How do I eliminate the 18psi limp mode with my 180/77
04-05-2017, 07:13 AM
#26
Senior Member
looking at your under hood pic - what are the 2 intercoolers you have now in your setup -- and are they post factory intercooler or pre ? --- looks like a good quality setup - thx
04-05-2017, 05:04 PM
#27
Super Member
The dual intercoolers are post factory intercooler. As I stated, I will (already have) remove the factory intercooler. The set-up in that picture is not what I ran recently with the data log I posted in this thread. (same intercoolers and meth/water 7gph nozzles though)
My new set up is totally different. I will start a thread soon and share the love. Changes?
=Bigger twin intercoolers
=Factory intercooler removal
=Re-designed surge tank modifications. Laminar flow, laminar flow..
=True welded intercooler pipes (not the hack job shown in pic)
=Intake......like ram air intake. Nothing like anyone has done before.
=Twin 10 gph post intercooler nozzles (7 gph shown)
=Racing stickers (+20hp)
=?
=?
04-05-2017, 05:42 PM
#28
Senior Member
The dual intercoolers are post factory intercooler. As I stated, I will (already have) remove the factory intercooler. The set-up in that picture is not what I ran recently with the data log I posted in this thread. (same intercoolers and meth/water 7gph nozzles though)
My new set up is totally different. I will start a thread soon and share the love. Changes?
=Bigger twin intercoolers
=Factory intercooler removal
=Re-designed surge tank modifications. Laminar flow, laminar flow..
=True welded intercooler pipes (not the hack job shown in pic)
=Intake......like ram air intake. Nothing like anyone has done before.
=Twin 10 gph post intercooler nozzles (7 gph shown)
=Racing stickers (+20hp)
=?
=?
My new set up is totally different. I will start a thread soon and share the love. Changes?
=Bigger twin intercoolers
=Factory intercooler removal
=Re-designed surge tank modifications. Laminar flow, laminar flow..
=True welded intercooler pipes (not the hack job shown in pic)
=Intake......like ram air intake. Nothing like anyone has done before.
=Twin 10 gph post intercooler nozzles (7 gph shown)
=Racing stickers (+20hp)
=?
=?
Must say that is the busiest engine bay I've seen so far. It must be like an oven under the bonnet. I'd chuck all that garbage and run two air intake pipes with filters outside engine bay. Less is more.
04-06-2017, 12:46 AM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
You are talking about head lifting. Heads lift from detonation and preignition. Total combustion pressure gets to be 10 times normal under detonation.
Is the engine detonating?
Is the engine detonating?
04-06-2017, 10:21 AM
#30
Super Member
So is this going to be like ram air intake or like nothing anyone has done before? lol Yes and Yes. There is a section on the hood that is a near zero pressure area. No hacking required. It as of yet, has not been utilized. lol?
Must say that is the busiest engine bay I've seen so far. Hood stays closed when I drive. Do you leave yours open while driving? It must be like an oven under the bonnet. That assumption makes no sense. How so? Because there is extra intercoolers? lol I'd chuck all that garbage and run two air intake pipes with filters outside engine bay. Less is more. What garbage? The intercoolers? So a "cold air intake" will fix the IAT problem? I ask because the filters in the pic are placed in front of the radiator pass through vents? Hamsters eat their young for a reason, you know.
Must say that is the busiest engine bay I've seen so far. Hood stays closed when I drive. Do you leave yours open while driving? It must be like an oven under the bonnet. That assumption makes no sense. How so? Because there is extra intercoolers? lol I'd chuck all that garbage and run two air intake pipes with filters outside engine bay. Less is more. What garbage? The intercoolers? So a "cold air intake" will fix the IAT problem? I ask because the filters in the pic are placed in front of the radiator pass through vents? Hamsters eat their young for a reason, you know.
04-06-2017, 10:52 AM
#31
Super Member
If it was detonating, the data log would show it. If it was pre-ignition, the data log would show it. This engine would of come apart driving it WOT for over a mile if that was the case.
