DIY Sorta: Black E63 Paint Correction
01-21-2015, 11:16 PM
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13' E350 4matic, 08' E63
DIY Sorta: Black E63 Paint Correction
This is a write up I did for the Autogeek Forum. Most of you have seen my E63 in all the other DIY posts recently that I have done. A Paint Correction detail is very labor intensive and takes typically 20+ hours of work and over 50+ hours to make it show quality. This vehicle is almost at Show Quality and it is much better than when it was new for sure. List of items left for me to work out -- Front Hood has or was sandblasted from highway driving so only way to fully restore is to replace with new hood and paint perfectly, Rust areas on rotors get corrected or replace rotors, remove all sticky tape from wheel weights and get rocker panels and some areas on the bumpers protected by Xpel paint protection. Other than that I think it about done and just about perfect. Here is the write up I did for the detailing forum.
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG 2008 80k Miles Paint Correction
Inspection:
Initial inspection showed the paint had typical marring and swirls, and normal scratches for a 80k vehicle. I measured paint levels and concluded no exterior paintwork had been done prior to my receiving it. Due to it being my vehicle, I wanted flawless so planned a 3-4 step correction. If you find deep marks (RIDs), dents, questionable areas remember to take pictures immediately and document the damage or issue, so that can be discussed with the customer up front, and it protects you from the customer returning asking how you damaged his vehicle. Members have had this issue to their vehicles before and posted threads.
Planned project for this vehicle. Paint Correction, paint calipers, correct wheel wells, remove bumpers and rockers and have painted, add carbon fiber lip and diffuser. Initial pictures below.
Test Panels:
My next step is working a test area, it is ALWAYS the top of the trunk. If something goes wrong that is the easiest place and cheapest place to re-spray. Typical Detailer Rules say Lower rear quarter panel is the least likely area a customer would see on a daily basis, so if you messed something up and there was time he would be driving it before the repair, the customer does not keep on seeing the damage and reminding him why he won't ever return to you for work. Keep that in mind when working a high-end vehicle, test the least visible, smallest panel that is separate from the rest of the car. The bumper areas are NOT a good indication of how a product might react to the work being done. It is plastic. So choose a nice area and try your main go to product and pad selection, first going least aggressive ie… Polishing light cutting pad w/ SF4000 or your polish of choice with the least cut. If you need to go into it further (which you will of course at least somewhere on the vehicle) start at the next least aggressive, ie….Polishing pad w/ FG400 or M105 or D300 (speaking of MF pads, you can start with the polishing pad and work your want into most aggressive for those also, same process, different materials).
Most people typically match their pads and products right off the bat. Think about what you are doing to achieve the result you actually want. A light cutting pad can be used with any polish or compound. The combination will decide the level of cut you will receive. So as an example, tangerine Hydro pad with Rupes Diamond polish will cut significantly less than the tangerine Hydro with Rupes Keramilk or Quartz. (D300, FG400). You can also lessen the severity of cutting by using SF4000 with a blue Hydro cut pad rather than the D300, FG400 types. Keep this in mind when you cut or polish, so when you need to only lightly cut or heavily polish you can also vary your pads to products instead of buying specific cutting or polishing products specific to pads. I don’t think most people think this way, and you can achieve great results without taking off half the clear coat (CC) and leaving some for the next person down the road.
Products vs. machines:
I typically use a Flex 3401, GG 3”, and the new PE-8 Rotary for 1” and 2” pads. Mike Philips has repeatedly gone over combinations with these machines and the threads written about them constantly people try to use different combinations than what is suggested and issues arise. It is highly recommended when using any 3401 to use the 4” backing plate and the LC Hybrid Pads in 5” size. They are specifically manufactured to work with and produce exceptional results. You will have less aggravation, and spend less money in the future. Meguire’s Micro Fiber (MF) discs worked great also, just seems on some paints the polishing MF Disc leaves a tad bit of micro marring so I like to finish with a foam pad. Think also about the quantity of pads you will use. Most people use no where near enough pads on a vehicle. Key to properly making the most of your work is to change out pads very regularly. Use a pad for each 1.5 panels. This will achieve the results you want, without making extra work. Clean pads = proper results.
This is a list of products used. Whole vehicle took unknown hours for a 3-4-step paint correction and all the other re-conditioning. (I have done this work over a 6 week time period) Vehicle came out better than new, and there was very little RIDs on the car when finished. Due to the hardness of Merc paint, I had to switch up on different panels, pads and compounds, to get the finish right. Some panels just needed two separate passes to get the initial correction to the level I was happy with. Then the Polishing was done in two stages, just to get that jeweled look as much as possible.
Products:
Menzerna FG400 @Autogeek.net
Menzerna SF4000 @Autogeek.net
Rupes Diamond @Autogeek.net
Modesta PA-01 Glass Primer
22ple Glass Coating PRO Level @DetailedImage
22ple Glass coating for Wheels and Metal @DetailedImage
Pads:
LC Hybrid Orange 5” @Autogeek.net
LC Hybrid White 5” @Autogeek.net
LC Hybrid Yellow 5” @Autogeek.net
LC Hybrid assortment 3” (Yellow cutting, white polishing) @Autogeek.net
Flex 1” Orange and green, Flex 2” Orange and Green
Soaps and Interior Products:
• Chemical Guys Honeydew @Autogeek.net
• AMMO Plum @ammonyc.com
• AMMO Lather @ammonyc.com
• Nanoskin 6” Light Disc @Autogeek.net
• Leatherique 2 Step Process @Autogeek.net
• P21s Wash
Tools:
Flex 3401 DA @Autogeek.net
Flex PE-8 Rotary @Autogeek.net
Griot’s Garage 3” DA polisher @Autogeek.net
Wool Wash Mitt @Autogeek.net
Microfiber towels from @Autogeek.net
Metro Sidekick Blaster @Autogeek.net
Halogen Spotlights for correction light (I turn off all lights and use this light when doing correction work) (switching over to 55w LEDS)
McCullough Steam Cleaner
The wash:
I started with the wheels first. (Actually removed all 4 for this process and the ease of glassing the barrels of them also) I used AMMO Plum iron deposit remover, let sit for 3-4 min and then used a tire brush and then a microfiber mitt to get into the interior of the rims. Then Hand washed with AMMO Wheel Soap the rest of the tires, rims, and wheel wells and suspension. I then rinsed off the wheels and wells, then rinsed off the whole vehicle to loosen any large dirt particles. I then used the two-bucket method with Chemical Guys Honeydew Soap and a Wool mitt and started on the roof. In between each panel I rinsed and re-soaked the wool mitt to lessen the chances of contaminating the next panel with particles. Then rinsed vehicle.
