Programmable tcu for factory cars with a 722.6
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Mercedes
Programmable tcu for factory cars with a 722.6
Originally Posted by DVC
Was reading this old thread and thinking the same:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...63-vs-e55.html
Of course, the rumor has always been that the 7G couldn't handle the torque, but who wouldn't want to try?
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...63-vs-e55.html
Of course, the rumor has always been that the 7G couldn't handle the torque, but who wouldn't want to try?
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'06 E55 AMG
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
To answer about testing in an e55. No I have not yet. But the way the cars operate is the same as far as this is concerned. It is just tuning that would change a little for the additional power. I need to get the wheel speed sensor data sorted for these. I will take a look at it and see what is going on. I have tested on lots of different Mercedes and Mopars. The w211 is the 1st one I have seen that the data from the traction control for the wheel speed sensor is not correct. We developed this off of a Mercedes but the main intent is the Mopar community as volume is way higher. They are just making a lot more power and revving higher and run into limp mode a lot.
When I get the wheel speed sensor data sorted it will just be a matter of tuning for the cars. Which should be fairly straight forward.
As far as the 7g transmissions. They are mechatronic. And to use mechatronic transmissions we do something very different. We use a module to either translate the data on the CAN bus or emulate what needs to be there so the factory tcu will work as though it is in its normal environment. The problem with doing this in the 7g is that it has drive authorization the same as the factory ecu. So it will not work with out the correct hash from the EIS. It might be possible to put a 7g into a e55 since they did come in a me2.8 equipped w211 and w219. But coding it to have the right tune for proper function would be something a tuner would have to do. There would be no way of getting a scn string for the e55 from Mercedes. It is not impossible just going to be difficult and probably will never happen for the 2-3 people that might be willing to pay for it.
When I get the wheel speed sensor data sorted it will just be a matter of tuning for the cars. Which should be fairly straight forward.
As far as the 7g transmissions. They are mechatronic. And to use mechatronic transmissions we do something very different. We use a module to either translate the data on the CAN bus or emulate what needs to be there so the factory tcu will work as though it is in its normal environment. The problem with doing this in the 7g is that it has drive authorization the same as the factory ecu. So it will not work with out the correct hash from the EIS. It might be possible to put a 7g into a e55 since they did come in a me2.8 equipped w211 and w219. But coding it to have the right tune for proper function would be something a tuner would have to do. There would be no way of getting a scn string for the e55 from Mercedes. It is not impossible just going to be difficult and probably will never happen for the 2-3 people that might be willing to pay for it.
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2011 E63, 2013 CLS63
It's already been done. Look up CLS500 AMG conversion, the guy used his 7G for a LONG time. He didn't have ESP and had a light the whole time but it worked. It's a CLS500 gearbox too and it apparently held the power and torque.
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'06 E55
Do you have a link to the car you're talking about? I'd like to read it.
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2011 E63, 2013 CLS63
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
That is a lot different because it had the 722.9 in the car. He swapped and engine and ecu. And the transmission did not last very long. You need to get the coding into the 7g to swap it into your car. It might work but it really depends on if an sds would let you take a unlock used tcu and marry it to the vehicle. The ecu is different because they are both me2.8 ecus. The 722.6 does not get married to the das system. It should technically be possible but it really depends on what an sds will allow you to do. My guess is that you would need a cgw from or code it to a 7g car to access the 7g tcu. I had to do this with a my diesel swap I am doing to get the sds to let me access the cdi ecu.
Again that is just part of the problem. The tcu has to have the correct tuning in it to handle the power and the only way to get that, atleast that I know of is to have an used unit and get it unlocked. Like I said maybe a tuner could dump a file in a tcu for you.
But this is a little off topic.
Again that is just part of the problem. The tcu has to have the correct tuning in it to handle the power and the only way to get that, atleast that I know of is to have an used unit and get it unlocked. Like I said maybe a tuner could dump a file in a tcu for you.
But this is a little off topic.
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
Well simple fix for the wheel speed data. They just put a status bit in for forwards and reverse. Just have to change the bit length in the code and do not have to rearrange anything and it will not be a special case which is good.
Will get this done pretty soon and continue with testing.
Will get this done pretty soon and continue with testing.
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
Definitely still in development. I am working out stuff on a daily basis. No eta on this yet though. I am driving with it in my daily driver and working on the shift pressure strategies and also doing testing in random other factor cars to see how everything translates from chassis to chassis, engine to engine etc.
Once I feel it is 100% solid and I have an answer to what will need to be tuned by the end user and how I can support it properly I will update everyone.
Once I feel it is 100% solid and I have an answer to what will need to be tuned by the end user and how I can support it properly I will update everyone.
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2011 C63 AMG, 589hp
Subscribed this thread yesterday.
Whipple, a couple of questions if i can steal some of your time.