So let me take a moment and correct the heads "lifting" quote. There seems to be a spot on the block that is allowing pressure to escape. (after further inspection) I'm not using nitrous, nor have enough hp to cause ARP studs to stretch. lol
My engine temps would start climbing to 206-223 degrees half way through the 3/4 mile mark. This has happened before and we assumed the factory bolts were stretching (was not data logging at the time)....so I replaced the factory bolts with ARP studs. I was putting a gallon of water in the reservoir between runs. As you can see, it looks pretty on the side of my car. lol
04-06-2017, 11:17 AM
#32
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thanks for the clarification.
Detonation and preignition are two different things as I am sure you know. There are some ups and downs on the spark advance log and I can't be sure from here if that line is a result of tuned steps or if the ecu is advancing under tune and then pulling due to knock sensor input.
If you are having meth-water blow out at the spark event then that could contribute to a bit of off-cycle pressure (piston still coming up and there is more pressure than normal).
Are there cometic or other mls type gaskets for the m113k?
Yes, I can clearly see the coolant. Double plus ungood.
Yes, I agree. A mile is a long time Tom be at wot. A lot happens the engineers did not plan for, especially at a higher power level. With the free standing cylinders (wait, is this a sleeved block? - can't see other posts from this box) cylinder deform at higher combustion pressures would not move outside block wall.
Yes u are also running enough meth water to stave off detonation, but I suppose there could still be some hot spot detonation.
Please do follow up on the headlift. You may have found a new failure point.
Detonation and preignition are two different things as I am sure you know. There are some ups and downs on the spark advance log and I can't be sure from here if that line is a result of tuned steps or if the ecu is advancing under tune and then pulling due to knock sensor input.
If you are having meth-water blow out at the spark event then that could contribute to a bit of off-cycle pressure (piston still coming up and there is more pressure than normal).
Are there cometic or other mls type gaskets for the m113k?
Yes, I can clearly see the coolant. Double plus ungood.
Yes, I agree. A mile is a long time Tom be at wot. A lot happens the engineers did not plan for, especially at a higher power level. With the free standing cylinders (wait, is this a sleeved block? - can't see other posts from this box) cylinder deform at higher combustion pressures would not move outside block wall.
Yes u are also running enough meth water to stave off detonation, but I suppose there could still be some hot spot detonation.
Please do follow up on the headlift. You may have found a new failure point.
04-06-2017, 11:51 AM
#33
Senior Member
04-07-2017, 02:30 AM
#34
Super Member
Thanks for the clarification. At this point in time with this project, I'm becoming more of a "hold my beer and watch this" kind of guy. Kinda wanting this damn engine to explode already. I want cool music and special effects when is does, though.
Detonation and preignition are two different things as I am sure you know. There are some ups and downs on the spark advance log and I can't be sure from here if that line is a result of tuned steps or if the ecu is advancing under tune and then pulling due to knock sensor input. I did mention I want cool music playing when it goes, right?
If you are having meth-water blow out at the spark event then that could contribute to a bit of off-cycle pressure (piston still coming up and there is more pressure than normal).14 gph worth of nozzles that I'm using is 10 gph below what is required for my set up. Pretty cool info though! I would like to take a moment and mention I want special effects added when the engine goes nuclear. Like, glitter and sparkles everywhere kinda effects.
Are there cometic or other mls type gaskets for the m113k? All I could find is factory gaskets. Found out there was a bulletin on sealant application on some blocks, though. Figures.
Yes, I can clearly see the coolant. Double plus ungood. Agreed. lol
Yes, I agree. A mile is a long time Tom be at wot. A lot happens the engineers did not plan for, especially at a higher power level. With the free standing cylinders (wait, is this a sleeved block? - can't see other posts from this box) cylinder deform at higher combustion pressures would not move outside block wall. Darton sleeved with Mahl pistons.
Yes u are also running enough meth water to stave off detonation, but I suppose there could still be some hot spot detonation. GLITTER AND SPARKLES AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE.