The clay bar:
After initial wash I used the Nanoskin 6” light Disc synthetic Clay using CG Honeydew Car Soap as lubricant. Then rewashed vehicle.
Drying:
Dried the vehicle using the Metro Sidekick Blaster to eliminate any chance of marring the finish any more than it was already. I do this no matter what anyway, takes a lot longer, but in the end there is no chance of marring the finish and all the water is out of the cracks and crevices.
Compounding:
Test panels showed the Flex 3401 DA w/ LC Hybrid Orange pads with the FG400 worked great. I also used the FG400 quite a bit with the GG3” and yellow 3” Hybrid foam pads due to the lower power. I used the Flex PE-08 Rotary with the orange cutting pads for intricate areas like around the trunk and license plate holder. Thin panels along top of doors and mirrors. I typically will use a Rotary in these areas to cut and polish, then go over it with the GG3” and SF4000 to make certain there are no holograms.
After each section was finished, the Brinkman was used to inspect for any heavy swirls or marring that the polishing steps would not remove. Most panels were pretty perfect with only very small and minor swirls in a few places. The Menzerna FG400 finishes really well, and was again thoroughly pleased with it.
Polishing:
All the fine polishes had long working times and removed easily when finished with the section. Typically worked a 2 by 2 section to maximize work area.
Next was a whole car polishing using the Menzerna SF4000 Polish with a White Hybrid Pad using the Flex on a setting of 4 for pass 2-3 and 3 for pass 4-7. The GG 3” was a white pad on setting 5-6 for small and tight areas.
When using the PE-8 with a polishing pad, I used the SF4000 with the green Flex pads. Spread product on setting 1 and polished it up on a setting of 2.5.
Next was the Rupes Diamond super fine polish, (I only did this step due to the time I had on my hands, and the desire to make it absolutely perfect) using a Black Hybrid Pad, on Flex setting of 2-3 with 5 lbs. pressure for pass 1-2 to diminish the abrasives quickly so passes 3-8 were Jeweling the CC. GG 3” was used on 4-5 with no pressure and used a no cut Black pad. This step is not necessary but I felt it increased the level of gloss by diminishing the very micro marring left by the white pads and SF4000. This would likely be totally unnecessary on any color except black.
Checking the Work:
All Panels were inspected for any swirls or marks, and each one found, a piece of tape was used to mark it. 9-10 spots were found and re-touched up using the white then black pads and appropriate polish. Then another inspection was done, and I concluded all possible scratches were removed. Typical Rock Chips in the front Valance, bumper, hood (Bonnet for the UK’ers), and right behind the front wheels on the lower rocker panels, were still there. Other than those spots the paint came out absolutely perfect. Plans for this car were to have the Front, Rear bumpers and the two lower rockers painted due to heavy scratches and massive sand blasting on the front bumper and lower rockers.
The Coating:
I have run into fine scratches in the past during the wash phase after polishing to rid the surface of any oils or polishing agents. Each time I try and come up with a way to NOT panel wipe, or run any type of product on the surface. I have finally gone to Pressure washing the paint and all the seals and cracks, then spraying P21s directly on the finish and rinsing the car off. This seems to clean the surface without me actually touching it.
Again the paint was inspected to make sure there were no scratches, RIDs, or marring that could be removed. Due to using the Modesta line of coating also in the past, I had a bottle of primer that I looked at the chemical composition and it was so similar to the 22ple that I thought I would try to use it the same way but with the 22ple glass.
I primed the vehicle by using a black no cut 3” pad on the GG3” and wiped off carefully 4 min later. Then waited the recommended 3 hours so the primer can cure.
I then coated the paint using 22ple pro glass coating. The coating goes on smooth (used a cut up foam black pad for application), and used a cross hatch pattern to reduce any high spots. Waited a full 5 min due to high humidity levels and started to remove with one MF towel, and then wiped clean with a second MF towel. This coating increases its gloss levels over time while it is curing. I was able to allow the vehicle to sit in the garage for 3 days. (total cure is supposed to be 5 days, however after 24hrs you can drive it without wet weather, give it at least 3 days before the wet weather). I also glassed the door jambs to make those areas easier to clean in the future.
The wax:
I waited one week then I decided to top the coating with a Polish Angel product. This is a special PA non retail product made specifically to top the 22ple coating. They added some of the same properties to the carnauba that are in the glass coatings so they will crosslink correctly. PA carnaubas are typically a paste carnauba that applies smooth (GG 3” black pad setting 2) and removes just as easy. I thought I noticed slight gloss level increase, however probably just me wanting it there. The surface feel did slick up some.
Windows:
Each window was Razor Bladed to remove any contamination. Then all surfaces were coated with GTechniq and buffed clear. (22ple just introduced a surface coating that will be tried next. Probably another similar version to GTechniq like most the others.
Leather:
All Leather and door panels were Steam cleaned. The Leatherique 2 step process was used on the front two seats and just the one step maintainer was used for the rear.
Interior:
Only several spots on the carpets needed cleaning, so I used the AMMO Lather and a brush to blot out the needed areas, then re-vacuumed the vehicle and put stripes with the brush into the carpet. All dash surfaces and center console areas were wiped down using AMMO Lather sprayed on a mf towel. ALL wood pieces were treated to a Menzerna SF4000 polish with a Microfiber pad, and then buffed to an incredible shine. (Most treated wood interiors have a CC the same as the outside paint, so can be treated the same) Then took the 22ple trim glass coating and applied it to all CC wood trim.
