whipplem104

I was not trying to undermine anything you have done. I was simply pointing out that in order to make the car work without the factory tcu that it was not that complicated. I am not sure what 2 signals you are referring to but the transmission does not require DAS info with a 722.6. With a 722.9 it does. I am a factory trained Mercedes tech and understand quite well what is required. I also have helped develop and retail a standalone tcu for the transmission that I have used in factory cars so I have spent a lot of time reversing the CAN bus in order to to this. Chrysler is quite different than the Mercedes CAN as far as requirements. The Chrysler vehicles require current gear status and once that is there neutral safety from the tcu as well as the shifter.
I can promise you that the 722.9 is a completely different beast. And if you can get it to work outside of the original car it was designed for I am interested. In fact if you can code it to not require DAS messages I will pay for that.
I do not see how you would even learn the DAS to a 722.9 when hooked up to a E55. It would not even be an option in the coding. I have not looked at the DAS messages on one of these on the CAN bus but with the other vehicles I have checked it there is actually an additional message that is sent by the EIS for this specifically.

Hulk

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Roverron

Is this different from the CLS 550 that was convert to a 55K and kept the 7 speed in it.
Because I know for a fact that was coded for a 55K motor to run with a 7 speed

whipplem104

If I remember correctly that was a cls500 with the 7 speed in it that was converted to a 55k. And that is different. The reason is that the ecu version is the same. So both would be me2.8.
The Mercedes Star would be configured properly to do the coding.
I am not saying that any of this is completely impossible just that doing one thing does not mean you can necessarily do the other. And even if you got a 7 speed to work in the car you would not be able to generate scn coding for the tcu. Or order a tcu from the dealer for it. You can barely order a tcu for the transmission for the cars that it comes in from the factory.
The real trick would be hacking the tcu and getting the thing into an open state that could be tuned and software to go with it and not require DAS. Then you could put it in anything with the appropriate CAN messages being sent to it. TPS, engine tq., and a few other things probably.
The company I work with does this with the GM 6l-- transmissions and a few others. Very cool stuff.

sk8erjosh09

Ok, I'm not saying you don't know CAN bus protocol or message relay or the fact that it could work, sure it'd be a crappy solution for a lot of reasons, all I'm saying is that you obviously do not understand what I mean by coding. You also don't understand what you're talking about at all. As a Mercedes tech, you don't even have the software I'm talking about. In fact a lot of people on this forum have it, but it is not required for a factory tech. You also don't have even half of my software arsenal, guarenteed. Now where did Chrysler come into this? Nothing on the Crossfire is Chrysler made. Now listen, I've never heard of a story where a Mercedes tech was able to think outside the box except for once, at headquarters, in Germany. The dude's beat me at my project. Do you really think CAN emulating wasn't attempted for the M113 E50 6-speed manual? What about for the M112K manual's? I'll tell you right now that I use a standard Bosch ME2.8, or 281. They just have a bunch of hardware added, hexidecimal changed, and coding sorted for flawless factory running. Nothing is impossible, and you're making things more complicated than they are. Like I said, you seem to know what you're doing so go make money at it.

One last thing, stop focusing on the TCU. Believe me, that's only 10% of the battle...

Exactly my point...

I hadn't heard of this already happening, but the factory option is retained in the ME. I think the hardest part would be harness configuration.

sk8erjosh09

Dude, just stop. You literally have no clue what you're talking about and you're preaching exactly what a tech is taught to. This is not tech work.

whipplem104

Well I tell you what. I have a 722.9 transmission sitting in my shop. And a few tcus. If you want I will send one down to you and you can show a live DAS screen of that tcu in a E55 or a like vehice with drive authorization released I am in.
I want it to work. I am a little different than your average dealer tech though. I have spent a great deal of time working on swap projects and understanding the drive auth. system.

whipplem104

I also want to be clear. I think that what you have done is impressive and took a lot of work and trial and error and am in no way trying to take away from that.
I see that you did this on a r170 chassis and I think a Crossfire. And I am not familiar with the differences on the Mercedes and Chrysler versions of this car. But the w211 e class is much different and in fact each car is very different in what is accessible and not and software versions etc.
For instance the w211 uses a central gateway. You could configure the CGW to accept a 722.9 so the the STAR would look for it. I imagine. I could conceive of the marriage process working but I think you are still going to be stuck on the scn coding. And if you have a way around the scn coding for a 722.9 or a way to download and transfer then I am a buyer for sure. This is really holding me up in my business.

typhoon43

It actually sounds like you BOTH know some things or two about this process. Rather than getting defensive, why don't you guys work together and see if you can crack the mystery? This stuff is WAY above my pay grade, but it's an awesome concept. I hope the constructive criticism fuels debate, which can definitely lead to progress if everyone's cool headed.

sk8erjosh09

If I were willing to hack my harness up for a transmission I don't want then I would be good to go. As it stands I have far too many projects to invest time in this conversion when I'd just revert back after. Send the transmission to someone with an E55 here in California, let them wire it up and build it, then I'll go code it. Throw in the money for gas.

