W211 AMG Discuss the W211 AMG's such as the E55 and the E63
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Full exhaust without ECU tune - Safe?

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Old 10-07-2013, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
Maybe 2-3 months because I am now broke again after the exhaust and IC pump. I could just about afford modding my C32 but the E55 is another story - thankfully the build quality is top notch so I don't have to keep replacing irritating parts like valeo radiators, alternators, starter motors, electric window mechs and satnav LCD screens, etc - just tyres, brake pads and fuel. I was just looking at a quote I got from another reputable tuner and he guarantees only 50kw with crank pulley, decat and software. Now I am doubting my figures, but lets wait and see, because I know he is very conservative with his mods. I also spoke to a chap in Umhlanga who reckons his E55 makes 550kw rear wheels without nitrous? This is why I hate figures because everyone has their own. Either your car drops X or it doesn't - finished and klaar.
I hear you, very true... That's why I always start with a baseline dyno and always use the same dyno. therefore you can see the differences for real on paper.. It also depends on what work the other car has had done to it, whether they admit it to you or not That E55 figure is huge!!! Lucky bugger is in my old town nicely on the beach enjoying all the air! We unfortunately just cant see those gains being so high up here in joeys.
Old 10-07-2013, 09:31 AM
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03 E55 AMG
I dunno, have a look at a thread on this forum titled: Jerry EC tune = 605whp. Amazing results from just a tune! I might not be far off at all.
I agree about sea level vs us at 1800m above it. Thats what I love about S/C cars vs N/A - we have an unfair advantage over them. Maybe I should only get my car dynoed at the coast - just might never come home again afterwards.
Will keep you posted in a few months and hook up for a run to see the difference between our 2 cars.
Old 10-07-2013, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
I dunno, have a look at a thread on this forum titled: Jerry EC tune = 605whp. Amazing results from just a tune! I might not be far off at all.
I agree about sea level vs us at 1800m above it. Thats what I love about S/C cars vs N/A - we have an unfair advantage over them. Maybe I should only get my car dynoed at the coast - just might never come home again afterwards.
Will keep you posted in a few months and hook up for a run to see the difference between our 2 cars.
Great sounds like a plan, and look forward to it.
PS: I was reading every forum regarding the tune and pulley upgrades and power increases. That is why I was expecting 40-50RWHP gains for what I had done, as many cars > 10 had at least a 40RWHP gain... I was no where close, only achieving 15RWHP with exact same setup, except my tune was not a flash tune, but done on the dyno. After all my calculations and working back to front, side to side and upside down it seems what I am getting boost wise out of the car is right on the money for this altitude. I am dying to head to the coast to do a dyno run there and see the difference Hmmm... Road trip ??? hahaha Do you have any way of measuring your boost? Would love to compare with another 55K motor up here.
Old 10-08-2013, 07:02 AM
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03 E55 AMG
Just figured out why your figures seem so low and mine seem so high.
You are quoting rwhp and I am quoting engine kw/hp - it all makes sense now.
I know my method is *** backward and rwhp is the true measurement, but I suppose I have been around dealers to long who quote engine output to inflate their figures. Jeez, you must have been tearing your hair out?
I am gunning for 400kw or 540hp on the engine with just a pipe and tune for starters (easy), after that with pulley and meth we will see if I can get to 600 engine hp.
Sorry for your troubles.
Old 10-08-2013, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
Just figured out why your figures seem so low and mine seem so high.
You are quoting rwhp and I am quoting engine kw/hp - it all makes sense now.
I know my method is *** backward and rwhp is the true measurement, but I suppose I have been around dealers to long who quote engine output to inflate their figures. Jeez, you must have been tearing your hair out?
I am gunning for 400kw or 540hp on the engine with just a pipe and tune for starters (easy), after that with pulley and meth we will see if I can get to 600 engine hp.
Sorry for your troubles.