Please do follow up on the headlift. You may have found a new failure point.Nah, just a warped block. Heads/Studs/Gasket are fine. Guess what stopped the pressure from blowing past the gaskets at high speeds? Bars brand carbon fiber head gasket additive. I attempted to blow the motor and in return caused a constant pressure blow by that pressurized through the coolant reservoir. $45 of unicorn tears fixed it. Yeah, I can't make this sh*t up.
Detonation and preignition are two different things as I am sure you know. There are some ups and downs on the spark advance log and I can't be sure from here if that line is a result of tuned steps or if the ecu is advancing under tune and then pulling due to knock sensor input. I did mention I want cool music playing when it goes, right?
If you are having meth-water blow out at the spark event then that could contribute to a bit of off-cycle pressure (piston still coming up and there is more pressure than normal).14 gph worth of nozzles that I'm using is 10 gph below what is required for my set up. Pretty cool info though! I would like to take a moment and mention I want special effects added when the engine goes nuclear. Like, glitter and sparkles everywhere kinda effects.
Are there cometic or other mls type gaskets for the m113k? All I could find is factory gaskets. Found out there was a bulletin on sealant application on some blocks, though. Figures.
Yes, I can clearly see the coolant. Double plus ungood. Agreed. lol
Yes, I agree. A mile is a long time Tom be at wot. A lot happens the engineers did not plan for, especially at a higher power level. With the free standing cylinders (wait, is this a sleeved block? - can't see other posts from this box) cylinder deform at higher combustion pressures would not move outside block wall. Darton sleeved with Mahl pistons.
Yes u are also running enough meth water to stave off detonation, but I suppose there could still be some hot spot detonation. GLITTER AND SPARKLES AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEE.
Please do follow up on the headlift. You may have found a new failure point.Nah, just a warped block. Heads/Studs/Gasket are fine. Guess what stopped the pressure from blowing past the gaskets at high speeds? Bars brand carbon fiber head gasket additive. I attempted to blow the motor and in return caused a constant pressure blow by that pressurized through the coolant reservoir. $45 of unicorn tears fixed it. Yeah, I can't make this sh*t up.
04-07-2017, 02:55 AM
#35
Super Member
Dear pencild*ck, I'm now running 20 lbs of boost from the factory blower while keeping IATs lower than you can dream of with your set up (please post a mile run at WOT). Guess what my 20 lbs of boost is compared to your $9000 Weistec 20 lbs of boost? Well, 20 lbs of boost.....of course. I will walk all over you on cooling the M113K. I have more money invested in these intercoolers and set ups than you spent on your overpriced blower. Why? Because being told it can't be done is not good enough me. The final intercooler system that I will share will be cheaper than the money you might of spent on a online application for a mail order bride.
Is the application for mail order brides more than $800? If it isn't, my bad. Congratulations on the marriage, though.
04-07-2017, 03:55 AM
#36
Senior Member
Why are you so angry, fella? 
43 as well, strong heart? lol
Your air intake is inadequate and that's the end of it. Keep chasing IATs.
43 as well, strong heart? lol Your air intake is inadequate and that's the end of it. Keep chasing IATs.
04-07-2017, 04:08 AM
#37
Super Member
Why are you so angry, fella? 43 as well, strong heart? lol Uh.....what? I love banter, brah. But this is your counter? Take the helmet off and spit out the crayons, little man.
Your air intake is inadequate and that's the end of it. Keep chasing IATs. Twin 3" pipes to a 3.5" (90mm) throttle body is inadequate? Apparently you suck at math and physics as well.
43 as well, strong heart? lol Uh.....what? I love banter, brah. But this is your counter? Take the helmet off and spit out the crayons, little man. Your air intake is inadequate and that's the end of it. Keep chasing IATs. Twin 3" pipes to a 3.5" (90mm) throttle body is inadequate? Apparently you suck at math and physics as well.
04-07-2017, 04:22 AM
#38
Super Member
I was looking forward to your responses and enlightenment, alex. I guess we will catch up later.
Last edited by EREBUS; 04-07-2017 at 04:53 AM.
04-07-2017, 10:36 AM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, please do keep us posted. Block warp due to sleeves? Bad surfacing when sleeves were brought down?