Thanks, and you're right. Every model has their own quirks. There are some minor software differences in some models between the R193 and R170 but they don't really matter unless I want to adjust when my old wing would go up and down.

A lot more models than the W211 use the CGW. Now this is what I mean, why do you keep saying Star as if it's a module? DAS, sure. But that's a general term for a sequence through modules.

SCN is just one of two ways to get the same outcome. The other being better with more flexability anyway.

sk8erjosh09

Agreed. I came off a little irritated because people tell me everyday.. "why don't you just use a stand alone"... Well if it was a different manufacturers motor, and I was going to lose all Mercedes function in the first place then sure. But that's not what I do. My purpose is factory, so that when you hop in that car and turn that key, the original key, everything works as it did and should. You cannot have that with CAN emulator's and stand alone's. On top of that, expense. A nice Haltech standalone is like $4000. My cost wouldn't even be near that. Especially if it's as easy as I'm thinking. If it's not, then sure it might take some software re-write.

whipplem104

I was not suggesting to use a standalone ecu for the engine. I was just stating that I have removed the factory tcu from 722.6 cars and that emulating the tcu for the rest of the vehicle to work with the original engine control unit{ecu}. Is pretty straight forward. Removing the ecu and using a standalone is infinitely more complicated if you want the rest of the car to work. And factory tuning is near impossible to replicate.
When I used the term STAR I was referring to the factory diagnostic equipment. DAS was drive authorization.
I assumed you were doing the necessary coding in developer mode or something of that nature. Or you are combining bin files from different ecus to get the correct coding in the ecu. So take a bin of a module that has the selection for a manual and load it in a module that does not and tune from there. This is not what I really do but have been looking into this stuff a lot to see how things are done.
I have been trying to get a diesel ecu from a cdi car to run without any DAS for a while and been poking around at different methods.

sk8erjosh09

Yeah, I understand what you're saying now, it's just not the way to go about it. It's like the stand alone issue. You listed negatives to doing that, and I apply the same to emulating CAN signals.

Gotchya. Just wanted to make sure.

I wish it were that easy lol.

As in knocking out the immobilizer?

whipplem104

Yeah, I want to basically use a factory ecu to run the engine as a standalone without EIS, Key, steering lock, etc. I can send the start message and other messages simple enough to make it work just do not want the DAS functions.

sk8erjosh09

And I don't mean to be so brief and short, but I want to make a business out of this stuff at some point.

By the way. Talked to a buddy. Found out who did the CLS 55K 7-speed coding, and it just so happens to be the only person I work with on my projects, who I was going to call later about all of this anyway. So yeah people, if you want the 7-speed in the E55 get it rigged up and able to handle the power and I'll do the coding.

sk8erjosh09

That's complicated stuff. Getting false communication without losing function. A few guys want me to do that on the R170's and I told them no. The money and time it would cost me isn't worth it when I can just code and manipulate used units on ebay for much cheaper and easier.

whipplem104

Tell me about it. I am planning to use it on a motor swap into an older car but if it was just a matter of replacing the ecu then you are right. No need from a cost stand point.
The only reason I am even looking into it is because it is a common rail diesel and the aftermarket ecu selection is very expensive and the tuning is very complicated. I imagine I am going to end up there anyways. But do it once and it is hard and the 2nd time is a pretty straight forward process.
Personal project or I would not do it either.
Good luck on what you are doing and keep up the good work. I hope you can get a return on the investment. I know all to well how hard that is from a business stand point.

sk8erjosh09

Its even worse when you cross platforms. I put thought into the 6.2 AMG for the R170 for about 1 month and decided after that it was definitely not one of my brighter idea's. It would be cool, but it would be chopped, aftermarket with horrible function. 55K is just easier, cleaner, faster…


And thanks. Since I buy components in bulk I'm all profit right now pretty much. Once I add more of an overhead, like a shop, then it will be harder but I've only been doing this stuff for other people for 10 months. My profit has doubled in the last 4 vs the previous, so if I stay on that path of increase I should be good to go in a year or so.

Edmonas

This BMW has a MB 55 compressor engine in, and I think the gearbox was connected with that trans adapters