2004RennTechE55

I have a 2004 e55 with the only mods being a larger water pump and a stock ECU tune from eurocharged. What would I need to do to my car if anything to run e85 fuel? What would I need to change on my car like fuel pump, injectors, getting it returned ect? Also what are the pros and cons of running e85? Thanks

RedBullJnky

PM chawkins
His car is on E85

Jon2007E63P30

Do some research. MB was one car company that warned against anything higher than 10%.

RedBullJnky

A friend of mine down here ran his E55 on E85, full stage 3, and anywhere from 100-150 shot of nitrous with NO ISSUES. Tuned by Jerry.

urbamworm

Yep

Jon2007E63P30

I said do your research, not give meaningless anecdotes. Your friend just fried his warrantee.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-cars/1735793/

PACougar

What? Who the hell runs E85, nitrous, and is concerned about their warranty? More power to you if you want a stock car, but no one hear is trying to convert their 55K to E85 just cause.

2004RennTechE55

I second that

RedBullJnky

Thank you! You said it a lot nicer than I had just typed out.

I mean seriously, our cars are 10 years old. What's a warranty???

Jon2007E63P30

Ok, since the OP has noted they do not care. Fine. I am used to many on this forum talking a lot about extended warrantee's. guess I am jaded to think anyone else would be as foolish as me to go 70k after the original warrantee ran out.

In any event, prolonged use of E85 will eat out your fuel system where there is any rubber, flexible hose and any seal or gasket. Using it once or twice, no big deal. Try some methanol out, that got me 100 miles in a pinch in a 1970 MGB. Talk about clean spark plugs!

Exotic-metal55

I converted my car to E85 about two years ago and then decided it was not worth it and not effeciant to run. Fuel pumps, injectors and fuel lines need to all go up about 28% larger capacity. If you plan to use pump E85, then the % of E85 at the pump changes all the time and you risk going lean and Kaboom.

There are so many great race fuels out there, that having a race gas tune and 93 octane tune, makes a lot more sense. You then can use fuels that use about the same stoich.

Below is a helpfull link.

http://www.e85mustangs.com/tuning.html

rockthemullet

What's a warranty? lol

To each their own, I know a lot of people on each side of the fence.


OP, I run E85 on three of my cars.

Pros would include a cooler combustion (lower EGTs), ability to run a lot more timing due to the octane equivalent of 109 (at 1/3 the price), and some serious spark knock reduction... you'll break an M113k before you see knock with E85.

Cons would include availability, long term component deterioration, and cold start annoyances. I'm an engineer and used to design fuel systems for a major OEM... you really aren't going to see system failure using E85 for 50+k miles. If you're like me, a constant tinkerer, it's likely you'll either revert from E85 within this time frame or rebuild your fuel system with better materials if it's a concern to you. Having said that, there are plenty of E85 compatible alternative materials on the market now, but I chose the super simple route when converting my E55.

(2) Aeromotive Stealth 340LPH pumps
(8) ID1000 fuel injectors
(1) BIP tune

Honestly, this is all I changed to start running E85 and I did the conversion on a Sunday afternoon. The fuel pump change is moderate difficulty... you have to modify the pump buckets and improvise, but everything else is straight forward. I had an issue after install where one of my fuel level floats was stuck but aside from that, no issues thus far.

See the mods in my sig... I was pretty consistently at 19mpg mixed driving on 93 and I am now 14mpg mixed driving on E85 BUT because of the cost of E85, I'm actually paying $5-7 less per 500 miles than 93 and much safer.

Regarding ethanol content variability, you can pick up testers if you're that paranoid about it but I just usually go to a select few gas stations and have not had issues with any of my E85 cars for years.

Any more questions, feel free to give me a shout. As far as I know, there are only a handful of us on E85... let's get this going so the tuners get more experience with the stuff!

chawkins2001

Yip E85 here, and it is a love hate relationship. Makes more than race gas hp/tq at the fraction of a cost. The fuel coupled with a meth setup is virtually impossible to detonate. Cons is winter cold starts, sucks ballz lol.

BC928

Lean? This is the kind of info that just does not vibe from this forum. If you buy e85 and tune for it, and then get e60 on the next tank, you will not go lean on the same tune. You will go RICH. Petrol has *more* btus not less.

You may to detonate, but you will not go lean. You will be pig rich and it may barely run if too much petrol is in the mix. An o2 sensor will account for some of that, but not if you have gone all over big on injectors.

rockthemullet

If you tune on winter blend and then go all out in the summer, you could have issues. Around here, the lower limit of pump E85 is E51.. although I've never seen lower than E70 in the winter. If you tune on E70 to the limit and hit a good tank of E92 (highest I've seen locally) I could see a lean condition. However, as long as you don't do burnouts coming out of the gas station, a lot of the variance can be adjusted out during normal driving and you'll end up with comparable AFRs.

