Max.H

Dear Water Meth Guru's of MBWORLD,


Just got a devils own water meth kit single nozzle from a buddy. Ive searched but could not find specific info about my very simple setup.

Vehicle: Stock E55 with CM30 pump

Desired results: Preserve factory level of Power during run and repeated runs, Lower IAT's, Bump in octane, "Preserve ignition timing advance"

New Setup: Devils Own water methanol kit w/ 1 nozzle, primary cat delete, replace stock collector with 3" pipe. Stock Tune, Stock Pulley.


Comments:

I will not modify the tune or pulley at this time. So, I need to preserve power by way of water meth kit alone. The shardul 3" primary cat delete and manifold mod is good for 20 whp and 20 wtq alone I'm told.



How can I acheive the desired results?

What is best method to mantain full factory performance without passing threshold of AFR and richening up mixture, thus slowing the car down….

Questions:

2. Should I run water only? Just to lower IAT's, Will that raise my octane, lower IAT and maintain full stock level ignition timing?

3. Should I run 80/20, 90/10 water to methanol? Or some other mixture? 50/50 seems aggressive. Am I wrong? I'm worried that it will richen up my mixture and actually slow my car down. We want to avoid that at all costs.

4. What is the right mixture of water to methanol to to lower IAT and make more power without richening up mixture on stock tune?

5. If water is best method, What jet size should I run for water only?

6. If water meth is best method, What jet size for water/methanol?


Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to be thorough.

***Edited***
Thanks for looking!

BC928

Great questions. Lets see what happens!

SPatykAMG

Honestly I don't see it giving you much without a good amount of adjustment to the tune. Most everyone uses it just for cooling. I run a 2 nozzle system with one at the throttle body and one post intercooler. I done have the sizes with me but its in my files at home if you need it. I am currently running 75/25 water/meth.

SPatykAMG

I don't mean for that to sound like you can't make extra power with it but more you have to adjust your tune and then realize you are trusting your AFR with a $500 pump and switch system.

Hulk

The shardul 3" collector will not yield you 20/20, you need the whole mod not just the cats.

The more water you use the smaller the nozzle.

Only a tune will increase timing and Jerry will not increase timing based on a water/meth because there are things that can go wrong with the system and the ecu most probably will not pull timing back fast enough to save the motor.

Now if you use water only to lower iats it will keep your timing constant and you will not suffer from pulled timing.

Max.H

I was actually planning to do the whole mod, eliminate primary cat, 3" collector to 3" pipe to the factory H pipe. I think that is it right?

I want to maintain ignition timing advance. Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Sounds promising!! Water injection? Where should I place the nozzle for that?

What about 90/10 water to meth.. Just a tiny portion of meth. >:-)

I thought I could get a little more detail before contacting devils own… Thought you guys could share a little insight.

I'm good with the ability of maintaining lower IAT. That alone should help preserve power. That is what I am looking for. So I can do more back to back runs and help preserve the full level of factory performance.

Thank you for the replies! Anyone else have something to share?

Hulk

90 water 10 meth will be good, not too big a nozzle and put it after the ic not too close to the iat sensor.

On the manifolds...No more is involved.

The manifolds need to be cut open and gutted, then a 3" collector put on

It's a lot of work. Ask shardul, he said he would never do it again lol

Max.H

I hear you, thank you.. My question should have been more clear sorry.

I want to maintain full level of factory performance. Basically I want to prevent ecu from retarding my timing. So, not really increase but maintain. Because our cars lose power during first run, then repeated pass you can feel 30 maybe 40 hp loss easily. But, the first pass. whoever is next to you.. It's a doozy.

Would you suggest pure Water injection or just a tiny bit of meth? Or would that tiny bit of meth just end of richening up my mixture.

Where is the optimum location for nozzle? Pre IAT Sensor??

Thanks for chiming in!

Max.H

Aww That's right, I totally forgot about the gutting part. You are right, I would pick yours up. But, I have buddies that will work for beer! So, if that doesn't work out I will buy yours if you still have them.


Post IC - Pre IAT Sensor…. What about nozzle size? Or should I just contact devils own to ask?

The Nozzle I have are # 2 and # 4…. My buddy says its good for water only. Not pure meth on a V8 with F/I. Whatever the heck that means.

Lots of good info, thanks guys!

Hulk

My manis are gone bro.

Try a #3 or #4 for that mixture.

Don't play with the pressure of the pump.

Max.H

Ok, good to know.


I was checking some old meth threads from 2010 and it seems some people run post IC opposite side of map sensor before the IAT.. Does that setup still work? No issues with map sensor failing from direct spraying?

Some say that spraying before the supercharger makes more sense as that thing generate a ton of heat. I like that idea… BUt, is that no longer valid?

I hope this thread can help others who have these kinds of questions about water meth kits. I know we all despise High IAT'S!

Hulk

Opposite of the sensor is fine, but with time anything can happen,remember that lol

I think spraying in the blower will probably help seal up the rotors but not needed.

Max.H

hahahaha, Noted kind sir… OK, Maybe just offset of the map sensor then LoL. I can go a little higher or closer the y pipe right?

Seal up the rotors? Didn't quite get that sorry. So, is pre blower determined to be bad idea for bearings and coating on the rotors?

Hulk

No at the y pipe is the iat sensor stay away from thatyou can put it right after the ic on the side.

Can it be bad for bearings? Hard to say, I know a few that have been doing it without issues but then I had an old tuner from renntech tell me that the meth can deteriorate the bearings, but who knows, in any case you don't need it.

Max.H

Sounds good thank you kind sir.

Well, looks like the setup will be:

Windshield washer tank, pump mounted behind fender, single nozzle #4 size Post IC on the side opposite from map sensor. 90/10 water / methanol or windshield washer fluid.

So, is that a confirmed No Go on 50/50 water meth mixture for my setup and goals?

Hulk

50/50 affects afr, and without tuning or removing fuel just not worth it, stay safe

Max.H

Ok. Done..

Forgot to ask.. What about pressure signal to activate the system at certain psi. Where do I tap into that? I don't remember seeing a vacuum hose anywhere.

I am thinking of activating the system at 3-4 PSI to start to cool before it gets up into the really hot zone. So, it already has time to cool the charge air and can help maintain it smoothly. Instead of a shock @ 7-8 psi. Does that sound ok? Keep in mind stock boost level. Not sure where the boost tapers off but I want to maintain the injection during full WOT pulls.

Hulk

Tap the surge tank for boost reference.
Start it at 5-6psi

Max.H

Ok got it, Either side surge tank should be fine right? Do you have a particular spot on the surge tank to recommend?

That #4 nozzle should be good for 90/10 water meth right? Thats all I got. #2 or #4 nozzle. I do not want to take this off again. It's gotta be done right and 1 time thing.

JoeNobody

I'm surprised nobody sells a water/washer fluid injection kit in a box, designed for M113K

It would be quite effective (and cheap!) if setup just to reduce intake manifold air temp.

Hulk

Max either side is fine. You can tap it on the side near the supercharger if you like.

Worth the wait

Here is my favorite, and I believe most informative, injection thread:

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...y-finally.html

I would just tap into the windshield washer tank for ease of install.
In regards to timing, by cooling the intake charge you will keep the car from pulling timing, so in a way you are increasing timing.

Good luck!

Max.H

Thank you kind sir! Ive just read through it. Lots of good info. Now I just need to find the time to install this thing. Will report back when done in upcoming weeks.

Hulk

If you see that it bogs then you either have to change the nozzle to a smaller one or start the injection later maybe at 7-8psi.

Max.H

Sounds logical. Thank You.