Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

Just want to share how much high boost i am running with stock internals and stock map sensor.
as in my signature i have a big supercharger(55K one) installed on my V6 m112 engine, i have the block and heads of the ML350 2004/2005 which is from factory 3.7L, with C32 crank, cams, rods and the E55 w210 pistons, which made my compression lower to like 8.2:1 which help with high boost.
with stock pulleys i was in the 1.4-1.5 bars boost, then i installed a 175 lower pulley, now the boost is at 1.9 bars!!!!!
third gear 24 psi, fourth gear 26 psi and fifth gear 28 psi
the car is running great no fuel cut from map sensor, still with stock map sensor 1.5 bars, when i log from ecu i see 1.52 bars max cause it is the highest voltage that the stock map sensor can read.
i am running with 50/50 water/meth to be more safe and 750cc injectors.
plus i am also in the high timing range 20-24 degrees and there is no knock or timing retard.
car still need fine tuning.
yes i know that i am playing with fire.

Forrest Gump 9

That's great to hear. 28psi, must be fun!!

GregMB

Please tell me more about your datalogging...

What sort of equipment and software are you using? I see that it offers ways to set "alarm" thresholds which is very interesting to me.


For a while now, I've thought it would be a VERY smart idea to do some sort of real-time datalogging with the ability to monitor AFRs (especially at WOT) and light up a HUGE red light on the dashboard and maybe even an audible alarm when the fuel mixture became too lean....


If there was ever a fuel delivery problem, it would be great to know INSTANTLY that things were going wrong so that there would be time to get out of the throttle before a catastrophic failure occurred.




-G

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

it is simply the AEM wideband failsafe, it monitor AFR and boost along with rpm and you can set upper and lower limit for afr, when you reach the thresholds the gauge flash and will send a ground signal output you can use it to shut off the sc or anything you can use as a safety.

blackbenzz

Boost doesn't really tell you much besides restriction. Its about air flow. People run much bigger crank pulley even combined with smaller sc pulley on an E55. The AMG internals are strong.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

Boost doesn't really tell much, so you can run 30-40 psi and don't care
second can you tell me please where are my air flow restrictions, if i have an oem SC flowing to an oem intercooler then to y pipes and surge tanks with modified high volume, 82 mm tb with a cold air intake and a big K&N filter, long tube headers with no cats.
i have high boost cause i am running with a large SC (oem 2.3L 55 sc)
which flow into a V6 3.7liters instead of a V8 5.5liters because of that i am seeing high boost, stock C32's have 1 bar boost stock with the oem 1.6L sc.
stock e55 are in the 0.7-0.8 bar stock when you install lower and upper pulleys you will not see more then 1.2-1.3 bars (18-19psi).

Denroll

Zeitronix has programmable alarm parameters. I have mine set to trigger meth with an alarm signal. 70% TPS, 11 psi, and 2300 rpm. You can set pretty much whatever you want. The alarm module has sound, a light, and an output signal to trigger something like a relay.

EREBUS

Our map sensor will start freaking out @ 18 + psi? So you are stating you are hitting 26+ psi with no failsafe? Sorry bro, I call bullsh*t. You said I couldn't hit above 16 psi with upper and lower pulley set up on M113K motor. Not only are you cornfused, I think you are lying. Your ECM will not allow your claim.....period. Besides, my 16 psi would demoralize you. lol

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for ur kind words, it reflect you.
Please moderators delete this thread.

blackbenzz

Like I said boost is a measure of restriction not power.

Second all the things you named are restrictions. Anything that limits air flow is a restriction. Like breathing through a straw vs no straw. Straw = restriction.

Exactly, so your "high boost" doesn't equate to high power.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

But where in my posts i said that i have high boost that means i have big power?
I wrote this thread only to share that the engine with stock oem parts is handling this high boost and to mention that the map sensor is not cutting fuel, when i added the sc pulley the ecu cuts fuel( >2bars) that's it. Maybe it is in the tune.
This thread is taking another route.

Joncl

Robert that is a cool data logging system. I have seen it on some cars , was it easy to setup?

C3Duece

awesome project Robert! You've got a lot of parts from different engines all working well. I'd like to see how much power its making or your 1/4 mile times.

rockthemullet

Is this the C32 map sensor or the E55 map sensor?

Is the 2bar limiter you mention in gage or absolute?

