stephens

audi 1.8t
Sorry for the www.rice.com reference, but I have a 17 year old son who is always garbaging on about turbo supra's and GTR's. I also have firends who are serious and well respected drag racers, specialising in the turbo motors. The concenus is that whilst you can make big power, the motors are not useable in a daily drive car and they require a whole lot of maintenance when used to their limits.

e554jlp

Although I have no experience with superchargers on mercedes engines I am familiar with supercharging in general and I think you guys are forgetting one thing. That is the fact that an E500s engine has a much higher compression than that of an E55 engine. This means that 5psi in an E500 engine would give you much more power than on that of an E55 engine for example. An E500 with 14 psi (if it was able to handle it) would make much more power than the stock e55 engine.

That being said it is not a good idea to make a high compression engine a forced induction high compression engine. So I would still take the E55.

Brandon @ Kleemann

stephens-

Due to the configuration of the AMG intercooler which is beneath the SC in the valley of the V the space is quite tight. Laminova cores are long tubes, the air need to pass over the length of the tube from one side, then exit 180 dgress opposite. The tube is usually inside a bore with two slots, one above and one below. The area of the tubes required to effectively cool that kind of CFM will never fit in the space available. You could fit some amount of tubes in the space but it would be at the expense of pressure drop and ineffeiceny. You would be no better off than before.

If the unit were flipped over on the other hand - wait, WE do that

Optimizing the existing cooler setup, outside the heat exchanger core in the manifold is the only place to go.

James F Cannon-

WED is usually the "test-n-tune" night at Bandimere. 30 clams and your in for the evening- usually 6 to 8 runs is feasible. I think it opens in late March. If you are ever in the area Id be happy to line up with you. Contact info is on our website:

http://www.kleemannusa.com

PS- Bring your helmet! Under 12.99 and they toss you out without one. My experience is there is a .7 second penalty to pay in Denver.

Marcus Frost

Stephens,

While I respect your opinion, and that of your friends, I'd politely like to say there are different strokes for different folks. My Supra doesn't have the torque @ 2000rpm that my E55 does, but @ 4000rpm it's making 300hp, at 5000rpm 500hp, and at 6200rpm 1000hp just about all the way to the 8000rpm redline.

Basically, I still have 4000rpm of very usable power, it just comes in a bit later. Aside from 1st gear I would never notice it, as the Supra's 6-speed gearing is nice and close, and big power is just a downshift away.

Just another side of the coin.

-m

stephens

marcus
500hp at 5000rpm increasing to 1000hp at 6000rpm is not a streetable, broad spread of power in my book. By any objective measure that is lightswitch like power delivery. I think we can agree to disagree on this point.
I would consider 400hp from 3000 increasing to a peak of 600hp at 6500rpm as a good broad spread and far more usable, something that the Supra is never likely to achieve. I don't doubt peak power claims, but really, how can you define this as anything but a very peaky motor that would self implode if run at full boost, full throttle for an extended period i.e an intercontinental autobahn storming session is beyond me.

Ted Baldwin

I've said in the past I do not understand the horsepower claims by some aftermarket manufacturers. To achieve 500+ horsepower with less than 14psi boost and without reinforcing the engine block sounds very questionable.


........the HP claims by Kleemann are pretty much accurate. I don't think Mercedes builds engines that will require reinforcement n order to tolerate a low boos supercharger. I do not know how much experience you have with AMG or Kleemann superchargers. If you look at the W211 E55 supercharger, it is identical to the Kleemann. There are some who believe that Mercedes started buildiing supercharged cars because of Kleemann. A little Danish company was making huge profits by simply slapping on a supercharger to mercedes cars. It is almost as if mercedes wanted to undercut Kleemann and since then Kleemann's sales of V8 superchargers has significantly decreased, prompting the price drop. For me, I find the original question regarding a W211 E500 with a Kleemann vs W211 E55 very interesting because I have had this conversation before and actually seen both cars. the w211 E500 with a Kleemann is at best only a bit less expensive. Prior to the priced drop by Kleemann, it would have been more expensive. In my mind, mercedes has won the fight....and Kleemann knows it and this is why they dropped their price for the V8 supercharger. Notice thart there is no price drop for the V6 supercharger. In todays market, it will make very little sense to me for someone to buy a w211 E500 and get a Kleemann sc rather than buying an E55. But your insunuation that Kleemann's HP claims are bogus is incorrect. You get a before and after Dynograph of your car when you get a Kleemann s/c. The interesting thing is that the W211 E55 actually is not 469 HP or even 493 HP.......the Hp rating for this car has been seriously under rated by mercedes for reasons that are unclear. Having spoken to someone that has installed and dring a Kleen w211 E500 and also driven a w211 E55 extensively and is extremely knowledgeable about cars, the edge goes to w211 E55, but not because Kleemann has questionable HP claims. and not because the W211 E500 with a Kleemann s/c needs engine block reinforcement.


Ted

Marcus Frost

Stephens,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I run 20psi on the street and don't make the 500hp transition like that over 1000rpm, more like 100-150hp. It's a revvy motor, just like any other small displacement motor. The S2000 makes something like 118ft/lbs of torque and needs to be revved out to 9000rpm to get the power out of it's motor, but it's still streetable. Wind it out and it'll give you the power. I like top end and very few cars will give you 1000hp without you sacrificing something in terms of streetability. I keep my revs high and the car feels just fine to me. If I wanted a turbo that spooled in the high 2000-3000rpm range and gave me 500-600hp, that's an easily done option, but I prefer brute ridiculous top end power, plain and simple.

I also have to point out that 400hp @ 3000rpm to 600hp @ 6500rpm is only about 750rpm off the mark for a Supra. With a ~60mm size turbo a Supra can make 400hp by 3750rpm and make 600hp well before 6500rpm with a nice broad powerband going up to 7000-8000rpm depending on supporting mods. That's a good possible 4000rpm+ of good usable power.



370hp by 3750rpm, 650hp by 5500rpm falling off a bit, but staying up there all the way to 6800rpm. Plenty of torque too.

It should be noted that my 5.5L V8 E55 doesn't even make power that quickly in the rev band, and it has almost twice the displacement. At 3750rpm my E55 makes ~290hp and only revs up to 5800rpm where it makes ~370hp. Much narrower power band but is perfectly streetable, mostly due to the intense torque.

-m

Signal

Since that is obviously a W210, why mention it? This thread is in reference to a W211.


the stats on the w211 are vastly different then what you mention.