Wheel Wells:
I did a wheel well care thread here that covers the work in this area. I have found on personal cars Plasti Dip black with PD Glossifier works wonders on the liners. The finish is perfect and darkens up the wheel well area the way it is supposed to be. Future cleaning has been simple so far and they look just as good 3 weeks later as the day I sprayed them. The Liners were completely removed to do this work. This allowed me to completely clean the inner wells and all suspension parts. You wouldn’t believe how dusty and dirty this area gets.
Wheels:
Typically I do not remove the wheels to clean them or the wheel wells. I move the front around to get the wells, but brush out the inside of the rims. (Do not want the risk of a lug breaking, or a scratch on the rim from a lug, or ultimately a rim loosening up, when it’s a Bentley, Porsche, BMW, Merc, or other exotic) too much risk.
Each rim was coated with 22ple wheel glass coating. This includes the barrel of the rim also. Makes it so easy to clean off brake dust, and all you have to use is soap and water from now one. No more APC use for me. Also keeps the wheels looking cleaner for longer and increases the gloss. I did polish up a few areas with the GG 3” and SF4000 before rewashing glassing.
Finished:
Vehicle was finished at this time. I nit picked the whole car with a thorough inspection. At this time I normally walk the owner through a wash and drying process, so he can minimize the micro marring during future washes. Several customers have complained that in the past, after a detail was done the car would be slick and perfect. But after a wash they cannot feel the slickness as much and could see scratches. I explained that more than likely the Fillers used in a lot of glazes and lower level products had been left to fill the micro scratches. A IPA wipe down eliminates the fillers, before the last step product was applied which wasn’t done in their previous dealings. Also I would wash it with them so he can see that after a wash and driving the vehicle would still look just as nice and perfect as the condition it arrived in. I set them up with a pdf file for appropriate products to maintain the finish and for washing and drying the vehicle. Rule of thumb 30% of scratches and micro marring come from the washing of a vehicle. 70% of the scratches and micro marring come from the drying of a vehicle. I always try to use a Metro Sidekick Blaster to dry with to eliminate that percentage and try to talk customers into purchasing one. However when they don’t want to do that, I stress that nothing but a MF drying towel purchased from a high quality store, will help prevent those marks. I also suggest using AMMO Hydrate, due to the lubricity that it creates with the mf towels. Works well.
I hope this write up helps some people. I try for perfection, but still years in I have a lot to learn and try to do so everyday. This is not a Job for me, this is just a perfection hobby that I do on mostly Higher end vehicles. I thought that working in some suggestions and processes might help newer detailers and explain what and why various processes take place. I actually ran into issues taking pictures with this car. The Paint is now so perfectly black that even under direct sunlight the camera doesn’t like it. I literally took 48 pictures just to get the following few. Some came out too dark, some a little blurry all because of the paint. It truly came out amazing and much better than my last E63 black one. In all the pictures the sun was shining on the paint. There were NO shadows on the car and you can see how on some parts like the wheels the light is bright, but the paint next to it is just black. I always try and get pictures to actually show the correction work, instead of how people show pics under fluorescents or shade which doesn’t show the quality. Only sunlit pictures show the true work done. I am pleased with these results. Comments are welcome ☺
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG 2008 80k Miles Paint Correction
Inspection:
Initial inspection showed the paint had typical marring and swirls, and normal scratches for a 80k vehicle. I measured paint levels and concluded no exterior paintwork had been done prior to my receiving it. Due to it being my vehicle, I wanted flawless so planned a 3-4 step correction. If you find deep marks (RIDs), dents, questionable areas remember to take pictures immediately and document the damage or issue, so that can be discussed with the customer up front, and it protects you from the customer returning asking how you damaged his vehicle. Members have had this issue to their vehicles before and posted threads.
Planned project for this vehicle. Paint Correction, paint calipers, correct wheel wells, remove bumpers and rockers and have painted, add carbon fiber lip and diffuser. Initial pictures below.
Test Panels:
My next step is working a test area, it is ALWAYS the top of the trunk. If something goes wrong that is the easiest place and cheapest place to re-spray. Typical Detailer Rules say Lower rear quarter panel is the least likely area a customer would see on a daily basis, so if you messed something up and there was time he would be driving it before the repair, the customer does not keep on seeing the damage and reminding him why he won't ever return to you for work. Keep that in mind when working a high-end vehicle, test the least visible, smallest panel that is separate from the rest of the car. The bumper areas are NOT a good indication of how a product might react to the work being done. It is plastic. So choose a nice area and try your main go to product and pad selection, first going least aggressive ie… Polishing light cutting pad w/ SF4000 or your polish of choice with the least cut. If you need to go into it further (which you will of course at least somewhere on the vehicle) start at the next least aggressive, ie….Polishing pad w/ FG400 or M105 or D300 (speaking of MF pads, you can start with the polishing pad and work your want into most aggressive for those also, same process, different materials).
Most people typically match their pads and products right off the bat. Think about what you are doing to achieve the result you actually want. A light cutting pad can be used with any polish or compound. The combination will decide the level of cut you will receive. So as an example, tangerine Hydro pad with Rupes Diamond polish will cut significantly less than the tangerine Hydro with Rupes Keramilk or Quartz. (D300, FG400). You can also lessen the severity of cutting by using SF4000 with a blue Hydro cut pad rather than the D300, FG400 types. Keep this in mind when you cut or polish, so when you need to only lightly cut or heavily polish you can also vary your pads to products instead of buying specific cutting or polishing products specific to pads. I don’t think most people think this way, and you can achieve great results without taking off half the clear coat (CC) and leaving some for the next person down the road.
