Lightweight beehive valve springs for your M113K Mercedes
01-22-2021, 01:20 PM
#152
MBWorld Fanatic!
OK just came back from a extreme beating for data logs and what not and to see if the valves where going to fall out. LOL So great news....everything worked perfect and engine revved to 6,700 "limiter" like clock work and it would have gone more as it does not have that "lay over" sensation above 5,500 anymore and makes more boost up top so all and all I would say a success.
Pulled rockers and checked two valves and see no "rotational" marks on the keepers or anything odd so that's good news. Spring pressure's still held at 100 psi too as they will normally loose 5 percent when they go through the first heat cycle.
Pulled rockers and checked two valves and see no "rotational" marks on the keepers or anything odd so that's good news. Spring pressure's still held at 100 psi too as they will normally loose 5 percent when they go through the first heat cycle.
Last edited by SICAMG; 01-23-2021 at 07:29 AM.
02-01-2021, 09:32 PM
#154
MBWorld Fanatic!
Had to retune the ecu from Tony. You need to have a higher rev limit on the ECU than the TCU. So lets say 6,800 ECU and 6,500 on the TCU to get a true 6,500 is my understanding.
Last edited by SICAMG; 02-03-2021 at 06:08 PM.
03-04-2021, 05:25 PM
#155
Yes thanks.
Currently the exchange rate sits at £1 = $1.4.
Just a quick check on Jegs and Comp 61123 springs appear to be sold in 16 and 32 packs. Buying 24 individual springs costs a few $ less than a 32 pack, so it would make sense to do some sort of group buy.
3x 32 springs can be separated out to 4x 24 springs. This gives us a saving of $100. So rather than forking out $400 with springs to spare, you essentially pay $300 for a full set of 24.
I haven't done too much research on price, perhaps someone more familiar with the US market can get a better deal? Would also be worth looking into seats, collets and retainers.
It's great to hear everything's working out well for you. Is it all over by 6700rpm? It would be nice to see how far you can wind it out and still make power.
I still have to finish making chassis modifications before I can start to tear my engine apart. I've only managed to clean it so far...
What did you mean about the spark plugs? Why is it very important to remember that NA heads have a shorter plug?
BTW my m113 came out of a ML55. Are the cams different on these?
Currently the exchange rate sits at £1 = $1.4.
Just a quick check on Jegs and Comp 61123 springs appear to be sold in 16 and 32 packs. Buying 24 individual springs costs a few $ less than a 32 pack, so it would make sense to do some sort of group buy.
3x 32 springs can be separated out to 4x 24 springs. This gives us a saving of $100. So rather than forking out $400 with springs to spare, you essentially pay $300 for a full set of 24.
I haven't done too much research on price, perhaps someone more familiar with the US market can get a better deal? Would also be worth looking into seats, collets and retainers.
It's great to hear everything's working out well for you. Is it all over by 6700rpm? It would be nice to see how far you can wind it out and still make power.
I still have to finish making chassis modifications before I can start to tear my engine apart. I've only managed to clean it so far...
What did you mean about the spark plugs? Why is it very important to remember that NA heads have a shorter plug?
BTW my m113 came out of a ML55. Are the cams different on these?
Last edited by Hooblah; 03-04-2021 at 05:32 PM.
03-04-2021, 06:37 PM
#156
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes it's all done at 6,700 if not sooner but on the next shift it's much better off in a higher power band. When I go to the track in April I will know for sure any changes.
The N/A plugs are shorter than the K heads and if you put the long style into a N/A head the piston will smack the plug !!
Not sure on the cams I will have to look into that.
The N/A plugs are shorter than the K heads and if you put the long style into a N/A head the piston will smack the plug !!
Not sure on the cams I will have to look into that.
Last edited by SICAMG; 03-04-2021 at 06:40 PM.
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Hooblah (03-04-2021)
03-04-2021, 06:48 PM
#157
Is that with the factory cams?
