Becker/obx/ebay long tube headers
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 837
Likes: 25
From: seattle
1990 300ce supercharged and intercooled
It is simply tooling costs and sales volume. So if I build a set of headers from scratch. Depending on the setup out of stainless steel it runs about 1500-2000 in materials plus around 2000 in labor or more. Now this is for one off flanges, loss in materials in the prototype and decent slip on collectors. And decent mandrel bends. It can be triple the materials cost if I use really nices stuff. I am also paying a little to much due to the volume I do. Of course I could reduce costs if I was a big time manufacturer. Say half. Use weld on collectors will reduce cost. Thinner pipe will reduce cost etc. etc.
But back to production headers. Now you have to jig that setup to reproduce it. Say. A 1000 dollars to do that maybe less. So your 1st set and jigged is around 5k.
Now if get them cnc'd that costs more for the 1st set of reproduction.
So now you want to make some and sell them. Materials costs are lower the more I make and so one and all that upfront cost is static. But I have to recover it. SO how many am I going to make and sell at one time. Maybe 50 at the most for any given Mercedes because I may only sell 2-3 sets a year or maybe 10.
Or you have a chevy or a ford that you do the same for and sell 100+ sets a year for or more. I have the same upfront costs and way higher production run numbers. I am going to have to charge less per to recover my expenses.
Even if you are copying someone elses product you still have to jig it up and scan it etc.
But back to production headers. Now you have to jig that setup to reproduce it. Say. A 1000 dollars to do that maybe less. So your 1st set and jigged is around 5k.
Now if get them cnc'd that costs more for the 1st set of reproduction.
So now you want to make some and sell them. Materials costs are lower the more I make and so one and all that upfront cost is static. But I have to recover it. SO how many am I going to make and sell at one time. Maybe 50 at the most for any given Mercedes because I may only sell 2-3 sets a year or maybe 10.
Or you have a chevy or a ford that you do the same for and sell 100+ sets a year for or more. I have the same upfront costs and way higher production run numbers. I am going to have to charge less per to recover my expenses.
Even if you are copying someone elses product you still have to jig it up and scan it etc.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,226
Likes: 24
Mercedes
I had my secondary cats re-installed. So now I have:
OBX headers -> race cats -> stock secondaries/resonator/muffler
Now it's super quiet!! Shocking how much the secondary cats quieted it down.
Still pulls really hard, even though it's really quiet.
On cold start the car idles a bit more coarse (comes with long tubes), so I'm going to install some flex pipe installed which should help smooth it out.
Overall very happy.
OBX headers -> race cats -> stock secondaries/resonator/muffler
Now it's super quiet!! Shocking how much the secondary cats quieted it down.
Still pulls really hard, even though it's really quiet.
On cold start the car idles a bit more coarse (comes with long tubes), so I'm going to install some flex pipe installed which should help smooth it out.
Overall very happy.
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,517
Likes: 95
From: NZ
2004 E55 AMG, 2006 CLS63, 2004 ML55, 2014 E350 sport
It is simply tooling costs and sales volume. So if I build a set of headers from scratch. Depending on the setup out of stainless steel it runs about 1500-2000 in materials plus around 2000 in labor or more. Now this is for one off flanges, loss in materials in the prototype and decent slip on collectors. And decent mandrel bends. It can be triple the materials cost if I use really nices stuff. I am also paying a little to much due to the volume I do. Of course I could reduce costs if I was a big time manufacturer. Say half. Use weld on collectors will reduce cost. Thinner pipe will reduce cost etc. etc.
But back to production headers. Now you have to jig that setup to reproduce it. Say. A 1000 dollars to do that maybe less. So your 1st set and jigged is around 5k.
Now if get them cnc'd that costs more for the 1st set of reproduction.
So now you want to make some and sell them. Materials costs are lower the more I make and so one and all that upfront cost is static. But I have to recover it. SO how many am I going to make and sell at one time. Maybe 50 at the most for any given Mercedes because I may only sell 2-3 sets a year or maybe 10.
Or you have a chevy or a ford that you do the same for and sell 100+ sets a year for or more. I have the same upfront costs and way higher production run numbers. I am going to have to charge less per to recover my expenses.
Even if you are copying someone elses product you still have to jig it up and scan it etc.
But back to production headers. Now you have to jig that setup to reproduce it. Say. A 1000 dollars to do that maybe less. So your 1st set and jigged is around 5k.
Now if get them cnc'd that costs more for the 1st set of reproduction.
So now you want to make some and sell them. Materials costs are lower the more I make and so one and all that upfront cost is static. But I have to recover it. SO how many am I going to make and sell at one time. Maybe 50 at the most for any given Mercedes because I may only sell 2-3 sets a year or maybe 10.