Lol, that's classic, ok makes sense then regarding the figures and some confusion. I always like to know what is actually getting put down to the ground, hence the RWHP figures, with no correction factors, don't believe in them. WE feel what the car is putting down, not in a dream world where we not living at hahaha. Yeah it was a huge bummer the gains, but as others have said, they reckon I got cooling issues as my IATS are to high and pulling timing. So I am gonna get that sorted out and then on the dyno again to see if there is anything in there. Thereafter hopefully exhaust. Sjoe, cant wait to see you get your numbers! That's going to be awesome especially up here! Some guys gonna get a hiding proper lol Saw an E55 run at tarlton on Friday night. Think putting down around 460RWHP, did the 1/4 in 12.8 and the track was moist, not good conditions.
Old 10-08-2013, 07:36 AM
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Guess I have forgotten how it is done since I sold my C32 - always swore by what was on the rear wheels and laughed at guys who quoted engine output (La la land exactly). Been out of the game for 2 years and had an ML320 cdi and a Suzuki Jimny in between AMG's so my brain obviously turned to mush and I bought into the sales pitch BS again like a 12 year old. I hate that AMG's run so damn hot up here - mine is always between 95 - 100 degrees. I spoke to a mate who owns a major engine rebuild company and he reckons that it is normal and safe because the newer technology allows engines to operate more efficiently at higher temps. This is why I have my heart set on meth/water. It is cheap, not to bad to install, makes more power with higher octane, steam cleans your pistons, drops your engine temp & charge temp, and allows you to safely advance your timing quite a bit. Just not in the mood to have a large reservoir in my boot yet and no space up front.
Old 10-08-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
Guess I have forgotten how it is done since I sold my C32 - always swore by what was on the rear wheels and laughed at guys who quoted engine output (La la land exactly). Been out of the game for 2 years and had an ML320 cdi and a Suzuki Jimny in between AMG's so my brain obviously turned to mush and I bought into the sales pitch BS again like a 12 year old. I hate that AMG's run so damn hot up here - mine is always between 95 - 100 degrees. I spoke to a mate who owns a major engine rebuild company and he reckons that it is normal and safe because the newer technology allows engines to operate more efficiently at higher temps. This is why I have my heart set on meth/water. It is cheap, not to bad to install, makes more power with higher octane, steam cleans your pistons, drops your engine temp & charge temp, and allows you to safely advance your timing quite a bit. Just not in the mood to have a large reservoir in my boot yet and no space up front.
Yowzers must be the coolant temp you referring to being 95-100.. yes 95 is pretty normal, I was referring to the intake temperatures after a good stab at the peddle, they really climb high and beyond a certain point the ecu pulls timing, reducing your output until temps have recovered. Now on the dyno, those silly fans don't do much compared to open road, especially after back to back runs, so your intake temps get quite high, which is what I think happened on my unfortunate day and the car was pulling timing. So going to upgrade the intercooler and split the cooling. Hopefully that helps. Yeah I never believe these so called crank power figures that are corrected and what not... Just give me wheel horse power then we talking LOL at going back to AMG's, they are so damn addictive, I swear I am married to the brand now.
Old 10-08-2013, 08:30 AM
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03 E55 AMG
What you are mentioning sounds like the dreaded supercharger heat soak. I had it in my C32 and found it very quickly in my E55. I can do one good run, but have to cool the car off before I can repeat it - which is damn annoying when racing from robot to robot against a car you know you can destroy. I spent weeks researching and decided to go for the Bosch 010 IC pump upgrade because the johnson CM30 and Mezziere are not available in SA. Bosch are sold out in SA and in Germany(where they are manufactured) so I bought one off Ebay from the States, which should have been delivered last Friday, but good old SA customs has other ideas so I don't know when I will get it. It is an easy DIY install and sorts out most of your IC shutdown problems, but if you are more serious then you need a trunk cooler (simple split cooling is not adequate from what I have read). If you want I have contact details of a guy in Umhlanga who imports trunk coolers and other bits?