I saw you mention cat cams in an earlier post. If you need help obtaining a pair then I may be able to help you out.
Something worth noting is that the specs they advertise may not be the most suitable, I'm sure they would grind them to a specific spec if asked.
I saw you mention cat cams in an earlier post. If you need help obtaining a pair then I may be able to help you out.
Something worth noting is that the specs they advertise may not be the most suitable, I'm sure they would grind them to a specific spec if asked.
03-05-2021, 09:41 AM
#158
MBWorld Fanatic!
Stock cams are still used.
Cat Cams is impossible to contact even through venders who claim they will contact them and me back.
I was looking at the 4003612 cam. 220-228 duration and .423-.442 lift and is a little bigger than stock and should drive well. Would love to get a price on them.
Also for what it's worth I had ported a set of N/A heads and had them flowed but did not have the rocker bridges so decided to go with real M113K heads complete with bridges and port them . The difference between the exhaust ports is significant "major" to say the least, much larger on the K heads, and will be using these instead. Intake ports are much cleaner in the chambers as well. Will have these flowed shortly and see.
Do you need a set of M113k camshafts?
Cat Cams is impossible to contact even through venders who claim they will contact them and me back.
I was looking at the 4003612 cam. 220-228 duration and .423-.442 lift and is a little bigger than stock and should drive well. Would love to get a price on them.
Also for what it's worth I had ported a set of N/A heads and had them flowed but did not have the rocker bridges so decided to go with real M113K heads complete with bridges and port them . The difference between the exhaust ports is significant "major" to say the least, much larger on the K heads, and will be using these instead. Intake ports are much cleaner in the chambers as well. Will have these flowed shortly and see.
Do you need a set of M113k camshafts?
Last edited by SICAMG; 03-05-2021 at 11:17 AM.
03-05-2021, 12:37 PM
#159
Stock cams are still used.
Cat Cams is impossible to contact even through venders who claim they will contact them and me back.
I was looking at the 4003612 cam. 220-228 duration and .423-.442 lift and is a little bigger than stock and should drive well. Would love to get a price on them.
Also for what it's worth I had ported a set of N/A heads and had them flowed but did not have the rocker bridges so decided to go with real M113K heads complete with bridges and port them . The difference between the exhaust ports is significant "major" to say the least, much larger on the K heads, and will be using these instead. Intake ports are much cleaner in the chambers as well. Will have these flowed shortly and see.
Do you need a set of M113k camshafts?
Cat Cams is impossible to contact even through venders who claim they will contact them and me back.
I was looking at the 4003612 cam. 220-228 duration and .423-.442 lift and is a little bigger than stock and should drive well. Would love to get a price on them.
Also for what it's worth I had ported a set of N/A heads and had them flowed but did not have the rocker bridges so decided to go with real M113K heads complete with bridges and port them . The difference between the exhaust ports is significant "major" to say the least, much larger on the K heads, and will be using these instead. Intake ports are much cleaner in the chambers as well. Will have these flowed shortly and see.
Do you need a set of M113k camshafts?
I imagine prices for all of them are pretty much the same. I had a quote a couple of years ago which was around £1200. I was considering a modified version of 4003605, but I'm not sure how much clearance we have for lift. Does anyone know?
Can the ports on a NA head be opened up further to match the K heads, or will you hit a coolant passage?
Will the K cams make any difference on a NA? It's probably not worth it.
03-05-2021, 07:41 PM
#160
MBWorld Fanatic!
Stock is the first cam they list so this is a slight increase with the next one up with a decent idle.
I can't find N/A cam specs but the K cams are a little bigger according to MB when they where assembling there engines in a factory video.
I can't find N/A cam specs but the K cams are a little bigger according to MB when they where assembling there engines in a factory video.