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

C32 and E55 has same map sensor and installed now on the car is the
005 153 72 28 part nb
the bar nbs i am talking are not absolute
this part nb is 2.5 bar absolute deduct 1 bar at sea level
so it can handle 1.5 bars.
the c32 stock has 1 bar, we c32's from more then 6-7 years with 185 pulley are running 22 psi 1.5 bar at fourth gear and cars are running good without fuel cut, only you will see a stored fault in the ecu about high input boost but it will not trigger check engine.
now i am in the 1.7-1.9 bars without fuel cut, but the ecu see only 1.5 bar, maybe the tune is made to not trigger fuel cut we have to ask Jerry.
when i installed the sc pulley with the lower pulley i hit fuel cut >2 bars.
i have bought the 3 bars absolute diesel map sensor 006 153 99 28
when i was with the 2 pulleys, installed it but the car did not idle and died, then i reinstalled the stock map sensor and took out the 84 sc pulley, now the car is running fine.

rockthemullet

Good info, thank you for your contribution. The previous thought was that the map sensor would peg at 17-18psi (1.23bar gage). When you installed the diesel 3bar map sensor, did you modify the tune to compensate? Map sensor works off of a range, not an exact number, so when you use a sensor with a larger range, you need to change your maps and consider the lack of resolution you now have.

For those of you that don't know, absolute includes atmospheric pressure so what you see in datalogs is gage pressure. Atmospheric is 14.64 and gage is above that... stock, our cars come with 1.54bar absolute or 0.54bar gage.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

yap when installed the 3 bar map sensor i noticed that the tune should be modified but Jerry said it needs a lot of work, so i didn't insist.
sorry but i think you miss write our stock map sensor is 2.5 bars absolute or 1.5 gauge.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

the map sensor parts nb and equivalent bars in EPC are shown in this thread post nb 10:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-question.html

EREBUS

Countless M113K owners experience fuel cut and failsafe with upper and lower pullies with just 18 psi. So you are telling us you are hitting 26 psi with no issues? You would be the only person on this planet, then. Check your gauges, bro.

Jerry knows my car quite well and has attempted to tune for the map sensor not to trigger cutoff at high boost. For the record, gentleman, it has yet to be figured out around our issue. I just installed a Splitsec clamp and will be dyno tuning with Jerry this Thursday. We shall see......

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

there are hundreds of C32's and SRT6's running with 21-22 psi boost without fuel cut you can go to srt6 forum and c32 forum and read from 5 to 7 years guys are running like that. and there are alot of 55K with upper and lower pulleys without fuel cut. i have 2 different boost gauges plus ECU obd2 datalogs and nothing wrong with them.

Robert AMG

iTrader: (1)

i don't see how a manufacture like MB install a map sensor rated at 1.5 bar as per EPC and it cuts fuel at 18psi (1.24 bar).
i suggest to change ur map sensor from the old part 33 28 to the new one 72 28.

Lenin

Here is some data from my C32 from a month ago (not from the track). You can see MAP at 34.4 (not adjusted) reported by OBD2, MAP at 20 reported by Zeitronix , IDC and fuel PSI. As you can see, boost is at 20 PSI and the fuel is not cutting out.
I believe that the issue that EREBUS is describing is something else. When I run a larger crank pulley and a 62mm SC pulley, I run into a condition that feels like I hit the wall. Fuel gets cut off and the AFR goes to 18+. I swapped the 62mm SC pulley for the 65mm SC pulley and same larger crank pulley, and I'm fine (see the graph). It seems like the boost level by itself is fine but in combination with some other condition that a certain combination of pulleys creates causes some illogical condition for the ECU and the fuel is pulled.

EREBUS

Hard runs would get me to 20 psi until the ECU adjusts for over boost. After ECU freaks out, idle would be rough as hell until you restart the motor. If you attempted to run the car without engine restart, the ECU would cap boost @14 psi and be pig rich. Jerry dynoed my car with upper and lower and couldn't get more than 535 rwhp. Dyno chart showed power dropping when the computer starting flipping out with a stored map fault code. Removing upper pulley allowed 587 rwhp.

rockthemullet

I didn't miss write, I was stating that others have seen fuel cut in the 1.23bar gage range, not 1.5bar (as EREBUS supported)

This leads me to believe it's within the ECU logic on the E55 and not the map sensor itself. Not sure how we'll be able to get around it though.

Nevertheless, I'd like to see at what efficiency the stock supercharger is seeing at boost over 20psi... likely past the point of diminishing returns.