't think would last long. Lets see!!!
03-21-2013, 10:53 PM
#33
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2005 E55 AMG
I'll do it to mine if we all chip in like $25 or something
I'm doing the Weistec/headers/IC coolant circuit this weekend and will leave it on low boost until the new engine is done, then we can turn up the wick on the supercharger to see what it'll really take before breaking.
I'd want to do an EGT datalogger on all 8 tubes first though just to make sure he tune was right, otherwise we'd never know what the real power limit is. I bet it's over 700RW.
I'm doing the Weistec/headers/IC coolant circuit this weekend and will leave it on low boost until the new engine is done, then we can turn up the wick on the supercharger to see what it'll really take before breaking.
I'd want to do an EGT datalogger on all 8 tubes first though just to make sure he tune was right, otherwise we'd never know what the real power limit is. I bet it's over 700RW.
03-22-2013, 02:33 PM
#39
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Why would any one keep any information secret with these cars?
I don't understand that. Its like people in the Honda world keeping secrets about their street car's turbo size. If your not racing for money or competitively I see no reason to do such a thing. It just holds back the whole community as a whole. We should be sharing as much information as possible with these cars.
I don't understand that. Its like people in the Honda world keeping secrets about their street car's turbo size. If your not racing for money or competitively I see no reason to do such a thing. It just holds back the whole community as a whole. We should be sharing as much information as possible with these cars.
03-22-2013, 02:49 PM
#40
That's easy ... jealousy ... the, "I want to be faster/better than your car" mentality.
Don't you work in the corporate world? Dime a dozen these people, see them every single day. Hell, you probably work with a few.
OP-
I am NOT by any means directing this at you, just a general comment.
Don't you work in the corporate world? Dime a dozen these people, see them every single day. Hell, you probably work with a few.
OP-
I am NOT by any means directing this at you, just a general comment.
03-22-2013, 03:05 PM
#41
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Going the weistec route. No secrets being kept I'm all for competition If I was keeping secrets the rods and pistons wouldn't be on here right now or half of the other things I've posted on here like compression ratio not being what people think it is and a lot of the other things I've found out. Grudge/street racing I will have a stock engine with a weistec thing on it making 6psi i think they said and I bought the car that way 
That used to be the best part of grudge racing. (Besides the 2 hours leading up to the race IF it happened) street racing is pretty much the same these days. Nothing better than someone thinking you have a 12 second car....
If I was keeping secrets the rods and pistons wouldn't be on here right now or half of the other things I've posted on here like compression ratio not being what people think it is and a lot of the other things I've found out. Grudge/street racing I will have a stock engine with a weistec thing on it making 6psi i think they said and I bought the car that way That used to be the best part of grudge racing. (Besides the 2 hours leading up to the race IF it happened) street racing is pretty much the same these days. Nothing better than someone thinking you have a 12 second car....
This is getting good.. Good Luck with your build....
03-22-2013, 07:32 PM
#45
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Where do you plan to red line at? Seeing as you're building it from ground up and presumably having it balanced, is there scope for something as high as 8000rpm and then head porting etc to go with it? I guess the power band on this motor will not making power up that high, but if you could tune the intake runners and cam profile to peak much later....
03-22-2013, 08:31 PM
#46
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7500rpm is my personal goal. The heads can support it and we've taken some weight out of the valve train. With a blower intake runner length isn't as important so as long as the engine is making power ill keep spinning it. The cam profile should like top end also. My only reason for wanting the extra RPM is to stay in 3rd thru the traps and be able to go over 140mph without the 4th gear shift. I've got 3.55's to test out to and they will love RPM.
03-30-2013, 12:57 PM
#47
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Finally have the pistons in my hands. The piston weight is 401 grams so we were kinda surprised they came in lighter than stock honestly. Rods came in lighter also at 531 grams without bearings (stock is 547 grams). Now i've got another delay with needing to have torque plates made so thats going to add another 3-4 weeks 
.
.
03-30-2013, 01:18 PM
#49
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C215 CL55 AMG, W124 500E, W210 E430, W124 300E
Arent the piston skirts supposed to be coated? We have Alusil Bores, you need a durable coating to withstand the hard silicon crystals in the cylinder liners.
Mahle used "iron spray coating" IIRC.
Mahle used "iron spray coating" IIRC.
03-30-2013, 01:23 PM
#50
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These are for the darton sleeves. They are anodized also and will have moly coated skirts when they come back after figuring out valve reliefs.