Old 10-08-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
What you are mentioning sounds like the dreaded supercharger heat soak. I had it in my C32 and found it very quickly in my E55. I can do one good run, but have to cool the car off before I can repeat it - which is damn annoying when racing from robot to robot against a car you know you can destroy. I spent weeks researching and decided to go for the Bosch 010 IC pump upgrade because the johnson CM30 and Mezziere are not available in SA. Bosch are sold out in SA and in Germany(where they are manufactured) so I bought one off Ebay from the States, which should have been delivered last Friday, but good old SA customs has other ideas so I don't know when I will get it. It is an easy DIY install and sorts out most of your IC shutdown problems, but if you are more serious then you need a trunk cooler (simple split cooling is not adequate from what I have read). If you want I have contact details of a guy in Umhlanga who imports trunk coolers and other bits?
Thanks James, yip certainly is the dreaded heat soak story, anyway I will be upgrading the pump when I do the bigger intercooler all at the same time. Amazing there is no stock of that pump here, so frustrating. We have to bloody import everything Anyway thanks for the offer, I don't want to go the whole hog with a trunk cooler setup, I bit much for me, don't think I will be chasing the big horsepower numbers for that setup. So frustrating the customs story! Hopefully it arrives this week. Have you got a way of logging or at least monitoring your IATS? Would love to see the results of just the Bosch pump upgrade to see if that has any effect at all. I use an app on my android phone called Torque.
Old 10-08-2013, 09:17 AM
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Jislaaik you are a technical oke. Nope I don't have anything to measure with - if I get heat soak then my pump aint working. If I don't get heat soak then all is good in the land of my E55. Get meth - starter kits for R 5000.00 from Devils Own and they blast straight into the Y-pipe for awesome cooling and added ponies.
Old 10-10-2013, 12:33 AM
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You mentioned you are going to upgrade your heat exchanger - are you going to custom fit an intercooler in front of your radiator? The heat issues with these cars seems to never end and I cant find any other way that would work better.
I am also not into installing a trunk tank and would be very interested in how to go about installing an intercooler. I met a C32 fanatic who was so desperate that last I heard he was going to cut a hole in his bonnet and install a Subaru type, water injected, intercooler because of lack of space up front.
Old 10-10-2013, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
You mentioned you are going to upgrade your heat exchanger - are you going to custom fit an intercooler in front of your radiator? The heat issues with these cars seems to never end and I cant find any other way that would work better.
I am also not into installing a trunk tank and would be very interested in how to go about installing an intercooler. I met a C32 fanatic who was so desperate that last I heard he was going to cut a hole in his bonnet and install a Subaru type, water injected, intercooler because of lack of space up front.
Yeah exactly mate. Going to take off the stock intercooler and bolt on a bigger one with better pump. But like you, i need to save a few bux first to pay for the mods. Just installed other stuff for now and need to recover. hells that's going all for that C32
Nice
Old 10-10-2013, 03:59 AM
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I haven't looked at the E55 charge cooler yet, but if it is anything like the C32 then how do you upgrade it? Wasn't it sandwiched between the S/C and cylinder heads? My brain is working overtime and I am trying to come up with either an air cooler - turbo inter cooler style - mounted in front of the radiator (lots of plumbing) or a second small water cooler also mounted in front of the radiator plumbed into the existing charge cooling hose system. I reckon I can buy the small radiator here for under 1 grand and the hoses and clamps for under R 200.00. I don't think the upgraded Bosch 010 will have a problem with the extra liquid and there is no need to change wiring, just a few extra hoses and a few more litres of liquid in the existing system. Beats the hell out of a trunk tank cooler IMO. I must apologize to you again because I have once again quoted my expected power gains for sea level and totally forgot that I have lived in Joburg for most of my life - one of these days I will get it right.
The bucks factor with these cars in SA is a killer and waiting for imported parts that may or may not arrive is a pain in the ...... and whats going on with the costs of living/no work available in SA at the moment? If my wife finds out how much my exhaust cost and how much a tune is going to cost, I am a dead man. Reckon maybe 2 years of slowly budgeting and upgrading - by then the twin turbo 5.5L E-class will be out and we have to start all over again!

Last edited by James M; 10-10-2013 at 05:17 AM.