Products vs. machines:
I typically use a Flex 3401, GG 3”, and the new PE-8 Rotary for 1” and 2” pads. Mike Philips has repeatedly gone over combinations with these machines and the threads written about them constantly people try to use different combinations than what is suggested and issues arise. It is highly recommended when using any 3401 to use the 4” backing plate and the LC Hybrid Pads in 5” size. They are specifically manufactured to work with and produce exceptional results. You will have less aggravation, and spend less money in the future. Meguire’s Micro Fiber (MF) discs worked great also, just seems on some paints the polishing MF Disc leaves a tad bit of micro marring so I like to finish with a foam pad. Think also about the quantity of pads you will use. Most people use no where near enough pads on a vehicle. Key to properly making the most of your work is to change out pads very regularly. Use a pad for each 1.5 panels. This will achieve the results you want, without making extra work. Clean pads = proper results.
This is a list of products used. Whole vehicle took unknown hours for a 3-4-step paint correction and all the other re-conditioning. (I have done this work over a 6 week time period) Vehicle came out better than new, and there was very little RIDs on the car when finished. Due to the hardness of Merc paint, I had to switch up on different panels, pads and compounds, to get the finish right. Some panels just needed two separate passes to get the initial correction to the level I was happy with. Then the Polishing was done in two stages, just to get that jeweled look as much as possible.
Products:
Menzerna FG400 @Autogeek.net
Menzerna SF4000 @Autogeek.net
Rupes Diamond @Autogeek.net
Modesta PA-01 Glass Primer
22ple Glass Coating PRO Level @DetailedImage
22ple Glass coating for Wheels and Metal @DetailedImage
Pads:
LC Hybrid Orange 5” @Autogeek.net
LC Hybrid White 5” @Autogeek.net
LC Hybrid Yellow 5” @Autogeek.net
LC Hybrid assortment 3” (Yellow cutting, white polishing) @Autogeek.net
Flex 1” Orange and green, Flex 2” Orange and Green
Soaps and Interior Products:
• Chemical Guys Honeydew @Autogeek.net
• AMMO Plum @ammonyc.com
• AMMO Lather @ammonyc.com
• Nanoskin 6” Light Disc @Autogeek.net
• Leatherique 2 Step Process @Autogeek.net
• P21s Wash
Tools:
Flex 3401 DA @Autogeek.net
Flex PE-8 Rotary @Autogeek.net
Griot’s Garage 3” DA polisher @Autogeek.net
Wool Wash Mitt @Autogeek.net
Microfiber towels from @Autogeek.net
Metro Sidekick Blaster @Autogeek.net
Halogen Spotlights for correction light (I turn off all lights and use this light when doing correction work) (switching over to 55w LEDS)
McCullough Steam Cleaner
The wash:
I started with the wheels first. (Actually removed all 4 for this process and the ease of glassing the barrels of them also) I used AMMO Plum iron deposit remover, let sit for 3-4 min and then used a tire brush and then a microfiber mitt to get into the interior of the rims. Then Hand washed with AMMO Wheel Soap the rest of the tires, rims, and wheel wells and suspension. I then rinsed off the wheels and wells, then rinsed off the whole vehicle to loosen any large dirt particles. I then used the two-bucket method with Chemical Guys Honeydew Soap and a Wool mitt and started on the roof. In between each panel I rinsed and re-soaked the wool mitt to lessen the chances of contaminating the next panel with particles. Then rinsed vehicle.
The clay bar:
After initial wash I used the Nanoskin 6” light Disc synthetic Clay using CG Honeydew Car Soap as lubricant. Then rewashed vehicle.
Drying:
Dried the vehicle using the Metro Sidekick Blaster to eliminate any chance of marring the finish any more than it was already. I do this no matter what anyway, takes a lot longer, but in the end there is no chance of marring the finish and all the water is out of the cracks and crevices.
Compounding:
Test panels showed the Flex 3401 DA w/ LC Hybrid Orange pads with the FG400 worked great. I also used the FG400 quite a bit with the GG3” and yellow 3” Hybrid foam pads due to the lower power. I used the Flex PE-08 Rotary with the orange cutting pads for intricate areas like around the trunk and license plate holder. Thin panels along top of doors and mirrors. I typically will use a Rotary in these areas to cut and polish, then go over it with the GG3” and SF4000 to make certain there are no holograms.
After each section was finished, the Brinkman was used to inspect for any heavy swirls or marring that the polishing steps would not remove. Most panels were pretty perfect with only very small and minor swirls in a few places. The Menzerna FG400 finishes really well, and was again thoroughly pleased with it.
Polishing:
All the fine polishes had long working times and removed easily when finished with the section. Typically worked a 2 by 2 section to maximize work area.
Next was a whole car polishing using the Menzerna SF4000 Polish with a White Hybrid Pad using the Flex on a setting of 4 for pass 2-3 and 3 for pass 4-7. The GG 3” was a white pad on setting 5-6 for small and tight areas.
When using the PE-8 with a polishing pad, I used the SF4000 with the green Flex pads. Spread product on setting 1 and polished it up on a setting of 2.5.
Next was the Rupes Diamond super fine polish, (I only did this step due to the time I had on my hands, and the desire to make it absolutely perfect) using a Black Hybrid Pad, on Flex setting of 2-3 with 5 lbs. pressure for pass 1-2 to diminish the abrasives quickly so passes 3-8 were Jeweling the CC. GG 3” was used on 4-5 with no pressure and used a no cut Black pad. This step is not necessary but I felt it increased the level of gloss by diminishing the very micro marring left by the white pads and SF4000. This would likely be totally unnecessary on any color except black.
Checking the Work:
All Panels were inspected for any swirls or marks, and each one found, a piece of tape was used to mark it. 9-10 spots were found and re-touched up using the white then black pads and appropriate polish. Then another inspection was done, and I concluded all possible scratches were removed. Typical Rock Chips in the front Valance, bumper, hood (Bonnet for the UK’ers), and right behind the front wheels on the lower rocker panels, were still there. Other than those spots the paint came out absolutely perfect. Plans for this car were to have the Front, Rear bumpers and the two lower rockers painted due to heavy scratches and massive sand blasting on the front bumper and lower rockers.
