55fanatic

if you want to bring it to me, I could probably work my magic on it...

SheriffDep

Since there seems to be an interest in Paint Correction, I am going to try and help and answer some questions and give some suggestions to members. There is detailing (cleaning to the best it can be and putting on a sealant), Paint Correction ( using compounds and polishes to remove scratches and swirls and marring, then sealing and making it the best within reason it can be), and Perfectionist Detailing, where you work each panel till its perfect then only then move to the next. This is hugely time consuming and if you pay someone to do it, then expect to pay what its worth. Examples--- Detail usually 125-200 pending dirty condition and size. Paint correction-- (2 step, 400-500) (3-4 step, 800+), Perfectionist Dertail--1k plus. Coating are 200-1250 pending which ones. IF someone quotes these prices or around they do know what they are talking about and you will get what you pay for. IF its less then start asking questions and references. Still may be a good detailer wanting to make a little money on the side and doing it cheaper to get the business. Detial expect 3 hrs. Paint Correction expect 1 day maybe 2. Perfectionist expect 3-4 days. The examples I put below were Perfectionist and the AMG I am just starting. I do drive them in-between so its not all done at once. BMW-45 hours, Maserati 65hours, AMG I expect 40-50 and already have 10 in it. Every detailer should know his limit, and express that to the customer, and explain why it should not be buffed more, or no matter what you do that scratch will not come out. Most Paint Corrections and Perfectionist detailing only come out75-95 %. It cannot be totally perfect. Even new cars. If your car is new, do a quick polish then start treating well. On to the good stuff.

1. Foam Cannon, or Foamaster---- Great tools but I honestly rarely use them. U cannot use them by themselves then rinse and dry. They are used to loosen up and take off loose debris before actual washing. great for cracks, pollen, dust but not much else. When I do use either one, I will do it once, rinse, then do it again while using a wool wash mitt, so I have maximum lubricity to prevent scratches. Using the foam aster along with a wash mitt (at the same time pushing the soap into the mitt while wiping) is the absolute best way to wash a car.

2. Merc and BMW use Cerami Coat for their clear coats. It is extremely hard. Most people do not know but different cars clear coats have different hardness. Porshe is fairly soft along with NSX (different panels will be diff hardness), American cars are medium and do vary a little. European cars are typically pretty hard with merc and bmw the hardest. Figuring out the pads, compounds and polishes that work with these is vehicle specific. What works on your wife's BMW may not work all that well on your AMG. I think you get the picture.

3. ALL local store bought compounds and polishes are light weight versions of the professional products you can get at the places I mentioned earlier. Example are the Meguire's Ultimate series. Its one to two steps lighter product than their M105 and M205. Get the good stuff before wasting quick money on cheaper items and you will save in the end.

4. Dual Action Polishers-- new tech best to use, almost eliminates the use of a high speed rotary, can be purchased for 100-150 and up. Griots Garage 6" has more torque than the Porter Cable but the PC makes a perfect 3" after you upgrade afterwards. Rupes and Flex are the best. (Extremely hard to burn paint and you have to try to even do it)

5. Pads--- Beginners--- Try the Meguire's Microfiber Cutting pads with their D300 compound. Great working time and very good cutting ability. Easy to remove. This will work for most vehicles without problem. Deeper RIDs (Random Isolated Scratches) will need a more aggressive compound or specific work on that area. Lake Country Hydro Cut pads (Cyan) seem to work very well also. Remember the amount of product you use should be Less is More. Typical users use way too much. Also, 4 pads if you clean them in-between or while you are doing the car. 6 pads if you do it all at once. Remember the dirtier the pad, the less cutting action your getting and a lot of times the pads will introduce marring due to dirt and build up. Compuonds-- M105, Meguier's D300, Wolfgang, Pinnacle, Menzerna etc... ( each detailer have their favorites)

6. Polishing Pads-- I do not use Microfiber Polishing pads, I feel foam pads finish off better. Sometimes I will use one with a harsher final polish then finish with a micro polish. Tangerine Lake Country Hydro pads seem to work excellent. Lake Country White CCS are good but i like the Hydro's. Each to their own for this section.

7. Polish--- Go to products over all are Meguire's M205, Rupes Diamond, Menzerna PO85, AMMO Jewelers. There are many others that are great, but I usually stick to Rupes Diamond, and the Menzerna. Just my favorites and seem to work on most finishes well. Autogeeks Wolfgang Twins is a hugely popular and works absolutely great. The Polish I believe is actually Menzerna re bottled.