Or you have a chevy or a ford that you do the same for and sell 100+ sets a year for or more. I have the same upfront costs and way higher production run numbers. I am going to have to charge less per to recover my expenses.
Even if you are copying someone elses product you still have to jig it up and scan it etc.
I agree with you if you are making them, and in America or something similar.
These products in discussion in this thread are all made in china. They do not even cost a quarter of the asking price for them for to make.
I got quotes for the SS copys for less than 300USD off alibaba. And others on here were claiming even less without cats etc etc.
They can make these things for next to nothing.
No matter which way you swing it these made in china MB headers are overpriced on ebay. You guys need to get together and get a GB going with an alibaba supplier or similar!
Im a SS welder myself so I know whats up.
There is no way in hell im paying anywhere near what this lot want for these knock offs. But hey I can make my own so I can see everyone elses perspective as well.
Last edited by austingtir; Dec 8, 2015 at 11:47 PM.
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W211 E55 AMG
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2007 Mercedes E63 AMG
E55 has all the cheaper parts. 
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From: Earth, USA, Atlanta, GA
E55
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,226
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Mercedes
I was having driveability problems with my Eurocharged tune, so I tried reflashing back to stock and now my car drives like a million bucks. No more bucking, surging, or chunky idle.
Although now I have ECU codes reporting the race cats are under efficiency. Not surprising since they're only 200 cell cats and consensus is that 300 cell are needed. In hindsight I should have left off the race cats and used only the secondaries (which I now have re-installed due to exhaust stink and noise).
I'll try coding out the secondary sensors. I could remove the sensors and put my new widebands in their place, but it would be better to have them before the race cats.
I'm also going to add some turbo flexpipe, and see if it helps with the rough idle on cold start.
Although now I have ECU codes reporting the race cats are under efficiency. Not surprising since they're only 200 cell cats and consensus is that 300 cell are needed. In hindsight I should have left off the race cats and used only the secondaries (which I now have re-installed due to exhaust stink and noise).
I'll try coding out the secondary sensors. I could remove the sensors and put my new widebands in their place, but it would be better to have them before the race cats.
I'm also going to add some turbo flexpipe, and see if it helps with the rough idle on cold start.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,052
Likes: 972
From: MBworld
bone stock E55 AMG
I was having driveability problems with my Eurocharged tune, so I tried reflashing back to stock and now my car drives like a million bucks. No more bucking, surging, or chunky idle.
Although now I have ECU codes reporting the race cats are under efficiency. Not surprising since they're only 200 cell cats and consensus is that 300 cell are needed. In hindsight I should have left off the race cats and used only the secondaries (which I now have re-installed due to exhaust stink and noise).
I'll try coding out the secondary sensors. I could remove the sensors and put my new widebands in their place, but it would be better to have them before the race cats.
I'm also going to add some turbo flexpipe, and see if it helps with the rough idle on cold start.
Although now I have ECU codes reporting the race cats are under efficiency. Not surprising since they're only 200 cell cats and consensus is that 300 cell are needed. In hindsight I should have left off the race cats and used only the secondaries (which I now have re-installed due to exhaust stink and noise).
I'll try coding out the secondary sensors. I could remove the sensors and put my new widebands in their place, but it would be better to have them before the race cats.
I'm also going to add some turbo flexpipe, and see if it helps with the rough idle on cold start.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,681
Likes: 39
From: San Diego
E55
Metal in the shape of Chevy headers is no different than metal in the shape of Mercedes headers.
I could accept a higher price if there was a real reason for it. "Mercedes tax" is not a legitimate reason for an increase in price of metal tubes. But I do think you're right that it's unlikely we'll see prices less than $1k.
I could accept a higher price if there was a real reason for it. "Mercedes tax" is not a legitimate reason for an increase in price of metal tubes. But I do think you're right that it's unlikely we'll see prices less than $1k.
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From: West
2005 E55 Wagon
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Mercedes
No new info.
Be sure you can pass emissions inspection!!! If you're in California it will be very challenging. The included race cats are not sufficient to keep the ECU happy, and it'll throw codes about the cats under efficiency so you'll have to use fowler adapters or use DAS and disable the rear o2 sensors.
Be sure you can pass emissions inspection!!! If you're in California it will be very challenging. The included race cats are not sufficient to keep the ECU happy, and it'll throw codes about the cats under efficiency so you'll have to use fowler adapters or use DAS and disable the rear o2 sensors.
Last edited by JoeNobody; Jan 15, 2016 at 02:43 PM.
