AZBENZ-CTSV

^^^^^ this

JumpinJim

The new E63 won't be that fast. There was a mag, and I don't remember which one, which has tested one and it has a quicker ET, but not 11.3 quick, but also a slower trap speed despite the extra power. AWD parasitic drivetrain loss and it gained an extra 150lbs over the rwd model. It's a porker of a car, heavier than the M5 and there with RS7. The RS7 tips the scales at ~4500lbs so a lightweight it is not.

Vic55

Agree, we wont see an E63 AWD trap that high... its the new Panamera from Benz LOL; quick from a dig but it will lose more effective hp with the AWD system as you mentioned. It needs a DCT no doubt. The MCT as strong as it is; is not as efficient as the DCT.

Hotsoss

I know it's supercar quick no doubt, but for the exception of the M5 those other cars will be just as quick off the line with their AWD Twin turbo V8s if not quicker. Look at the S8 it can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. I don't think a lighter more powerful RS7 will be slower. The E63 4matic is gone to be a game changer! I predict this car will do 0-60 in the very low 3s. The E63 and RS7 will also trap higher then 120mph in the 1/4 mile stock meaning they have more top end rolling speed. I will admit "the long in the tooth" description was a bit harsh and inaccurate, but the RS7 and E63 will outperform it for far less money (New vs New). For the money I would take the E63 4matic. That car with a tune will eat a Panamera Turbo S and regurgitate it guts out of its tailpipes.

Road Presence:
I'm not so sure about this one either. Sure a Panamera looks fantastic, but only a very well trained eye will be able to decipher a turbo S from a lesser model upon casual glance. The same can be said about the M5 too until you see the twin exhaust outlets. In the end all of the cars mentioned in this thread has wicked road presence (RS7,M5,E63,XFR,CLS63,CTS-V, and Panamera) and I would be happy driving any of them.

Hotsoss

Dang, I stand corrected then. I thought it would be faster stock, but your points about parasitic drivetrain loss and extra weight make sense. I still would take it though and add a tune.

AMGSC

I read the same article. The 4Matic is heavy and has lower trap speed but better traction obviously will help with the ET.

I've also seen some sketches of the new M5 and M6s with the lower roof line and wider stance/fenders on some magazines (Forget which - I subscribe to Automobile, Car and Driver, Road and Trank and Motortrend).

After reading all your opinions, I am starting to reconsider the RS7 (It really does not look aggressive enough for me) plus I can't even get a dealer quote response nor from Carsdirect. I guess I can hold out another year and wait for the 2015 models. Hopefully by then we could be looking at 600hp stock with better fuel efficiency (ie. four cylinder mode like the RS7) in the performance AMGs and Ms as well.

SMP

I could have bought any of the cars mentioned ... they're all great cars ... but decided on the F10 M5. For a couple of reasons ... I like the way the car looks ... of course to the untrained eye it's pretty close to a regular 5 series, which I prefer since it's my daily driver .. blends nicely in.

What I like about the M5: I really like the way it looks. I ordered mine with Merino full leather interior ... makes a big difference. I hate plastic All the controls are easy to use without taking your eyes off the road ... try that in a Panamera. The clarity of the HUD is insane ... was kind of crappy in my E63 M6. The seats could be tighter ... especially for my built ... I couldn't order the adjustable side bolsters, which they offer in European models. My only "real" complaint.

Even though it's turbo charged, the engine feels and responds like a naturally aspirated one. In Sport+ throttle response is close to perfection. No lag or delay whatsoever ... the Panamera's is a joke compared to the M5's. The M5's engine has a very flat torque curve ... starting from 1500 to about 5500. Above that, the engine sound changes and the car pulls big time up top. Since I picked up the car in Germany, I had plenty of opportunities to go for top speed runs. The DCT is a perfect match for the engine characteristics. Depending on which program you select, from "tame" to "the differential is coming apart". Very quick and responsive gear changes.

Considering it's a porker, it handles quiet well and hides it's weight ... however, it's not agile and under braking you can feel the weight ... especially on mountain roads through Austria and Italy. But than again, wasn't designed for that anyway. It handles transitions pretty good, especially in sport+ and has a lot of mechanical grip. The PSS suit the car well. The car was so stable on my top speed runs on the Autobahn that it was "almost" boring. I was born in Germany, so that might be a factor as well ... I'm used to that kind of speed from an early age

All together, it's a lot of performance, fun and convenience in a 4 door sedan for a little more than a 100K.

Hotsoss

SMP: That's the best personal review for a M5 I have ever read! That makes me want to go straight to a BMW dealership and test drive one lol.

Fly by night

I'd choose the Panamera turbo and I'm a Benz loyalist. I test drove one for a few hours and the acceleration from a dig was incredible. I also think its the best looking of the bunch. You can't go wrong with any of the choices as all are great cars.