8. Sealants. Carpro, AMMO, Blackfire, Wolfgang, Pinnacle, Cquartz all have great sealants with many others too. A sealant is a Wax, but synthetic, and lasts 2-4 months pending washes and weather. This will protect the finish from the element. I prefer the AMMO Skin, due to using the SPIT spray wax and Hydrate wipe down products, they add to the protection with every use. ALL work together. The SKIN is layer able so increased layers add a little shine and additional protection.

9. Carnuba Wax- Natural wax from usually Brazil that adds DEPTH to the shine. Does offer protection but each wipe down or wash will take some of it away. Only lasts 2-4 weeks pending hot weather. Hotter the less time. Good for shows or to top off a sealant for a special event. Garage Queens pretty good for.

10. Coatings--- I like them. CQuartz, GTechniq, 22PLE, Modesta, Pinnacle. They are typically resin types that coat the surface of your vehicle. They have them for Trim and wheels too. (Wheels i recommend absolutely, eases washing drastically) They can be typically topped with wax or sealant for additional protection. Helps to prevent scratches, makes cleaning easier, and also lasts much longer. I do NOT believe the hype for 2+ years. I think probably 1 year or so.

Car Wash Soaps---- PH Nuetral, you would be surprised at how many you see at Wally World, Auto Zone etc.... are cheap products that actually hurt your sealant. They can strip immediately like Dish soap, or slowly, but you want something that will not strip at all. Most on the websites are proper. Not much more so why not pay the extra. and get them at your door.

USE only microfiber and decent ones at that for cleaning. I personally found Home depot has white and orange ones 18 for 9, and they are fine. I do have top quality ones for wipe downs and final polish removal, but I am a perfectionist.

Here are a couple pics of Black Cars that I have done a Perfectionist Detail on. They are absolutely scratch free examples and unfortunately I cannot upload the hundred of pictures of them in the sun. Here is some good ones

GunMoto

Props to all the long hours and hard work put in! Results speaks for itself.

moosejaw

SD
Im interested in working on my car.
What steps did you use on your E Above?
I would like to repeat the same process.
Ive spent close to $300 in real nice detailing products incl lake country pads, compunds, sealants and wax. Im looking at purchasing a Porter Cable 7424xp as well. I notice you did go over claybar treatments.

Any tips?
TIA. My E55 just out of the paint shop

SheriffDep

Moose-- What was painted on the vehicle. Those areas should not need claying and very little polishing. ? Did the paint shop wet sand their nubs off? If so a lot of them use 2500 and then hit with a rotary polisher and don't really get the scratches out, just shine it up. Most people are fine with that, not me. I would rather them NOT touch it after shooting it. Carpro makes a product called Denim for removing orange peel with a DA Buffer (Dual Action). They work wonders from what I have seen. Getting ready to use one on a special car. Don't do any wet sanding ever on factory paint. It is too thin and you can mess up really easy. Better to say STOP, and make it as best as you can.

Clay Bar--- I am switching over to Nano Skin FINE mitts or towels. I have used actual bars but think the newer products would save time and not cause some issues. On that Maserati, I made a mistake and wished it in 30 degree weather, then clayed it really quickly, and at night to boot. The problem was the clay bar was so as soft a pliable as it should have been and added a bunch of light scratches to it. Never again, lesson learned.

White Merc-- Used a Flex DA, and a Griots 3" DA to do the correction. Mostly Meg's Microfiber Cutting pads same for the 3", then LC Tangerine Hydro pads for the polishing. Meg's D300 compound, second step was Menzerna SF4000 with a White LC CCS, then third was Rupes Diamond polish with the Tangerine. I wanted it perfect so did the extra final step. Really didn't have too.

22PLE coating is what is on it. That is why its so glossy. I then topped the coating with AMMO Skin, so each wash or wipe down I would add to the protection. The wheels are the biggest suggestion for anyone to put it on. The best since sliced bread. You will appreciate it every time you wash them.

White cars are the absolute hardest to make the shine pop. You don't have to do the 22PLE product and it will still be a great shine with Skin, but the added pop it gave (also helps prevent micro marring from each wash) I really liked.

Suggestions--- most people graduate from the PC to a Rupes or Flex at some point. A DA will stop on curves and vertical when adding pressure. That is one of the protection modes of a DA. For me, the slowing down or stopping on the curves was a huge problem. The Rupes is very powerful and has a large throw for good correction ability. The Flex is forced rotation, so never stops and you can burn, but would have to try very hard to do it. I would suggest the Rupes 12, that would make a good all around DA with tremendous capability. Yes the PC works, and can work wonders, I just know from personal usage, that a week after I purchased the PC, I ws frustrated with it bogging down and stopping on the curves. Hope this helps, its about a 200+ additional purchase but worth it. Detailed Image or Autogeek run sales so keep checking and buy then. Also go through Autogeeks forum and find coupon codes that will work on the purchase of a Buffer. Not all do. Let me know anything more.