03-15-2021, 03:19 PM
#162
MBWorld Fanatic!
even worse is the 55 n/a cams seemed to change a lot.. there are apparently different cams for 99-00 55 n/a cams, 01-02 cams and 03+ cams as well. Hence why I’ve seen folks argue about the true specs
03-15-2021, 06:29 PM
#163
MBWorld Fanatic!
I would like to have a set ground since I bought a spare set for that reason. Then again VRP is claiming almost 800 hp with a stock engine sooooooo ....why bother with cams ??
03-18-2021, 05:18 AM
#164
Senior Member
OK just came back from a extreme beating for data logs and what not and to see if the valves where going to fall out. LOL So great news....everything worked perfect and engine revved to 6,700 "limiter" like clock work and it would have gone more as it does not have that "lay over" sensation above 5,500 anymore and makes more boost up top so all and all I would say a success.
Pulled rockers and checked two valves and see no "rotational" marks on the keepers or anything odd so that's good news. Spring pressure's still held at 100 psi too as they will normally loose 5 percent when they go through the first heat cycle.
Pulled rockers and checked two valves and see no "rotational" marks on the keepers or anything odd so that's good news. Spring pressure's still held at 100 psi too as they will normally loose 5 percent when they go through the first heat cycle.
03-26-2021, 11:41 AM
#166
Btw if you're giving those cams away then I'd be interested in having them. For research purposes of course :P
03-26-2021, 02:25 PM
#167
MBWorld Fanatic!
Just took heads apart due to cracking a piston and everything looks good. No issues with valve keepers or valve it self with about 1,000 miles....not a lot but whatever.
04-04-2021, 07:39 AM
#168
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hooblah I would love to give away the cams but the cores are worth too much. Still trying to decide on cam upgrade or keep it stock.I have almost given up on Cat Cams with communication.
04-04-2021, 07:12 PM
#169
Are you messaging cat cams USA? I've spoken with one of their dealers here in the UK a couple of years ago. I got prices etc and gained a lot of knowledge from that person. I could potentially go back to them and enquire on your behalf if you'd like me to? I have a business in the automotive trade, so I may even have the potential to become an official dealer if necessary.
The other question is why cat cams? I'd imagine that there are several companies in the US that can make cams. Are none of them interested? There's a few companies in the UK that make cams, and I'm sure they'd be glad to take on the job.
Btw are m113 cams hollow? I read somewhere that they were, and simply had the lobes pressed on.
04-04-2021, 08:34 PM
#170
MBWorld Fanatic!
Aside from Kleeman cams.... and they are not much bigger than stock I know of know one else.. Also they have a very large collection of grinds for the M113K engines. There is the Race IQ cams but they are really choppy at idle...it's more lift that I am after really.
The only Cat cams I know of besides a distributer in the USA is only in the UK.
The cams are hollow but the lobes are one piece on the shaft.
Anyway I may just leave the stock cams and see how she runs with the ported heads.
The only Cat cams I know of besides a distributer in the USA is only in the UK.
The cams are hollow but the lobes are one piece on the shaft.
Anyway I may just leave the stock cams and see how she runs with the ported heads.
04-05-2021, 12:37 PM
#171
If you really want, I can look into it for you. Whether that's through cat cams or an alternative supplier. I doubt you'll get hollow shaft cams, most likely billet (pretty sure cat cams are billet). There's a company that's not too far away from me, and I could even drop off a set of oe cams for them to look at.
The other question that remains is how much lift can you run without having to clearance the pistons?
The other question that remains is how much lift can you run without having to clearance the pistons?
04-05-2021, 07:09 PM
#172
MBWorld Fanatic!
If you don't mind that would be great with the cams.
The 450-460 range should be fine with almost stock duration.
As far as billet cams.....I think they have to be hollow for the oil flow no ????
Maybe not.
The 450-460 range should be fine with almost stock duration.
As far as billet cams.....I think they have to be hollow for the oil flow no ????
Maybe not.
Last edited by SICAMG; 04-05-2021 at 08:37 PM.