The Coating:
I have run into fine scratches in the past during the wash phase after polishing to rid the surface of any oils or polishing agents. Each time I try and come up with a way to NOT panel wipe, or run any type of product on the surface. I have finally gone to Pressure washing the paint and all the seals and cracks, then spraying P21s directly on the finish and rinsing the car off. This seems to clean the surface without me actually touching it.
Again the paint was inspected to make sure there were no scratches, RIDs, or marring that could be removed. Due to using the Modesta line of coating also in the past, I had a bottle of primer that I looked at the chemical composition and it was so similar to the 22ple that I thought I would try to use it the same way but with the 22ple glass.
I primed the vehicle by using a black no cut 3” pad on the GG3” and wiped off carefully 4 min later. Then waited the recommended 3 hours so the primer can cure.
I then coated the paint using 22ple pro glass coating. The coating goes on smooth (used a cut up foam black pad for application), and used a cross hatch pattern to reduce any high spots. Waited a full 5 min due to high humidity levels and started to remove with one MF towel, and then wiped clean with a second MF towel. This coating increases its gloss levels over time while it is curing. I was able to allow the vehicle to sit in the garage for 3 days. (total cure is supposed to be 5 days, however after 24hrs you can drive it without wet weather, give it at least 3 days before the wet weather). I also glassed the door jambs to make those areas easier to clean in the future.
The wax:
I waited one week then I decided to top the coating with a Polish Angel product. This is a special PA non retail product made specifically to top the 22ple coating. They added some of the same properties to the carnauba that are in the glass coatings so they will crosslink correctly. PA carnaubas are typically a paste carnauba that applies smooth (GG 3” black pad setting 2) and removes just as easy. I thought I noticed slight gloss level increase, however probably just me wanting it there. The surface feel did slick up some.
Windows:
Each window was Razor Bladed to remove any contamination. Then all surfaces were coated with GTechniq and buffed clear. (22ple just introduced a surface coating that will be tried next. Probably another similar version to GTechniq like most the others.
Leather:
All Leather and door panels were Steam cleaned. The Leatherique 2 step process was used on the front two seats and just the one step maintainer was used for the rear.
Interior:
Only several spots on the carpets needed cleaning, so I used the AMMO Lather and a brush to blot out the needed areas, then re-vacuumed the vehicle and put stripes with the brush into the carpet. All dash surfaces and center console areas were wiped down using AMMO Lather sprayed on a mf towel. ALL wood pieces were treated to a Menzerna SF4000 polish with a Microfiber pad, and then buffed to an incredible shine. (Most treated wood interiors have a CC the same as the outside paint, so can be treated the same) Then took the 22ple trim glass coating and applied it to all CC wood trim.
Wheel Wells:
I did a wheel well care thread here that covers the work in this area. I have found on personal cars Plasti Dip black with PD Glossifier works wonders on the liners. The finish is perfect and darkens up the wheel well area the way it is supposed to be. Future cleaning has been simple so far and they look just as good 3 weeks later as the day I sprayed them. The Liners were completely removed to do this work. This allowed me to completely clean the inner wells and all suspension parts. You wouldn’t believe how dusty and dirty this area gets.
Wheels:
Typically I do not remove the wheels to clean them or the wheel wells. I move the front around to get the wells, but brush out the inside of the rims. (Do not want the risk of a lug breaking, or a scratch on the rim from a lug, or ultimately a rim loosening up, when it’s a Bentley, Porsche, BMW, Merc, or other exotic) too much risk.
Each rim was coated with 22ple wheel glass coating. This includes the barrel of the rim also. Makes it so easy to clean off brake dust, and all you have to use is soap and water from now one. No more APC use for me. Also keeps the wheels looking cleaner for longer and increases the gloss. I did polish up a few areas with the GG 3” and SF4000 before rewashing glassing.
Finished:
Vehicle was finished at this time. I nit picked the whole car with a thorough inspection. At this time I normally walk the owner through a wash and drying process, so he can minimize the micro marring during future washes. Several customers have complained that in the past, after a detail was done the car would be slick and perfect. But after a wash they cannot feel the slickness as much and could see scratches. I explained that more than likely the Fillers used in a lot of glazes and lower level products had been left to fill the micro scratches. A IPA wipe down eliminates the fillers, before the last step product was applied which wasn’t done in their previous dealings. Also I would wash it with them so he can see that after a wash and driving the vehicle would still look just as nice and perfect as the condition it arrived in. I set them up with a pdf file for appropriate products to maintain the finish and for washing and drying the vehicle. Rule of thumb 30% of scratches and micro marring come from the washing of a vehicle. 70% of the scratches and micro marring come from the drying of a vehicle. I always try to use a Metro Sidekick Blaster to dry with to eliminate that percentage and try to talk customers into purchasing one. However when they don’t want to do that, I stress that nothing but a MF drying towel purchased from a high quality store, will help prevent those marks. I also suggest using AMMO Hydrate, due to the lubricity that it creates with the mf towels. Works well.
I hope this write up helps some people. I try for perfection, but still years in I have a lot to learn and try to do so everyday. This is not a Job for me, this is just a perfection hobby that I do on mostly Higher end vehicles. I thought that working in some suggestions and processes might help newer detailers and explain what and why various processes take place. I actually ran into issues taking pictures with this car. The Paint is now so perfectly black that even under direct sunlight the camera doesn’t like it. I literally took 48 pictures just to get the following few. Some came out too dark, some a little blurry all because of the paint. It truly came out amazing and much better than my last E63 black one. In all the pictures the sun was shining on the paint. There were NO shadows on the car and you can see how on some parts like the wheels the light is bright, but the paint next to it is just black. I always try and get pictures to actually show the correction work, instead of how people show pics under fluorescents or shade which doesn’t show the quality. Only sunlit pictures show the true work done. I am pleased with these results. Comments are welcome ☺
01-22-2015, 09:06 AM
#2
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Nice write up. I plan on doing a 2 day marathon in the garage this weekend with my paint. My techtite paint looks killer but I have light swirl marks and small abrasions where the PO tried to scrub off bird **** with a paper towel. I'll use a few of your tips and see how it turns out. I can mask it with a spray on polish but I don't want to mask it anymore.