Old 10-10-2013, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
I haven't looked at the E55 charge cooler yet, but if it is anything like the C32 then how do you upgrade it? Wasn't it sandwiched between the S/C and cylinder heads? My brain is working overtime and I am trying to come up with either an air cooler - turbo inter cooler style - mounted in front of the radiator (lots of plumbing) or a second small water cooler also mounted in front of the radiator plumbed into the existing charge cooling hose system. I reckon I can buy the small radiator here for under 1 grand and the hoses and clamps for under R 200.00. I don't think the upgraded Bosch 010 will have a problem with the extra liquid and there is no need to change wiring, just a few extra hoses and a few more litres of liquid in the existing system. Beats the hell out of a trunk tank cooler IMO. I must apologize to you again because I have once again quoted my expected power gains for sea level and totally forgot that I have lived in Joburg for most of my life - one of these days I will get it right.
The bucks factor with these cars in SA is a killer and waiting for imported parts that may or may not arrive is a pain in the ...... and whats going on with the costs of living/no work available and high cost of living in SA at the moment? If my wife finds out how much my exhaust cost and how much a tune is going to cost, I am a dead man. Reckon maybe 2 years of slowly budgeting and upgrading - by then the twin turbo 5.5L E-class will be out and we have to start all over again!
LOL you make me laugh boet. Totally understand about the Mrs. **** she knows exactly when I am buying parts, I just get the look and question '"so what is this amount for? " and I am totally busted lol. They will unfortunately never understand this dreaded disease we suffer. Anyway you call me technical, hells bells mate you going to tackle this project on your own. Got to do a write up mate. Very interested in what you got planned. Mine was a simple swap out of the existing intercooler. It sits in front of the radiator on the lower air dam. So basically it sits just below the number plate. That thing is tiny, so just going to try get a bigger thicker one to bolt on in place so adding to the amount of liquid basically, and then run a bigger pump and split the cooling. That's all I got planned. Hope that makes a little more sense. I think you were thinking of the top mount intercooler, sorry I was referring to the heat exchanger up front.
Old 10-10-2013, 05:13 AM
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You hit the nail on the head - didn't know there was a front mount cooler. That's exactly what I am going to do - replace that little bugger for the biggest I can get. Easy job, but do you still need to split it after a bigger cooler? To my understanding splitting is installing another small reservoir inside the engine bay that holds 1-2L max? Wish we could just scavenge from the aircond and plumb it in to the intercooler - that would be seriously cool.
Luckily for me I am self employed and every now and then a customer pays in cash so I set it aside for 'car funds'. I get caught when the car is gone for a week to get something done! Yes this is a disease - last night I spent a few hours perving over some dudes Lime green, twin turbo Lambo Gallardo with 1250RWHP. That thing is stupid fast and I really, really need one. Wanna open a Teazers with me - Lolly had plenty cars in his garage?
Anyway I am chuffed that what I was planning to do, has already been done so it wont be hard to find info and advice. My new mod list is: install IC pump (if it ever gets here), upgrade front cooler, tune. That should do it for this year and next year I can look at crank pulley and meth, unless 2014 is like 2013 finacially. When will this damn recession end????

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Old 10-10-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
You hit the nail on the head - didn't know there was a front mount cooler. That's exactly what I am going to do - replace that little bugger for the biggest I can get. Easy job, but do you still need to split it after a bigger cooler? To my understanding splitting is installing another small reservoir inside the engine bay that holds 1-2L max? Wish we could just scavenge from the aircond and plumb it in to the intercooler - that would be seriously cool.
Luckily for me I am self employed and every now and then a customer pays in cash so I set it aside for 'car funds'. I get caught when the car is gone for a week to get something done! Yes this is a disease - last night I spent a few hours perving over some dudes Lime green, twin turbo Lambo Gallardo with 1250RWHP. That thing is stupid fast and I really, really need one. Wanna open a Teazers with me - Lolly had plenty cars in his garage?
Anyway I am chuffed that what I was planning to do, has already been done so it wont be hard to find info and advice. My new mod list is: install IC pump (if it ever gets here), upgrade front cooler, tune. That should do it for this year and next year I can look at crank pulley and meth, unless 2014 is like 2013 finacially. When will this damn recession end????