That's alot of meth-water.
Excited about the new intercooler idea. I spent that much on a single pass.
That's alot of meth-water.
Excited about the new intercooler idea. I spent that much on a single pass.
04-07-2017, 01:08 PM
#40
Senior Member
#1. Do you have any clue 1) what material those micky mouse size filters are made of and 2) how much BHP per square cm/inch this material flows?
A 3" pipe, placed behind a filter that cannot flow sufficient amount of air, is largely useless. You might as well go with a 10" pipe, it will have the same effect.
#2. Where do your filters get the air from?
They are sandwiched in one of the hottest areas of the car and have literally no room around them. It's a conical filter and the surface area is it's throughoutput. If you limit it, it will inevitably flow less air thus starving your car of air, especially at the top end when you need all the power you can make. I know how important it is, I'm building for 1.5 mile runs myself.
#3. The money you spent on rads and intercoolers to deal with the heat after it already happened would have been better spent on preventing the problem from occuring in the first place, i.e. moving adequately sized filters outside. Hey, it's way cheaper as well. And no, not behind the grille - that would defeat the purpose for the radiator behind it.
#4. Calling your setup "garbage" was a bit harsh - I apologise for my choice of words.
The air that passed your radiators has effectively nowhere to go. It is designed to be dissipated in the tunnel but you've removed that option by placing all that... "stuff" on top of your engine. This is just common knowledge. Buying and reading a book on air flow is cheaper than throwing money away purposelessly. I'm sorry again if by suggesting it, I have hurt the feelings.
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EREBUS (04-09-2017)
04-07-2017, 03:12 PM
#42
Senior Member
Who runs 20 psi? At what RPM? I believe Erebus said he "should" hit 20 psi when he remove the factory intercooler. His graphs also show that his boost drops as the RPM increases.
04-07-2017, 03:34 PM
#43
04-09-2017, 12:29 AM
#44
Super Member
Well, please do keep us posted. Block warp due to sleeves? Bad surfacing when sleeves were brought down? Both good questions. I have beaten this engine to a bloody pulp, honestly. I have hit multiple 260+ degree temps during a few 1 mile runs. The origins of this engine qualified for the bulletin of adding sealer to head gaskets to avoid this. Mercedes knew of this problem, actually. (I have become good friends with a Mercedes Tech from all the cars I bring into the dealership for warranty repairs)
That's alot of meth-water. Per rpm/displacement/boost.....I'm to use 24 gph of nozzles!
Excited about the new intercooler idea. I spent that much on a single pass. Since most of the info posted in forums is 75% B.S.........I will post all data to back up my claims.(not trying to sell this. just need to be transparent before someone starts hacking their car all to hell.) My newest intercooler system required some major hacking to the firewall. I need to re-install my smaller version and test the difference!
That's alot of meth-water. Per rpm/displacement/boost.....I'm to use 24 gph of nozzles!
Excited about the new intercooler idea. I spent that much on a single pass. Since most of the info posted in forums is 75% B.S.........I will post all data to back up my claims.(not trying to sell this. just need to be transparent before someone starts hacking their car all to hell.) My newest intercooler system required some major hacking to the firewall. I need to re-install my smaller version and test the difference!
04-09-2017, 01:18 AM
#45
Super Member
Erebus, I already said enough in my very first post. I guess you were too busy bigging yourself up to notice. I blame the vino. You give a W.O.P fermented grape juice and all hell breaks loose?
#1. Do you have any clue 1) what material those micky mouse size filters are made of and 2) how much BHP per square cm/inch this material flows? Agreed. But, I'm about to go old school on your ***umption. Years ago (over a decade), a older gentleman walks up to me in a "drag and brag" event with my E55 and laughs at my MASSIVE DIESEL filter on my W210. He said: "son, we raced with panty hose as a filter on cars with hp this sedan wished it had"
I haven't raced with real filters since. No joke.
A 3" pipe, placed behind a filter that cannot flow sufficient amount of air, is largely useless. You might as well go with a 10" pipe, it will have the same effect. See above post
#2. Where do your filters get the air from? From the lungs of Jesus.
