SICAMG

At 1.530 the factory N/A M113 springs show around 85-90psi on the seat. My new Comp 26123 springs at 1.470 installed height show 90-95 psi on the seat.

Hooblah

Thanks. Do you know what the seat pressure on the nose is?

SICAMG

I would have to set up a spring again but very close to the factory when I compared them both.

SICAMG

About to start the spring swap as one of my winter projects on the car. Decided not to pull engine so it will be time consuming but what ever as I look forward to it and the end results.

Where are you at with yours Brendan ?

Hooblah

It seems that these springs retain similar levels of pressure to factory springs. I thought the idea of this was to increase pressure AND decrease weight?

SICAMG

Yes. You can shim the spring for more pressure but just installing the new springs with the same pressure will give more control due to it being the beehive, much less weight with just the single spring and less weight with the retainer. Those things alone efectivelly increase pressure to the seat even though you will not see it on a pressure gauge.
Look at it another way...What if all we had to do was remover our retainer that had a weight of 1lb per spring to a retainer that is only 18 grams ? That valve just became very light so to speak and needs much less spring pressure to control.

Hooblah

Just read the thread again from the start, and it looks like this is all based off of a m113k, which means double valve springs. The actual weight reduction was around 1.5lbs across the whole valvetrain. It may be wise to clarify as there is some confusion due to more than one person having a stake in this.
Also was there eventually a solution to the collets being not quite right?

SICAMG

M113 engines have double springs as well. There should be no issue's with that and the top of the keeper actually is up against the valve keeper groove so will go nowhere. I am thank full to -Sir boost a lot- for coming up with all this stuff.

BC928

Same as last. Just haven't had the car back from "the plumber" for fuel system, IC, exchaust, and Meth. Hence my "plumbing" joke. Great guy if anyone is in SoCal/southern cal desert. Meticulous.

So it will be late 1st Qtr 2021, early second for actually driving the car. ( Still need to find out if VRP is actually thinking its a joke that I don't have a pulley for a year now - I can just make one, but its so frustrating with these aftermarket monkeys. Just because you have access to CNC doesn't make you an engineer, or really, a good business owner).

Maybe wear a back brace if the engine is in the car with you doing this.

SICAMG

I always jack the car up as it makes it much more easy to work on with long term under hood work.
Just finished the x pipe I wanted to do and it came out great and should free up some power. {Trying to do all the "on the back on cold concrete } work now before it gets real cold. LOL
Sent inter cooler out to be coated for heat reduction like the Nascar guys do and increasing the ice tank lines from 3/4" to 7/8" for a little more flow.
3.06 gears will be the long haul project for the winter after the springs go in. Real hard to find selective pinion race shims for setting up the gears. Been busy !! LOL

Also Brenden, I would start hammering VRP big time. There is no excuse for that.

tlambert

Can you tell me about this? And where you’re getting it done?

Alex L

This is a great thread. I'm in process of a TT M113 build and decided to do the heads as per Sir-Chris-Boost-Alot's write up - many thanks for that! One thing I've noticed is keepers appear to slide on the valve stem a bit due to groove on valves being bigger/wider than the lip on keepers. Can anyone confirm if this is normal or was I supplied the wrong parts? I went with Ferrea K10062. OEM keepers have fatter lips and wrap around as you'd expect them.

On a side note, I thought I'd design up a new valve spring seat that retains the same wall thickness (1mm) as the original seat but will also have an inner support like the top retainer now that we only have one spring. Would anyone be interested in a set? Only offering it up to fellow enthusiasts as it gets cheaper if I order more than one set, especially with post machine hardenning that is done per batch.

(Chris, I'll send a set over as soon as I'm done making them as a token of appreciation for your input. I'll PM you for address closer to the date).

SICAMG

As per Chris ....this is OK. I questioned it my self but if you look close at it the new keeper actually locks it self in two places. One is around the grove and the other is the very top of the grove. The keeper is jamming itself to the top.
I start mine Monday morning.

SICAMG

Not my pictures but perfect quality to see what we are looking at as far as fit go's.
See how it will jam itself to the top and will have no where to go ?
Actually in the picture the keeper is sitting low right now and will slide up more.

Alex L

Thanks. For some reason I've completely missed those pictures in the thread. I'm still months away from the actual finish but will start putting heads together soon.

SICAMG

I actually bought a set of N/A M113 heads to do flow testing on and would love to put them on, ported / bee hives set up, to speed things up. But....major concerns on if the rocker arm bridges can actually swap from head to head as these heads came with no rocker arms so my originals would have to be used on them. Any insight ??

Spring seats sound good that your looking to make as it was a real pain in the *** to grind 24 cups to fit the Bee Hive springs !!
Also you will not need an inner part to center the spring. As long as it's in the cup it will go no where and not walk around.

SICAMG

Sorry buddy, forgot your question was there. I sent it to Swain Tech in New York. A friend that builds Winston Cup cars swears by this and claims this is why they can tape the whole front grill and still not over heat.

Alex L

I believe that heads and bridges are bored/machined together.

Only thikning of making the inner part as it will add no cost to the product itself. Will be just a 0.1" tall step like the top retainer, nothing major.

BC928

It locks, but you are correct about some of the mismatch. It is not something an OEM would send out. The groove in the valve is not the same size as the keeper. But I don't think it will move around as the spring is pushing up as the valve is pushed down - thereby locking in the groove as well as the V area of the retainer.

Alex L

It looks promising to me too as valves will always be preloaded with tension by the springs. You just want it to be perfect right from the start. And off the shelf. And cheap ;-)

SICAMG

Just had a long talk with Ferrea and sent them pictures of the keepers and valves and they said it will be good to go. They also said you want to keep a Bee Hive spring around 60 thousands from bind as they will last longer due to the harmonics canceling them selves when the spring is compressed.

Hooblah

But the fact is that there is movement. The spring will keep it in one place, but let's not forget that the rpm is constantly changing. How does this situation play out when we factor in harmonics?

BC928

I guess we will find out.

SICAMG

The locks are jammed up on the groove AND the underneath of the head. They can not fall out due to spring pressure just like every other set up. Hopefully there will be no issues and from my questioning and research from every one else that has done this going back to when TTM was around building these heads with this combination......it will be fine. Watch ....mine will blow up LOL

Alex L

Been thinking about it. There’s no reason one cannot make a set of custom retainers to take the OE keepers. I’ll see if I’m up for it since I’m doing the spring seats anyway.