01-30-2015, 09:01 AM
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'15 E63S wagon
Clean car is a happy car. Excellent work and write up. Very valuable.
I have used Griots Garage products in the past with good results. Their cutting polishes, rotary tools and pads have served me well, but always looking for better stuff. Thanks.
I have used Griots Garage products in the past with good results. Their cutting polishes, rotary tools and pads have served me well, but always looking for better stuff. Thanks.
01-30-2015, 10:04 AM
#5
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Excellent attention to detail! Your work is first class.
I'm in Nova as well....feel like working on my ride
I always can't help but think when regular folks talk about which product is better that it is like guys arguing over which race car is faster....when the vast majority out there can't even get to 100% of a good street cars potential on the track.
For most of us amateurs, the technique is much more important than the products. While the Mez polishes were specifically designed for the Mercedes paint, beyond that it would take a very skilled individual to get significantly better results with one product or another.
I learned this lesson the hard way, chasing the "best" product...lol.
It wasn't until I really focused on my technique that I got better results.
Again, great work OP!
I'm in Nova as well....feel like working on my ride
I always can't help but think when regular folks talk about which product is better that it is like guys arguing over which race car is faster....when the vast majority out there can't even get to 100% of a good street cars potential on the track.
For most of us amateurs, the technique is much more important than the products. While the Mez polishes were specifically designed for the Mercedes paint, beyond that it would take a very skilled individual to get significantly better results with one product or another.
I learned this lesson the hard way, chasing the "best" product...lol.
It wasn't until I really focused on my technique that I got better results.
Again, great work OP!
01-31-2015, 02:49 AM
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I've never tried a glass coat before, much less one that costs $90 per unit. I'm curious how it would work, if it is indeed better than what I currently use, and I'm glad the OP shared his experience and product experience.
01-31-2015, 10:20 AM
#7
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Since this is directed at me, I will say that my technique is solid and results have been wonderful with Griots and other retail products. Perhaps "better" was the wrong word choice.
I've never tried a glass coat before, much less one that costs $90 per unit. I'm curious how it would work, if it is indeed better than what I currently use, and I'm glad the OP shared his experience and product experience.
I've never tried a glass coat before, much less one that costs $90 per unit. I'm curious how it would work, if it is indeed better than what I currently use, and I'm glad the OP shared his experience and product experience.
Last edited by cij911; 02-01-2015 at 09:37 AM.
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01-31-2015, 11:15 AM
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02-01-2015, 01:27 AM
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13' E350 4matic, 08' E63
@Toadster I am currently working the stupid wheel weight tape off two that are stubborn. Goof off, Goo Gone, 3m ad remover they all are not working well with a plastic Razor Blade. Worked for 1.5 hrs on one wheel last sunday and gave up for now. Might try again tomorrow. I got all the rust off the centers of the rear calipers (painted them that light grey color after sanding the current rust spots off, but didnt do the top flat part of the rotor (pain)) and then painted the ring and tab areas of the 2-piece of the fronts. They all look nice and perfect now.
Business - sure I could do one but the problem isn't me taking too long, but rather I would not want to do one nice PC per week then have to wash and wax a Camry everyday. I would be very bored and wouldn't want to go into the shop. I would rather sleep in. LOL. Now if I went into the shop and worked a Merc, BMW, Ferrari everyday thats diff. I would likely enjoy it enough to not do what I really do for work. Honestly I can't give up what I really do, I enjoy it too much and need to feel that I am helping to keep the Country safer. I do so this stays a hobby.
@Worth the Wait - I should be back up in NoVa (alexandria) sometime end of Feb. Yes I could help you out no problem if you have the space to do the work. If you have experience with a DA then it won't be difficult and take a weekend to make it perfect.
Griots makes some decent products, nothing to be ashamed of. On forums, here and 6speed (Aston and Bentley sections) where I have posted and then when talking to people at C &C's about detailing, the number one and two products getting mentioned are Meguire's and Griots. Due to being able to get them from AZ typically Most people jump up to the Griots due to being a little more tailored to detailers and their DA machines. Are they good products, yes. But not as tailored as you can get with others. Everyone has their favorites and if yours is Meg's, Griots, Adams, Chemical Guys, Sonax, CarPro, etc that is just fine. Its whatever it takes to get the best finish possible for your goal. Mine is perfection so after trying many different products I settled on the Menzerna FG400 for cutting and the SF4000 for polish followed by the Rupes Diamond micro polish for jeweling the paint. Cerami Clear paints BMW and Mercs are tough to work with. getting a light correction is not to difficult but getting the deeper swirls is not easy. Using the right package makes life a lot easier, thats why I posted what I know works well on these paints. Seems to work just fine on all the others too so I stock up on them. If needing to vary the cut or polish I just switch up the pads to lessen the cut or polish.
New Trick on black soft paint ------ Very light polishing pads with little to no cut compress greatly even with no pressure under the machine. That means the foam cells are smooshed and don't polish properly and won't take out the very light haze or micro marring. You can go to a slightly stiffer polishing pad that cuts more, but take the polish like Rupes Diamond (mix it 1:3 with DI water in a spray bottle) and then spray on the pad and lightly polish the paint. This keeps the foam cells open and working like they are supposed to, but keeps the polishing cut to a minimum. Thought I would share a professional tip for rare situations that are tough to work.
Will post some pics of reworked (Toadsters fault) areas
) Biggest issue with the black paint now is taking pictures. The Car's black paint soaks up all the light and doesn't reflect it like most cars do. So when taking pictures the iPhone doesn't set the setting correctly and pictures come out dark.. Good problem to have, but working on a solution.
02-01-2015, 02:24 AM
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Guys I wasn't directing my comments towards anyone here. More about how often I have heard (and started this discussion and what I have learned from it.
this discussion and what I have learned from it.
02-01-2015, 09:41 AM
#11
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Great write-up btw...
Can I ask which products you use for your wheels and how you like it ? I use Griots Wheel Cleaner, but it does not seem to last very long (I need to use a lot) and is not cheap.