Also, what lip is on your AMG, I like it. I am thinking of putting one on mine, I am repainting the bumper and fixing the lower metal grille from a bird strike. Hate to say it, but saw one on the bay, for like 40$. I am not cheap but thought its for looks mostly and I will be painting it and not wanting CF, so maybe at least make the purchase and see how exactly cheap it really will be or look. If fine then use. Just a thought.

Sorry this kinda hijacked your post AMG55, was not my intention. Just trying to help

AMG E Power

^^^ no problem u are very knowledgeable about paint correction. That is plain as day cuz of your detail post. I learned everything from the junkman and I got near flawless correction on my car.

SheriffDep

Just trying to help some members out. Would love to do some members cars I am at the beaches of South Carolina. I do this for fun. Its a hobby, but the results speak for themselves and it makes you proud when its done. I really should do this as a business full time, but doing a Camry doesn't please me and I would be miserable doing it.

Yes Junkman has good info. Him and Larry have the best you tubes. If any questions please ask, and I will be happy to help out. Some of this is trying diff products over time and then using what feels the best and produces the individual results you want for a particular vehicle. I ran into the issue of NO one in the Myrtle Beach area does exceptional work. Actually no one around this area including Charleston So most of SC Coast has ever even heard of the Glass coatings. They all use the Rotary buffer still . Old School. They have their purposes for sure, a scapel at times, but most all can be done with a DA

moosejaw

Hey sheriff
I have a XXYY Lip made by suvneer
It's $250 shipped but it's for the e63 bumper
You thinking of doing the suvneer E63 conversion?

SheriffDep

I just got this a week ago, and in the beginning of the correction process. Getting everything done before I start on the paint. (Wheels, wheel wells, suspension, under the rear, Glass etc..)
Done the wheels (22PLE Coating), Wheel wells were taken off and cleaned perfect then coated with Optimum Opti Seal then reinstalled, Glass was razorblades and clayed then GTechniq G1 Glass coatings including the Pano Roof, All Leather with Leatherique products, Carpet was perfect, Wood Polished with foam pad and Rupes Diamond Polish (22PLE coating was applied to the wood after (wood is coated with same clear as paint so reacts the same)). I have worked two panels to see what will work on this and its virtually the same as the white one.

Started heavy knowing the car paint and how it reacts already. Got Meg's Heavy Cutting Microfiber discs with D300 on the Flex and it cut it almost perfect. Had to go back with 3", Meg's 3" MF Cut Discs with M105 to do small deep scratches. (I put a piece of tape wherever I find a deep scratch left to know where and what I have to come back too). I did the hood with this. I did realize the MF Heavy Disc is so thin that it doesn't like curves at all. The Flex backing plate is pretty solid and doesn't bend so that doesn't help. For the front driver quarter I used a Softbuff pad on the Flex with a mixture of D300 for working longevity and M105 to try and cut it down a little heavier. The Softbuff pad DID NOT finish off as nicely as the MF Discs. I used the Tangerine with Rupes Diamond to finish off both. The hood is almost perfect, while the quarter still has micro swirls left from the SB Pad. The Diamond and Tangerine were not heavy enough to pull that out too. I will need to use SF 4000 Menzerna to finish it better (or use a slightly better cutting / finishing pad (white CCS) with the Diamond and that would do it)). Anyway similar to what you will have to go through. I am planning on taking one panel at a time, making it perfect. One a day. Then will decide on doing a Coating. I have 1/8 ounce of Modesta BC-05 left after the Maserati and think I will do the hood with that. 22PLE for the rest. But not decided. I like messing with it so not sure.
This is why I asked about the Lip

moosejaw

Wow that 22pLE coating looks ****

Denroll

Yeah, I'm just going to do a light correction. Two years of not having a place to wash it myself took its toll. Lots of swirl marks.

I was thinking about taking off the badges to get to the paint under them.

SheriffDep

Allright, worked two panels for my Black 63 today. Spent 4 hours on them. Yes I want it absolutely perfect for my personal car, or why spend the time.

1. Used Flex 3401 with Meg MF Cut Pad using AMMO Leveler. This cut almost all marks except the really deep stuff. Finished off pretty decent.

2. GG 3" with MEG MF Cut pad using M105 for the specific scratches

3. Flex 3401 with White LC CCS using here it goes Meg Ultimate Polish

4. Final Jeweling Flex 3401 with LC CCS Black no cut finishing pad using Rupes Diamond Ultra Fine Polish.

This got it 98% perfect. Some really deep small marks I did not want to attempt. Was not worth the results if something burned through. I could have wet sanded it, but honestly NO ONE should wet sand factory paint. The ends do not justify the means in this case.