They are sandwiched in one of the hottest areas of the car and have literally no room around them. It's a conical filter and the surface area is it's throughoutput. If you limit it, it will inevitably flow less air thus starving your car of air, especially at the top end when you need all the power you can make. I know how important it is, I'm building for 1.5 mile runs myself. The dyno gave me 9 rwhp once I removed the intake filters and pipes midway. You have to factor moving air at higher speeds and pressurization in the engine compartment at speeds above 100 mph, though. This car was bought for the mile events. I have data on racing this type of event that would save you thousands if you just asked. Just say'in.
#3. The money you spent on rads and intercoolers to deal with the heat after it already happened would have been better spent on preventing the problem from occuring in the first place, i.e. moving adequately sized filters outside. Hey, it's way cheaper as well. And no, not behind the grille - that would defeat the purpose for the radiator behind it. Let's just say what you just stated was true (it's not). I'm proving my IAT's are lower than anything out there for the M113K, though? Are you stating a "cold air" intake will solve our factory intercooler insufficiency? You don't actually believe that, do you? Physics? Heat transfer? Diminishing returns?
#4. Calling your setup "garbage" was a bit harsh - I apologise for my choice of words. The air that passed your radiators has effectively nowhere to go. It is designed to be dissipated in the tunnel but you've removed that option by placing all that... "stuff" on top of your engine. It wasn't harsh at all. This is the internet, man. The moment I get butt hurt over someone's right of an opinion, I need to get the hell off the interweb and adopt a damn cat.
This is just common knowledge. Buying and reading a book on air flow is cheaper than throwing money away purposelessly. I'm sorry again if by suggesting it, I have hurt the feelings. I ran near 19lbs of boost in 89 degree weather and only pulled 3 degrees of timing in over a mile at WOT @ 14 degrees above ambient. I have so much data on these systems that it will make your head spin. (I use 3 different sections of boost monitoring to find my defficiency in the system) As I stated before, commercial HVAC books helped me more with this system than anything else. Not that it really matters, but my engine was overheating during the last 1/4 mile of the race without effecting my IAT's.
I blame the vino. You give a W.O.P fermented grape juice and all hell breaks loose?#1. Do you have any clue 1) what material those micky mouse size filters are made of and 2) how much BHP per square cm/inch this material flows? Agreed. But, I'm about to go old school on your ***umption. Years ago (over a decade), a older gentleman walks up to me in a "drag and brag" event with my E55 and laughs at my MASSIVE DIESEL filter on my W210. He said: "son, we raced with panty hose as a filter on cars with hp this sedan wished it had"
I haven't raced with real filters since. No joke.
A 3" pipe, placed behind a filter that cannot flow sufficient amount of air, is largely useless. You might as well go with a 10" pipe, it will have the same effect. See above post
#2. Where do your filters get the air from? From the lungs of Jesus.
They are sandwiched in one of the hottest areas of the car and have literally no room around them. It's a conical filter and the surface area is it's throughoutput. If you limit it, it will inevitably flow less air thus starving your car of air, especially at the top end when you need all the power you can make. I know how important it is, I'm building for 1.5 mile runs myself. The dyno gave me 9 rwhp once I removed the intake filters and pipes midway. You have to factor moving air at higher speeds and pressurization in the engine compartment at speeds above 100 mph, though. This car was bought for the mile events. I have data on racing this type of event that would save you thousands if you just asked. Just say'in.
#3. The money you spent on rads and intercoolers to deal with the heat after it already happened would have been better spent on preventing the problem from occuring in the first place, i.e. moving adequately sized filters outside. Hey, it's way cheaper as well. And no, not behind the grille - that would defeat the purpose for the radiator behind it. Let's just say what you just stated was true (it's not). I'm proving my IAT's are lower than anything out there for the M113K, though? Are you stating a "cold air" intake will solve our factory intercooler insufficiency? You don't actually believe that, do you? Physics? Heat transfer? Diminishing returns?
#4. Calling your setup "garbage" was a bit harsh - I apologise for my choice of words.