Also, any tips on cleaning the inside lip of the wheels (other than removing from car) ? I am looking for a better way to clean my wheels every wash.
Thanks
Can I ask which products you use for your wheels and how you like it ? I use Griots Wheel Cleaner, but it does not seem to last very long (I need to use a lot) and is not cheap.
Also, any tips on cleaning the inside lip of the wheels (other than removing from car) ? I am looking for a better way to clean my wheels every wash.
Thanks
02-01-2015, 02:34 PM
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13' E350 4matic, 08' E63
Here is my thought on products. If you can run up the road and pick a product up from AZ or O'reillys then its not really a typically good product to use for Paint corrections. The products there including Meg's are lower grade, less intensive items. There are a few items that are not bad (Meg's Ultimate line) (M105/205) that can be had there, but typically when I hear a person tell me what they use, and I know it can be bought at Wally's World or AZ I know they don't know what they are doing or understand what they are trying to accomplish.
Once you dive into the world of specific lines of products or specific products you learn to what is good and not good. Autogeek.net is a great place to look and learn. Then start trying out things and see what works for you. The pads, machines, polishes, sealants available on several sites are incredible and locally nothing compares. Everyone has their favorites and promote them also so whatever works for the individual works. Honestly for those that care about their cars and want them to look great, learning the art of paint correction is a great self satisfying thing to learn. Thousands can be spent on it no problem, yes I have spent that much no problem, but for me I wanted to help us MB owners out with minimizing what needs to be spent to make them perfect. Learn from others mistakes for sure.
For wheels on my cars ----- I take them off and clean everything as perfect as possible. I do use Nanoskin synthetic clay on them also. (I didnt want to mess with tire weight residue so left that for a later day, but normally use 3m adhesive remover and a plastic razor blade to take that off). Then a few areas needed to be polished slightly and used my Griots Garage 3" with a polish pad and Menzerna SF4000 to polish them up. Then washed them down to remove oils. I then applied 22ple Wheel Glass Coating to the outside and inside barrel of he wheel. This not only shines them up greatly, but allows for dirt and brake dust to not accumalate on the wheel. Washing them I only use car wash soap and a special Microfiber mitt. No degreasers at all. The clear coat on wheels is the same as on the paint, so treat it the same. I did a thread on Wheel Well car which can give you an idea for those areas also. No degreasers for me.
Takes about 1.5 hrs per wheel (might as well do the wheel well liners at the same time, my other thread) to do this process. As a simple in the meantime type of job, use CarPro Hydro 2 product. You can use this anywhere on the car including glass, grilles, paint etc..... This will help you out keeping brake dust off them also. No shine but protects all surfaces with a sealant. Spray on and water pressure spray off. Simple application.
Once you dive into the world of specific lines of products or specific products you learn to what is good and not good. Autogeek.net is a great place to look and learn. Then start trying out things and see what works for you. The pads, machines, polishes, sealants available on several sites are incredible and locally nothing compares. Everyone has their favorites and promote them also so whatever works for the individual works. Honestly for those that care about their cars and want them to look great, learning the art of paint correction is a great self satisfying thing to learn. Thousands can be spent on it no problem, yes I have spent that much no problem, but for me I wanted to help us MB owners out with minimizing what needs to be spent to make them perfect. Learn from others mistakes for sure.
Great write-up btw...
Can I ask which products you use for your wheels and how you like it ? I use Griots Wheel Cleaner, but it does not seem to last very long (I need to use a lot) and is not cheap.
Also, any tips on cleaning the inside lip of the wheels (other than removing from car) ? I am looking for a better way to clean my wheels every wash.
Thanks
Can I ask which products you use for your wheels and how you like it ? I use Griots Wheel Cleaner, but it does not seem to last very long (I need to use a lot) and is not cheap.
Also, any tips on cleaning the inside lip of the wheels (other than removing from car) ? I am looking for a better way to clean my wheels every wash.
Thanks
For wheels on my cars ----- I take them off and clean everything as perfect as possible. I do use Nanoskin synthetic clay on them also. (I didnt want to mess with tire weight residue so left that for a later day, but normally use 3m adhesive remover and a plastic razor blade to take that off). Then a few areas needed to be polished slightly and used my Griots Garage 3" with a polish pad and Menzerna SF4000 to polish them up. Then washed them down to remove oils. I then applied 22ple Wheel Glass Coating to the outside and inside barrel of he wheel. This not only shines them up greatly, but allows for dirt and brake dust to not accumalate on the wheel. Washing them I only use car wash soap and a special Microfiber mitt. No degreasers at all. The clear coat on wheels is the same as on the paint, so treat it the same. I did a thread on Wheel Well car which can give you an idea for those areas also. No degreasers for me.
Takes about 1.5 hrs per wheel (might as well do the wheel well liners at the same time, my other thread) to do this process. As a simple in the meantime type of job, use CarPro Hydro 2 product. You can use this anywhere on the car including glass, grilles, paint etc..... This will help you out keeping brake dust off them also. No shine but protects all surfaces with a sealant. Spray on and water pressure spray off. Simple application.
02-02-2015, 09:37 AM
#13
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^ Thanks for the detailed thread and response !! I guess I need to try a stronger cut (like the FG400) as none of my light polishes have been able to remove the swirls and light scratches.
I'll also look into the CarPro Hydro 2.
I'll also look into the CarPro Hydro 2.
02-02-2015, 11:46 AM
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That won't get rid of all scratches and swirls but will lessen them and polish (brighten) up the clear coat.
FG400 is perfect to use then follow up with SF4000 or 4500. Trust me I have tried a lot of different kinds, these just work for me the best. A lot of polishes will work its just the cutting phase that is difficult.
Your machine and pad combinations make a huge difference also. I originally was using the Flex 3401 with Lake Country 6.5" CCS pads. Then dropped down to the Hydro Tech LC pads at 6" and it did better, but not perfect. (time and cut quality) Then many users said to get the 4" backing plate and then use the LC Hybrid Pads at 5". It was a night and day difference. IMO if using the Flex nothing should be used but that line of pads and in that size. Large ones don't work as well. You will get more accomplished in a shorter time with better results. That part is Fact.