Good luck!

Rafiki

Did you just say the panamera is the best looking of the bunch , woow I reserve my comments

AMGSC

There's no accounting for taste. Just like people, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Fly by night

pure style and looks
1. Panamera
2. Audi

If you were to put these cars in a circle of people to look at and gravitate towards its pretty certain the winner would be the Panamera based on what I experienced from other drivers and comments made during my time with the car. It'll be my next ride when my S class is done.

TMC M5

I agree dynamically the Panamera Turbo is an incredible car. I love the style of the front of the car but I just can't get past the rear end... the hatchback thing is just a turn-off.....but to each his own...

AMGSC

This car is pretty much purchased a la carte style. So many options that should be standard causes the MSRP to skyrocket. Plus the fact that no discounts off MSRP on Carsdirect.com

Hotsoss

I like the look of the RS7 and AMGs. These pics were snapped at the 2013 NY Auto Show.

HeissRod

The new front end of the E63 still reminds me of a samurai mask's mouth.

You mean like the rear end of the A7? It reminds me of the back end of the sinfully ugly 550i GT or the X6. There is no rear deck. It just slopes down to a drop-off. Audi has done a much better job of that styling execution, but it still looks off to me.

Rafiki

I can never ever get past the rear end of the Panny, RS7 , if beauty was in the eye of the beholder then the Pontiac Aztek must be gorgeous haha

TMC M5

I agree ..the rear end of the RS7 is its visual downfall as well.

Style_Front

It would be BMW or Benz for me. The look of the audi does nothing for me and I doubt it does any thing better performance wise.

Pro's of BMW
Exterior
Transmission
Handles better

Pro's of E63
4wd
way more power potential in the motor

I see the OP lives in socal so weather isnt really a thing but I like to snowboard so the AWD would probly be enough to see me into the Benz. Plus with a tune the hole shot will probly be violent from a dig. I like that. Both great cars.

Then theres the Panamera. I love this car. Proper transmission, well sorted handling, AWD, exterior speaks well enough to me, plenty of power potential. This car is the no brainer for me. Its a more complete package geared towards performance while still being a quality luxury sedan you can drive to vegas, the store, down the 1/4 and around a road course fairly well in.

gaspam

i love audis but the 7's i just cant find attractive due to the rear end... you have to look at it just right from the rear for it to look good, but from every other angle from the rear it looks like poop sauce like the panamera...

this is the only good rearend pic i could find as all others looks crap

Ezec63

Guys dont forget about the frequently reported issues of heatsoak with the F10 M5 and its S63tu engine. Sure the car has run good magazine times and put down ridiculous 500+whp dyno numbers stock. But run it in hot weather or go for a long highway pull and the power will start dropping dramatically a test done by Evolve in the UK showed power dropping OVER +50WHP ! from a couple dyno runs ! Thats unacceptable and i wouldnt consider one until a solution is released.

The turbos being in the valley of the engine contribute to the engines quick spool and good throttle response for a turbo car but they are also radiating alot of heat right on top of the intake manifold/airboxes.

Id go for the AMG AWD and with a tune the M157 is in a different league than the S63tu. its a torque monster and the grip of AWD will make it a very fun car.

JUST MY OPINION !

Hotsoss

Agreed!

TMC M5

In DC metro heat and humidity (82+degrees) my F10 M5 trapped 120.87mph without launch control....my 240+lbs, a 5/8 tank of gas (tank holds 21.1 gallons) on a track not known for high trap speeds (ask Benzo-Rama how his traps are at 75-80 Dragway). Yes my car has Supersprint race mufflers (which weigh about 1lb more than the stock piece I cut out and probably give tiny hp increase) and K&N drop-in filters. This is real world info...not on a dyno where they purposely didn't allow a cool down and the M5's ECU pulls timing when it starts to sense air speeds that don't match the indicated speed of the car. Even at a drag strip you get to cool down when coasting back down from 120mph +... and get the benefit of the return lane to move some air into the heat exchangers while not under load and under boost. The Evolve test is rigged to show the absolute worst case scenario that wouldn't play out the same way on the street... they are planning to make products (and money) on just dyno info without actually testing the IATs out on the street where it will move much more air over the heat exchangers and radiators...

Can someone show me a non-tuned E63 Biturbo with PP that traps 120+mph in 2k'+ DA?

JumpinJim

The M157 heatsoaks just as badly. My CLS could only get 1 run in before it was heatsoaked and couldn't recover on the highway in the TX heat. Dyno results would also vary wildly.

JumpinJim

I'm taking my M5 to the track tomorrow. Do you remember what settings you were using for tranmission, suspension, throttle, etc. There's so many combinations it's hard to figure out where to start.