03svtkiller

So pretty much all we need is pumps injectors and tune? Is it a need to upgrade to 1000cc from 550cc?

rockthemullet

That's what I've been running for 15k miles on E85. You may be able to get away with 780s but I would just spring for the 1ks. I also wouldn't buy anything but ID injectors, they're worth every penny.

BC928

I have tested the e85 with the sensor in LA and SD. No variance from range 81-86%.

Has anyone tested in NorCal?

boostedfe3

If anyone is interested I have 1000cc injectors I would sale. I bought them from chawkins and he used E85 with them. I have not used them they are still in my garage.

BC928

IDs? How much fer Ze Voman? I mean injectors?

rockthemullet

They are Bosch 1000s

boostedfe3

Correct. They are th bosch ones

BI-Performance

E85 must be tested imo everytime at the pump before you put it in the tank. Down here in Atlanta, there was so much variation and it caused consistent headaches. If you have a good source, and can get the right setup, mine made over 700rwtq with a 188MM CP and the usual bolt ons.

Exotic-metal55

First, in my the post above, I did not say E85 was bad , it is a great fuel and I posted a lot of info about it for our cars years ago. I just said it was not effecient for me to run with my set up back then, and that is based on not having Flex sensors and adjustable tunes for "Pump" E85, that can change with any fill up. It is not effecfient to want max power out of E85 (100 % of the time) and then go , Oh well, I got diluted this tank, so I will de tune my car for E70 or whatever your test strip says. We all know, the label on the pump does not denote what is really in thier tanks .



Exactly and that is what I meant about running "Pump" E85 not being effecient in my Mercedes format. The pump E85 fuel is to variable (at least in my area) and we do not have an E85 sensor tied into our ECU to adjust for any dilution, like most performance cars do or hell, even modern SUV`s Most the big HP cars that run E85, still do not race on pump E85 for the same reason. Most still buy racing E85 in drums, so they get the correct mixture (max power) . Those cars also have sensors to adjust the tune.


http://www.igniteracingfuel.com/E-85.html

I run e85 in my truck all the time and switch back to gas as well with no tune changes. The ECU has a built in tune for E85 and worth about 30 more HP. So yes, E85 is a great fuel but sucks to tune for E85 and then re-tune if you get E80, E70, or whatever the station diluted it to.

Flex fuel sensor
http://www.whiteracing.com/e85.html


Bottom line, if you have a safe way to tune , test and or buy racing E85 in drums, then E85 is a great fuel for boosted engines. It also does not stink , if your cats are gone. Carbon build up and carbon cleaning ability is also nice. If we had a flex fuel sensor like the GTR, Ford and GM moded cars, then I would run it all the time.

BC928

Max power is never tuned into a street ECU. At least rational people do not. A safety zone is *always* put into a car that will not JUST see the strip or the track. This is just a fact - with rational, well trained tuners and educated owners.

Therefore, when someone would manipulate the ECU to make sure it has the correct changes to run, say, e85 on open loop and closed loop, as well as any slight timing changes - you will not be in a situation where e70 will break anything. See here: http://igotasti.com/vBforum/showthre...ing-in-between

The fact is that the e70 would burn richer to the extent that there is 15% more petrol and that amount less ethanol. If you are tuned for safe-high-effort instead of "Max power" (which no one in their right mind does for the street on something they care about) - you will be fine.


This is what I am talking about on some of these threads. People are sassing at each other about "Its been posted, RTFM, or STFF" - well, not really.

Has minimum Pulsewidth on an ID 1000cc injector been posted? What about max timing on E85 with that fuel's safe-rich AFR?

If this information simply is not known, that is perfectly acceptable. But is it reason enough then to say "We are all still learning?"

There is a lengthy research paper that suggests, though with issues in the science, that E50 is about as knock resistant at high IATs as E85 is. Boom.

The paper is essentially saying (among other things) that you have a saturation point where at high IATs, whether you have E50 or E85 will not affect when you will have true knock.

READ people. DON'T just take simple answers that were repeated from 3rd party "I read it on the interwebs" which have no research to back it up.

Now - some here HAVE run ethanol. For quite a few miles. We appreciate the info these people give.

It would be simple to set up a flex fuel sensor. At least for piece of mind, just like IAT and AFR. To be aware.

From what I can see, and from reading some posts between the lines, the code on the ECU has not been cracked. Obviously we do not have something like HP tuners, or even something 30% of that effectiveness, to dig into the ECU.

So yes - when you have little control over the ECU to change the small details you need to change to really benefit from E85, its more difficult.

Some well researched items:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...e85-14992.html

High compression, high ethanol: http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php...hanol-engines/

These guys have MINUTE control over their ecus. http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...t-my-tune.html