What machine are you using and I might be able to help you with pad ideas. For small pads like 3" I vary and try many pads. I have no favorites using the GG3" DA buffer. It varies per car.
02-02-2015, 12:42 PM
#15
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The Mercs use Cermi Clear for their clear coats. A 1 step polish does nothing to remove any swirls, found that one out on a full detail of a customers. If if someone is trying to remove best way is to use a dedicated (Menzerna SF4000) polish with a DA and then after put a sealant on it.
That won't get rid of all scratches and swirls but will lessen them and polish (brighten) up the clear coat.
FG400 is perfect to use then follow up with SF4000 or 4500. Trust me I have tried a lot of different kinds, these just work for me the best. A lot of polishes will work its just the cutting phase that is difficult.
Your machine and pad combinations make a huge difference also. I originally was using the Flex 3401 with Lake Country 6.5" CCS pads. Then dropped down to the Hydro Tech LC pads at 6" and it did better, but not perfect. (time and cut quality) Then many users said to get the 4" backing plate and then use the LC Hybrid Pads at 5". It was a night and day difference. IMO if using the Flex nothing should be used but that line of pads and in that size. Large ones don't work as well. You will get more accomplished in a shorter time with better results. That part is Fact.
What machine are you using and I might be able to help you with pad ideas. For small pads like 3" I vary and try many pads. I have no favorites using the GG3" DA buffer. It varies per car.
That won't get rid of all scratches and swirls but will lessen them and polish (brighten) up the clear coat.
FG400 is perfect to use then follow up with SF4000 or 4500. Trust me I have tried a lot of different kinds, these just work for me the best. A lot of polishes will work its just the cutting phase that is difficult.
Your machine and pad combinations make a huge difference also. I originally was using the Flex 3401 with Lake Country 6.5" CCS pads. Then dropped down to the Hydro Tech LC pads at 6" and it did better, but not perfect. (time and cut quality) Then many users said to get the 4" backing plate and then use the LC Hybrid Pads at 5". It was a night and day difference. IMO if using the Flex nothing should be used but that line of pads and in that size. Large ones don't work as well. You will get more accomplished in a shorter time with better results. That part is Fact.
What machine are you using and I might be able to help you with pad ideas. For small pads like 3" I vary and try many pads. I have no favorites using the GG3" DA buffer. It varies per car.
07-10-2015, 08:43 PM
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13' E350 4matic, 08' E63
I use the Griots Random Orbital 6" buffer. I have been using the Menzerna SI1500, followed by the SF4500, followed by the power lock sealant. The SI1500 really did nothing (that I could tell), so I'm guessing I need to go the 400 / 500 route. Pad wise, I use the Lake Country Black and Blue pads, as well as the Griots pads. (Maybe none of these are strong enough for cutting ??)
FG400 is the cutting polish and is the best Menzerna makes, but pad machine combination really makes the difference. Some machines like only certain size pads, some certain actual pads, and wont be as effective if something different is used. Check the detailing forums for your machine specifically and the write ups for what pads they like best, then buy pads. Likely like most people they are different pads than what you bought, so you buy more and the old pads thrown out.
SF4000 or 4500 are some of the best polishes on the market, they both work about the same, the 4500 doesn't have quite the amount of light cut that the 4k does. I use 4k personally then do a final polish with Rupes Diamond (watered down) and a no cut pad. Otherwise would likely do the 4500 due to FG400 finishing down really nice.
07-14-2015, 11:42 AM
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I recently realised the difference and I like 040 more because its a deeper and truer black so the next time I buy a black car I will watch out for metallic vs solid black. My cars have been obsidian and I never felt like it was a true BLACK. Id seen black cars before that looked like they were dipped in black ink and wondered why mine, even when detailed never looked that way.
07-14-2015, 03:27 PM
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I recently realised the difference and I like 040 more because its a deeper and truer black so the next time I buy a black car I will watch out for metallic vs solid black. My cars have been obsidian and I never felt like it was a true BLACK. Id seen black cars before that looked like they were dipped in black ink and wondered why mine, even when detailed never looked that way.
07-14-2015, 04:34 PM
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I would rather it be metallic myself, the pop I can get out of those is incredible. Yes it doesn't have the depth of this, but ones like the Techtite or the Designo Gunmetal Metallic can be incredible. 9 Months later after all that work in this article and its still just about perfect
I don't know that much about detailing to be honest, so are you saying metallic black can be made to shine more than solid black?
07-14-2015, 07:51 PM
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No don't get me wrong, if it's grey or iridium or indium or any other color it has to be metallic. Metallic is GORGEOUS especially in the sun, I just think BLACK is a color that can be better on it's own because of it's reflective and deep nature.
I don't know that much about detailing to be honest, so are you saying metallic black can be made to shine more than solid black?
I don't know that much about detailing to be honest, so are you saying metallic black can be made to shine more than solid black?
040 in perfection like above, look at the pics, the light doesn't bounce off the paint so the camera has trouble catching it and making it perfect looking. In person its pops, but those sunset pictures look good but in person was awesome. The depth of the paint looks like you can just fall into it, similar to a pool with a black liner. When clean or even dirty they look great when done like mine, when not done they only look ok except at night or cloudy weather.
Black is hands down the hardest to perfect, I personally have just been lucky to have done my x2 E63's in black, x2 Maserati's in black, Bentley CGT in black, Ferrari in black and a Lambo in dark charcoal so got my fair share of perfection and what it takes. Got the Ferrari second one right after I did mine and was nervous to say the least. This is not my job. Guy wanted the orange peel taken off the engine cover and vents, had to explain that no way was I doing any of that process. I could just imagine a slight mistake, and a 5k repaint of that panel. I told him let me do my thing and then lets re-evaluate. He loved my work and didnt care about the peel anymore. Any other color except maybe dark blue for me is fairly easy, a 85-90% correction looks about perfect, with black it has to get up to 95-98% to really be above and beyond.