I used the Meg Ultimate Polish to get a little cut along with the light cut White Finishing Pad to pull out very light hazing. Most people would have been thrilled with the result at this point. (ex-- A Tangerine Hydro LC pad with the Rupes Diamond did pull all this out on its own and finished a little nicer but... I wanted to pull a little more than that did due to using another step to finish it off) The Black pad has no cut at all, so the tiny amount of initial cut was polish only (R Diamond) then pure polishing which is what I wanted. If you search Autopia forum they have a chart showing Cutting and Polishing capabilities. LC had the same for pads. I work these options to achieve the finish I am after

These products should work on most Merc CC's. However you might find some variances in the results. Not all cars are the same. Each detailer will have their own opinion and choice of products.

SheriffDep

PS Blew up the Flex too. Sending out for warranty from Flex tomorrow. I call HQ and they said to ship and 7 days they would have it back to me. I tried Autogeek (bought 11 months ago) and after they looked up my account they said they would offer a killer deal on a new buffer of my choice. Thats customer service. Thought I would throw them a plug , and this is not the first time they took care of me.

SheriffDep

The 22PLE is ONLY on the white E. The BMW is AMMO Skin and the Maserati is Modesta Coating. The Black 63 had nothing but what the dealer had on it. Shined like crazy in my opinion, but masking the marks and had no depth. Any color besides black and it wouldn't shine the same.

AMG E Power

@sheriffdep I got about 90 percent correction using m105 and m205 using orange then a white hex logic pad. What polish do u recommend I use with a red hex pad ? I know m205 is a finishing polish but I would like to hit it with something else that will not cut in the clear coat just bring put more shine if that's even possible cuz man does it shine after m205.

SheriffDep

What you want is a cut of 1 maybe 2 then polish number of 10. The Red Hex pad has NO cut at all which is of course what you want. M205 still has a decent amount of cut to it and I think a polish number around 8. Coupled with the white Hex pad gets you pretty good cut still, finishes off nicely as you saw but could be a little higher. Megs 105 and 205 cut and/or polish the whole time you use it. They do not break down like other diminishing abrasives. That is why if you need more cut with 105, you can lightly spray water on it and it will work for several more passes.

(I have used Wolfgang, Pinnacle, Megs, Rupes, Menzerna)(there are many others just don't discount them, I just have not used them so cannot speak to their finishing)

Menzerna and Rupes are two I am most familiar with and they use diminishing abrasives. i.e.... The first two passes with a polish will be cutting passes and the other 3+ will be polishing passes. SO using those with a white pad would net a slight cut combo from the pad and polish, then a little more cut just from the pad. Then just polish.

Red pad--- using Mens or Rupes you would get a very light smoothing cut, then total polish the rest of the time. Just enough cut to extremely smooth out that cc. You can mix match to achieve the result of what the finish needs. Hope all that makes sense. The cutting part would be just enough to take out nano haze and the lightest of swirls caused from the previous pads and polish. These nano hazing which are micro swirls from previous polishes and pads are really hard to see and you only see them when using Halogen lighting. Purchase Home Depots 34.99 pair of Halogen lights. Two 500w ones. They come on a stand and are orange. Absolute cheapest and best way to see what you are doing. A brink man light is for closer inspection

Menzerna SF 4500 super fine polish
Rupes Diamond Ultra Fine Polish

I would suggest these two. Your choice they both have long working times and are extremely easy to remove. (auto geeks Wolfgang Polish is SF 4000 rebottled in my opinion, very good products). Megs Ultimate has a lighter cut than the 205 and a higher polish number. The Men and Rupes have even lighter cut and higher polish than the Ultimate. I try to vary what I use pending condition. I did a NSX and each panel I had to figure out what it took. The CC was diff hardness each panel. Makes it diff to finish out. Luckily for us Merc CC is hard, which is the most difficult to get perfect. BUT, finishing on hard CC is the easiest. Soft CC are hard to finish out, but easier to cut.

Here is a before and then a after using this exact process: I will be debadging to get it really right. Then putting new badges back on

Denroll

What's your process for debadging and rebadging?

SheriffDep

Rebadging is fairly easy, that is as long as you have the exact same spot to re stick the emblem.
Make sure the whole panel is perfect first, then deal with the badge area.

Fender badges: Put a piece of tape directly along the bottom of it so you have a reference point to put the new one. When the badge is removed then polish that area till perfect, then line up the new and stick.

Taking off, heat up the badge or emblem and run a fishing line behind it to cut the glue and adhesive. The backing should be soft enough to slide it through. The get the glue off you can use a microfiber cloth with 3M adhesive remover on the towel and wipe easy till its all off. easy with the Remover, it is pretty strong even though it says its safe for CC's.