The air that passed your radiators has effectively nowhere to go. It is designed to be dissipated in the tunnel but you've removed that option by placing all that... "stuff" on top of your engine. It wasn't harsh at all. This is the internet, man. The moment I get butt hurt over someone's right of an opinion, I need to get the hell off the interweb and adopt a damn cat. This is just common knowledge. Buying and reading a book on air flow is cheaper than throwing money away purposelessly. I'm sorry again if by suggesting it, I have hurt the feelings.
I ran near 19lbs of boost in 89 degree weather and only pulled 3 degrees of timing in over a mile at WOT @ 14 degrees above ambient. I have so much data on these systems that it will make your head spin. (I use 3 different sections of boost monitoring to find my defficiency in the system) As I stated before, commercial HVAC books helped me more with this system than anything else. Not that it really matters, but my engine was overheating during the last 1/4 mile of the race without effecting my IAT's.
04-09-2017, 01:50 AM
#46
Super Member
This is like to say 'my car made 800bhp on a dyno'. What he is saying is that the boost is there....that's all. In a controlled environment. I want to take you seriously. No, really.....I do. I'm showing data during a race. What's "controlled" of that? lol In third gear. Uh, 4th gear would show accurate hp (1 to 1). 3rd gear would be sh*tty. Are you attempting sarcasim or stumbling on confusion? Again, I'm really trying hard to take you serious....
Who runs 20 psi? This guy. I stated I removed the factory intercooler and gained boost. (1.5 psi, actually) You're reading this thread.....right? Then again, I could just use the original map position and show bullsh*t boost figures before my twin intercoolers. You wouldn't do that, would you? At what RPM? My boost is in my data log. That I posted in this thread. My 20lbs of boost statement was just a few posts back......to a reply to your post? I believe Erebus said he "should" hit 20 psi when he remove the factory intercooler. His graphs also show that his boost drops as the RPM increases. Okay, I'm done. Do you data log at all? Do you know how the factory supercharger works with bypass valve? Do you know how your supercharger works? Do you believe we keep our boost all the way through the gears? You know boost is a measure of restriction..........right?
Who runs 20 psi? This guy. I stated I removed the factory intercooler and gained boost. (1.5 psi, actually) You're reading this thread.....right? Then again, I could just use the original map position and show bullsh*t boost figures before my twin intercoolers. You wouldn't do that, would you? At what RPM? My boost is in my data log. That I posted in this thread. My 20lbs of boost statement was just a few posts back......to a reply to your post? I believe Erebus said he "should" hit 20 psi when he remove the factory intercooler. His graphs also show that his boost drops as the RPM increases. Okay, I'm done. Do you data log at all? Do you know how the factory supercharger works with bypass valve? Do you know how your supercharger works? Do you believe we keep our boost all the way through the gears? You know boost is a measure of restriction..........right?
Last edited by EREBUS; 04-09-2017 at 02:36 AM.
04-09-2017, 10:44 AM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
That is a bunch of fluid. Wow.
I assume if if you really wanted to the intercooler could just be replaced by something that correctly directs the air to your top mounts as smoothly as possible.
Germans and their damn rear mount intakes. Restricts the room, I am sure , for how you want to get the air out forge bottom of the sc into the top mounts.
I assume if if you really wanted to the intercooler could just be replaced by something that correctly directs the air to your top mounts as smoothly as possible.
Germans and their damn rear mount intakes. Restricts the room, I am sure , for how you want to get the air out forge bottom of the sc into the top mounts.
Last edited by BC928; 04-09-2017 at 11:23 PM.
01-05-2019, 02:42 PM
#49
Newbie
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1980 450SL, 1993 300CE,2006 E350,2011 ML350 Bluetec, 2000 E430
Very belatedly dragging this thread back to its original source, which was a 722.9 transmission user suffering from the then-fatal case of conductor plate flakiness, I wanted to share the wealth by crossposting the link to my YouTube video of DIY replacing/repairing the conductor plate in a 722.9 car (2006 E350 Sport) getting the car back on the road for around $250.
Step by step here...
Step by step here...
