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Ferrea told me they do not make custom keepers so that's out.
Making the retainers would be an intense job getting the inside keeper angle for sure.
Again when you have this set up in front of you the ring groove is only part of the holding potential. The keeper is jammed up under the head as well and has no where to go....god willing !! LOL
I'd copy the anges off the original retainer and the rest (ID/OD) is published by Ferrea or can be measured with a vernier/micrometer. So designing the new retainer wouldn't be a big job.
As an example, here's a new valve seat that is 0.020" larger internally and externally:
Been thinking about it. There’s no reason one cannot make a set of custom retainers to take the OE keepers. I’ll see if I’m up for it since I’m doing the spring seats anyway.
I have already had these retainers made. They use the standard Mercedes keeper. I can check with the supplier for lead time and price. They are not cheap, made from titainium. Let me now the quantity, the more pieces and the price goes down.
The locks are jammed up on the groove AND the underneath of the head. They can not fall out due to spring pressure just like every other set up. Hopefully there will be no issues and from my questioning and research from every one else that has done this going back to when TTM was around building these heads with this combination......it will be fine. Watch ....mine will blow up LOL
I'm not querying whether the collet will jump out of the retainer, but whether there's movement between the collet and the valve. Going by the pics posted early in the thread, there seems to be room to do so. The springs should hold it shut, but you may find harmonics have a negative affect. I'm not saying it's a given, but it's definitely something to explore before saying YOLO and wrecking an engine.
I have also seen set ups from the factory that look funky and have no issues but that is also stock spring pressure but many thousands of miles as well.
Sir-boost-a-lot ran his to 7,500rpm to test and many miles with no issues along with all the other guys including TTM motorsports so I will go by his word.
This could be like a 82mm throttle body. Put one on works perfect like hundreds of others forever or.....nothing but issues LOL.
Springs are in and not without some fighting here and there LOL
Problem is I noticed some slight scoring on some of the cam bearing journals so..... I can leave it and let it ride as I had seen some marks when engine was apart 2 years ago or, pull cams and polish them and have them PC-9 coated in Teflon coating like engine bearings or go with new cams.
This new cam company Cat Cams is not answering or returning calls so will give it a week before I decide.
The strange thing on the cam journals is the cam bridge's and cylinder head half bores are like factory new yet a steel counter part has marks in it ?? The marks are not bad but still there.
Anyone seen some scouring on journals before?
( Still need to find out if VRP is actually thinking its a joke that I don't have a pulley for a year now - I can just make one, but its so frustrating with these aftermarket monkeys. Just because you have access to CNC doesn't make you an engineer, or really, a good business owner).
Maybe wear a back brace if the engine is in the car with you doing this.
SC pulley or crankshaft harmonic? If you need another source shoot me DM and I can hook you up with SoCal source.
Springs are in and not without some fighting here and there LOL
Problem is I noticed some slight scoring on the cam bearing journals so..... I can leave it, pull cams and polish them and have them coated in Teflon coating like engine bearings or go with new cams. This new cam company Cat Cams is not answering or returning calls so will give it a week before I decide.
Anyone seen some scouring on journals before?
. Who would you use to coat them? Will that add a lot of time?
Swain Coatings. I use them for everything and they are coating my inter cooler right now so wish I saw this a couple weeks ago.
Time wise two weeks total. I will see... I may just let it ride.
With changing seats and retainers, could someone confirm the new installed height of these springs?
I was looking at BTR springs which appear to be cheaper than the other offerings - under £200 for 32 springs. However what concerns me is that the specs state an installed height of 1.420, not 1.470 like other manufacturers.
The BTR website states that stock retainers can be used with BTR springs. Not sure if that's the case for others, and if that affects installed height.
I've had a Google and came up with inconclusive info. I also emailed BTR but there has been no response. Perhaps someone else is able to dig a little deeper?
It's a shame that I don't have easy access to these parts, else I'd be ordering different products and checking and returning what I don't need. Importing things gets costly when you factor in shipping (both ways) and duty.
I'm 95lb's at 1.520-1.530 so you will be much less. I have N/A heads that I bought to do all the measurements and everything is exact to the K heads...not port indifferences but everything including spring hieghts.
Your probably better off getting the same stuff we all used so it will be a no brainer.
What would happen if you had something shipped to you....how does the duty tax work if they don't know the value.
SC pulley or crankshaft harmonic? If you need another source shoot me DM and I can hook you up with SoCal source.
Sorry didn’t see this. I eventually got one. Engine is in the car 2 hours away so can’t fit it to find out if anything changed on the proper backspacing.
Brendan car is up and running. It's to cold ..25*..to kill it hard so will have to wait.
I will know if we accomplished anything by rpm limit now and the boost reading which should be higher with valves sealing at higher rpm. Will see.
Also porting a set of heads now for a swap out in the future and will just swap springs over before I do it.
one thing I wanted to add, Mercedes says m113 cylinder heads are not needed to be perfectly flat. Check out the technical documents on the matter, I was going to have a machine shop true my heads before I read that bit of info. I guess they assume the tightening torque of the head bolts will flatten the head just fine
another thing I saw while skimming was people discussing m113k springs vs n/a m113 springs, one thing I was unaware of for the longest time is that the m113k uses two springs per valve. My n/a 55 heads only ever had one spring per valve, so comparing only the big springs may not be accurate
Last edited by ctravis595; 01-21-2021 at 02:34 PM.
I'm not to sure on that as my set of N/A heads I am porting have EXACT spring/retainer/keeper/ spring cups as my M113K....even the spring pressure was about the same. Who knows with Mercedes !! LOL
I'm not to sure on that as my set of N/A heads I am porting have EXACT spring/retainer/keeper/ spring cups as my M113K....even the spring pressure was about the same. Who knows with Mercedes !! LOL
you had a n/a head with dual springs? Maybe that’s a post 2003 thing?
no real cups under my n/a 55 springs either, it was a simple washer/shim. The 55k heads I have, they do indeed have the cups
They are 03-06 CLK 55 heads , just looked them up again to make sure. You had me wondering for a few....
wow so even the n/a 55 motors after 2003 had double springs, seems Mercedes believed in more spring pressure for the m113 as it got older...
I’ve seen some earlier comments about the n/a vs 55k heads for flow and porting. The valves are all identical if I’m not mistaken, but there are a few notable differences in the runners
55 n/a (pre 2003 at least) heads have a thinner, more aerodynamic dividing wall between the intake valves. I agree with other’s assessments that this feature in particular can make the 55 n/a heads swallow air much better.
55 n/a heads have two “bumps” in the exhaust runner, which would obviously hinder flow compared to 55k heads on the exhaust side
basically it seems 55 n/a has a better intake side and 55k has a better output side. I’ve chosen to port my 55 n/a heads for my twin turbo m113 build. I will be using the 55k springs with some RaceIQ street beast cams I just picked up in a trade
I think this motor and these heads can really shine with the right turbo setup. A basic rundown of my w215 build is
-55 n/a block and crank
-55k pistons and rods, widening the piston end ring gap (and subsequently re-working the breathing system of the engine as a whole )
-55 n/a heads with 55k springs
-street beast cams
-2x gt2860 style turbos (went for the biggest AR sizes I could find for small format turbos)
-possible e85 and piggyback ecu conversions
-custom stainless turbo manifolds
12-19-2020, 07:31 AM