Does this little system 'talk' to canbussystem?
Well,, that´s the only question actually.
But i´m qurious about this, if it will seamlessly function in an C55 AMG.
Rgds
Patrick
Whipple, a couple of questions if i can steal some of your time.
Does this little system 'talk' to canbussystem?
Well,, that´s the only question actually.
But i´m qurious about this, if it will seamlessly function in an C55 AMG.
Rgds
Patrick
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
Patrick,
Yes it does. Well I should say withing a certain range it does. Pretty much any me2.8 generation car it works with so far. I have had it in about 5 different cars now. Ranging from w203 with the m271 to an s500 with m113. I have a cl65 at the shop today that I am going to try it out on.
Yes it does. Well I should say withing a certain range it does. Pretty much any me2.8 generation car it works with so far. I have had it in about 5 different cars now. Ranging from w203 with the m271 to an s500 with m113. I have a cl65 at the shop today that I am going to try it out on.
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2011 C63 AMG, 589hp
Yes,, keep us posted.
this is really interesting as i at this point touches the torquelimit in my tuned tcu.
Does it report to infodisplay the actual gear?
And does the shiftbuttons on steeringwheel still work?
this is really interesting as i at this point touches the torquelimit in my tuned tcu.
Does it report to infodisplay the actual gear?
And does the shiftbuttons on steeringwheel still work?
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
It has current gear on the display.
Tip works from the shifter and most paddles just go through the shifter. If not and they are wired separately that can also be accommodated. But if it is a separate can message stream then no. These are the kind of things that vary from model and year. I will have to check them out as time goes on.
As far as tq limiters. This will have programmable limits in the tcu. Right now there are none. The reason we want peak tq limits still available is that there are cars that make enough torque to snap the input shaft off. This is really just a problem that I have seen on the Mopars that make a lot more tq. Around 900-1000lb/ft to the wheels or more.
Tip works from the shifter and most paddles just go through the shifter. If not and they are wired separately that can also be accommodated. But if it is a separate can message stream then no. These are the kind of things that vary from model and year. I will have to check them out as time goes on.
As far as tq limiters. This will have programmable limits in the tcu. Right now there are none. The reason we want peak tq limits still available is that there are cars that make enough torque to snap the input shaft off. This is really just a problem that I have seen on the Mopars that make a lot more tq. Around 900-1000lb/ft to the wheels or more.
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
I do not have any video. But here is a log of a stock transmission plus a standalone tcm and a modified valve body. This is from a Dodge Charger 5.7 hemi with a lot of spray. This was from a 10.4- pass at 132mph. It spun the tires a little at the end of the 2-3 shift. You can see the time at the bottom for the ratio change. You can also see the turbine ramp on the 1-2 shift at the beginning. So this was around .1245sec. for ratio change with a fill time of .1178sec. This car makes around 700 whp. Still trying to get it to launch. It has to big of a cam in it to make any torque down low and we cannot get the converter to be loose enough to get the rpms up and still have it grab. Also the nitrous does not get hit until after the 60' and shut down before the end to keep from going over 135 mph. It has trapped at 140. Things to work out.
We can run the pressures to what ever the valve body is capable of and also this is with no tq reduction on shifts, so full power.
We can run the pressures to what ever the valve body is capable of and also this is with no tq reduction on shifts, so full power.
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
Working on it daily. We just implemented a new strategy for the gear ratio detection. And fixed a few bugs. I have a shorter list. But still a little ways off. Once I have it dialed in I will still have to build some tunes for a few different cars. After the 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi the E55 is on the short list. But from what I have been seeing there should be very little difference in the tunes.
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
On the lock up. Basically there is none at WOT. Unless something changed at some point that I am not aware Mercedes just releases the converter at high loads. It is used for efficiency.
They did change how it works in the later years but I still think it releases.
They did change how it works in the later years but I still think it releases.
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From: new ringgold pa
99 ford lightning
geez I didn't know that every other car I know of with a stall picks up mph when locking it. I know on my lightning I have that sucker locked 2nd gear 20mph on and she would roll out.
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From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
They will definitely pick mph on the back end with the converter fully locked. These normally never go into full lock up though. They rather target a slip rate. Depending on throttle and rpm the amount of slip is different. It is a closed loop strategy. Later on they did start doing a much more noticeable lock in but it is still a controlled slip. That is why at high loads they open it up. To much energy for it to be slipping. Like I said though they changed things so much over the years it might lock up in the later versions. Dodge does lock up on these but they do have tq limiters that will simply open it up completely.
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From: new ringgold pa
99 ford lightning
thanks for info perhaps I can get a spare tcu with one locking for the track. see that's the pain with these cars a lot left in tuning that would pick up gains and hp one has vs adding parts to gain the hp. My buddy gained almost 2mph by locking his convertor early on his ls1 heavy turbo buick.