Damn wish I Was perving that baby as well. Flipping nice. Hells I am definitely down the teazers story. Doesn't matter about recession we will still make gobels cash lol. to be honest I don't know what the difference if any would be splitting the cooling after putting in a bigger front mount. Would be interesting that's for sure. You got to do a dyno run now before continuing, it would kill me trying to guess if I am making more power or not after each upgrade. For R 150 bux or whatever it is, it is well worth it I reckon. this recession sure does suck piles. At the end of the day you only live once

EDIT : Regarding the Mrs. It's always easier asking for forgiveness than asking for permission, lol

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Old 10-10-2013, 09:17 AM
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03 E55 AMG
Which dyno do you use or recommend? My C32 was only dynoed once at Mr. Turbo, but that is too far away. I live near Sandton, but don't mind driving to a good dyno, especially if the price is good.
Wife comment is too true - whatever happened to 'prevention is better than cure'.
Old 10-10-2013, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by James M
Which dyno do you use or recommend? My C32 was only dynoed once at Mr. Turbo, but that is too far away. I live near Sandton, but don't mind driving to a good dyno, especially if the price is good.
Wife comment is too true - whatever happened to 'prevention is better than cure'.
I first went to alb but to be honest would never go back there. Couple reasons for that. But now I go to motronix. It's near gold reef city. Sorry I am from Durban just recently moved here and don't know anything about where everything is. But I am happy on that dyno and going to base the rest of my mods on that one. No correction factors and crap just purely what it's putting down to the ground
PS: If you do head out there would love to meet up. I will even through my underpowered beast on there to.
Old 10-10-2013, 12:08 PM
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Sounds perfect because AMG conversions is just across the road and they probably use that dyno as well. Thanks - going to give them a ring tomorrow.
My exhaust is starting to 'break in' and sounds better and better everyday. When I start my car in the morning I always get a fright because it sounds like a DTM monster for the first few seconds before it settles. Just wish that damn Bosch pump would arrive so I can go and sort some M3's out this weekend.
Old 10-10-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by James M
Sounds perfect because AMG conversions is just across the road and they probably use that dyno as well. Thanks - going to give them a ring tomorrow.
My exhaust is starting to 'break in' and sounds better and better everyday. When I start my car in the morning I always get a fright because it sounds like a DTM monster for the first few seconds before it settles. Just wish that damn Bosch pump would arrive so I can go and sort some M3's out this weekend.
LOL brilliant. We can take on them M3's together. I think you will feel comfortable there. I am meticulous about my machine so good luck there. If you call I will be there but unfortunately I am out the country for the next week. Anyway a meet up at some point will be good. btw yes they do use that same dyno. But I never told you that
Old 10-15-2013, 03:53 AM
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Finally got my Bosch 010 pump from the States this morning - only took 25 days. While I was at the post office to collect it, Bosch called to say they had my part in stock that they had ordered for me (after they told me that the factory in Germany didn't have stock) - how is that for Sod's law? Still got it cheaper from the States even after coughing up another R 231.00 in import duties. Bought 2 x 3 ton jack stands and a jack - can't wait to get my hands dirty this weekend. Hoping my tax rebate (if I get one) will cover the cost of the tune, then I am done for mods this year.
Old 10-15-2013, 04:40 PM
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Hey James that's beauts. Congrats on the pump. As a matter of interest how much is the local Bosch pump charging you? If I went to go buy that order. Flip hoping like mad you can get that rebate and tuned. Dying to know what your animal is putting down. thanks for keeping in touch.
Old 10-16-2013, 12:32 AM
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Bosch SA wanted to charge me about R 2500.00 - mine with import duties and shipping from the states came in at R 1900.00. Mercedes wanted to charge me R 4500.00. If you would like one, I have the direct contact details for the salesman at Bosch in Wynberg who has just brought one in - I don't think you need an IC pump because your vehicle is newer and probably has the upgraded pump (ck me on thhis as I am not 100% sure)? Hoping My IAT's will drop big time.
Old 10-16-2013, 05:38 AM
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OK thanks for that. Certainly a lot cheaper than the stealer ship. Yeah I think my pump is still fine. No idea if I have the newer pump or not. Don't even know how to check lol. Cool well will be checking for updates after your install.

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